idigg
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you be a trollin'
ALL beers - extract AND all grain taste bad. Please help me with new suggestions
- Thread starter TheSlash
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Sounds like you be a trollin'
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Sorry no. I started out with extract. The only real variable is the mash.
Opps, let me rephrase
Sowwy nah, I starts with some xtract n da only real varyable is da mash man.
Howzat?
=) Thanks for the bump at least hehe.
I'm still concerned about the tennis ball in the better bottle to help mix/aerate the wort. Some funky off flavors could result from that tennis ball being in there. It has gas inside it to make it bouncy that could be leaching into the wort.
But I can tell you that at bottling time,my IPA's hop load did have a bitter citrusy sort of bite to it. But it's mellowing nicely with age. It was bottled on 7/27,& will be served for our 34th anniversary tomorrow. They've been in the fridge since Tuesday.
So the hop bitterness could be averting your taste buds. Especially if you boiled them longer than,say,late additions of 30 minutes or less. I did my 3 1.5oz hop additions from 25 minutes on down at 8min,30sec intervals. Then dry hopped one week with a total of 1.5oz of the remains of the 3 hops boiled. They were Columbus>Nugget>cascade.
But I'm still concerned about chemicals in the tennis ball. Eliminate that & see if it helps any...
But I can tell you that at bottling time,my IPA's hop load did have a bitter citrusy sort of bite to it. But it's mellowing nicely with age. It was bottled on 7/27,& will be served for our 34th anniversary tomorrow. They've been in the fridge since Tuesday.
So the hop bitterness could be averting your taste buds. Especially if you boiled them longer than,say,late additions of 30 minutes or less. I did my 3 1.5oz hop additions from 25 minutes on down at 8min,30sec intervals. Then dry hopped one week with a total of 1.5oz of the remains of the 3 hops boiled. They were Columbus>Nugget>cascade.
But I'm still concerned about chemicals in the tennis ball. Eliminate that & see if it helps any...
I'm still concerned about the tennis ball in the better bottle to help mix/aerate the wort. Some funky off flavors could result from that tennis ball being in there. It has gas inside it to make it bouncy that could be leaching into the wort.
But I can tell you that at bottling time,my IPA's hop load did have a bitter citrusy sort of bite to it. But it's mellowing nicely with age. It was bottled on 7/27,& will be served for our 34th anniversary tomorrow. They've been in the fridge since Tuesday.
So the hop bitterness could be averting your taste buds. Especially if you boiled them longer than,say,late additions of 30 minutes or less. I did my 3 1.5oz hop additions from 25 minutes on down at 8min,30sec intervals. Then dry hopped one week with a total of 1.5oz of the remains of the 3 hops boiled. They were Columbus>Nugget>cascade.
But I'm still concerned about chemicals in the tennis ball. Eliminate that & see if it helps any...
i assumed the tennis ball is UNDER the better bottle so he can roll the bottle around easier. i don't think a tennis ball could fit through the neck of a better ball.
I don't think a tennis ball can fit in the the neck of a ball...
Since when do balls have necks anyhow?
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
lol. Yes sorry, Better Bottles have an indent in the bottom made for a tennis ball. It really helps you shake the piss out of it.
Maybe I should try a whole leaf hop brew too so less gets to the fermenter...
Looking at ferm chambers now....
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
I'm still concerned about the tennis ball in the better bottle to help mix/aerate the wort. Some funky off flavors could result from that tennis ball being in there. It has gas inside it to make it bouncy that could be leaching into the wort.
But I can tell you that at bottling time,my IPA's hop load did have a bitter citrusy sort of bite to it. But it's mellowing nicely with age. It was bottled on 7/27,& will be served for our 34th anniversary tomorrow. They've been in the fridge since Tuesday.
So the hop bitterness could be averting your taste buds. Especially if you boiled them longer than,say,late additions of 30 minutes or less. I did my 3 1.5oz hop additions from 25 minutes on down at 8min,30sec intervals. Then dry hopped one week with a total of 1.5oz of the remains of the 3 hops boiled. They were Columbus>Nugget>cascade.
But I'm still concerned about chemicals in the tennis ball. Eliminate that & see if it helps any...
To the hops question. The last cenntenial blonde I did, I moved the hop schedule to be a 40, 20, 5. It was only a 25ish ibu beer. under 1 oz cas and 1 oz cent.
None of my beers have been of high IBUs,.
Ok you didnt start out with allgrain but you did go to it
afore you figgered out what the problem was right?
Ron
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
I see what you are getting at =) But honestly people liked my extract ones, and I'd have to say the oatmeal stout was the least bad to me.. I read alot about "extract twang" and thought it could be that.
But mmm really if I had it with the extract, I can rule out anything to do with the water and mash now.
Down to either
My taste buds
Fermentation tempOr maybe grain husks getting to BK? Some could have gotten through the steep bag with the extract. Unlikely I suppose tho.
Does good homebrew taste like most microbrew?
For fermenting temp I see people say most off flavors mellow, and it it doesnt go over 80 it wont be that bad etc...
Well this flavor gets stronger to me. I had a brown ale in the keg for 6 months and still tasted ick.
The sticker on my better bottle never read over 72..
Mmmm
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
Pissgarn - cute, but gets old fast. Hard to read. Consider going back to normal English. jus' sayin'...
Slash - I'm with Yooper on this - you've been critical in all your processes but temp control. That's the ONE THING I did that made the most positive impact to my beers.
I ferment at 62F, in a water bath because...I've measured the temp of my beer in a cold chamber, and it was 10F higher than ambient. I switched to water bath, developed a glycol system, and I park it at 62 for three weeks. My beers have never been better.
FWIW, I did a SweetWater IPA clone and can hardly tell them apart, so YES, your beer should be as good as a microbrew!
Slash - I'm with Yooper on this - you've been critical in all your processes but temp control. That's the ONE THING I did that made the most positive impact to my beers.
I ferment at 62F, in a water bath because...I've measured the temp of my beer in a cold chamber, and it was 10F higher than ambient. I switched to water bath, developed a glycol system, and I park it at 62 for three weeks. My beers have never been better.
FWIW, I did a SweetWater IPA clone and can hardly tell them apart, so YES, your beer should be as good as a microbrew!
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
I saw a post by a guy mentioning he can barely get any head on his beers, and I thought to myseld, wow yea I have to really splash to get a head. One of the main things he was told is that fermentation control is a huge part of that. That and oily glasses, but I always wash mine by hand with just baking soda...
So I think it is down to Ferm control. I'm setting it in a close and just letting it go for a month. I should know better, I just assumed since it was 60 degree's it would be safe.
I also pitch at water temp of 70, so the critical 72 hour window for fermentation is probably sitting pretty high as the yeast kick off fast in that heat. So DUH....
Think I scored a 2.8 nucool fridge on craigs list, time to throw a temp controller on that thing!!!
Thanks all, I think this will fix it. I should have learned by now to just listen to yooper.
P.S> Yooper, I made 2 trips to the UP on my bike this year. Girlfriends family is in Manistique. That bridge is scary on a little sport bike.
wyzazz
Well-Known Member
If you're a handy guy may I suggest the Ebay Aquarium Temp Controller? I've got 2 and they work great!
It is! I crossed it once, in 1983, on a bigger bike (Yamaha 750). At that time, the inside "grooves" were see-through, so the water could drain out I guess. I looked down when I was about 1/2 way over. It scared me so much I never went over it on a bike again!
Bob is from Manistique and we get over there to visit friends about twice a year.
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I have looked at those for a long time. I actually would have ordered one if I wasn't in a rush now to get an octoberfest and a pumpkin beer going. I snagged...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0057APR3I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
they are 1/2 off right now FYI>
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ReverendTenHigh
Well-Known Member
Just read/scanned thru this beast. I'm going with two possible answers and I'll skip the science.
I think I know the taste you are talking about, and it was apparent in my first couple brews I did over a decade ago. I have since eliminated this taste but I still remember it and it is very unappealing. I think the taste you describe happens often in "homebrew" and is something that people that dont drink good homebrew, or have just had a couple buddies from college try to brew beer and drank the results, come to expect from homebrew and accept it. It should not be there, but many people make these same two mistakes and it is very common in beginner homebrew. I think you are referring to the flavor of under-attenuated overly estery beer. So I'm voting that you are;
A: Not controlling your temp properly. I don't know what yeast you are using, but there is a huge difference between "my wort is fermenting at 64 degrees" and "my thermometer on my carboy never goes above 72".
B: (What I think contributes the most to this taste) Underpitching and not properly aerating your wort. I see this time and time again with my brews. When I get too drunk while brewing and can't find my aerator, or lose my fermcap behind the stove so I'm unable to aerate properly with my crappy fishtank bubbler without getting wort mousse all ove the kitchen, my beer suffers greatly from it. I can't stress enough how much proper aeration means to your yeasties.
In summation. Aerate! Dunk yer carboy in some water! Monitor temp! Ice bomb that bad mama and then enjoy "commercial" tasting homebrew.
I think I know the taste you are talking about, and it was apparent in my first couple brews I did over a decade ago. I have since eliminated this taste but I still remember it and it is very unappealing. I think the taste you describe happens often in "homebrew" and is something that people that dont drink good homebrew, or have just had a couple buddies from college try to brew beer and drank the results, come to expect from homebrew and accept it. It should not be there, but many people make these same two mistakes and it is very common in beginner homebrew. I think you are referring to the flavor of under-attenuated overly estery beer. So I'm voting that you are;
A: Not controlling your temp properly. I don't know what yeast you are using, but there is a huge difference between "my wort is fermenting at 64 degrees" and "my thermometer on my carboy never goes above 72".
B: (What I think contributes the most to this taste) Underpitching and not properly aerating your wort. I see this time and time again with my brews. When I get too drunk while brewing and can't find my aerator, or lose my fermcap behind the stove so I'm unable to aerate properly with my crappy fishtank bubbler without getting wort mousse all ove the kitchen, my beer suffers greatly from it. I can't stress enough how much proper aeration means to your yeasties.
In summation. Aerate! Dunk yer carboy in some water! Monitor temp! Ice bomb that bad mama and then enjoy "commercial" tasting homebrew.
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Great post, thank you.
I have noticed my yeast never creates much of a top fermentation, never feared a blow off issue. I assumed it was due to all my beers being fairly low gravity and in a 6gal fermenter. I think my starters were a bit small, but on the last 3 brews it has called for 1 packet dry yeast.. which doesn't require aeration, but doesn't hurt.
So I think fermentation control is the biggest thing here. I know I should step up to pure oxygen sometime soon.
Just dropped $160 on the fridge and controller so this might have to wait another week so I can get an oxygen kit.
Jeesh by the time I figure this taste out I should be pumping out some pro brews.
Thanks Reverend.
ReverendTenHigh
Well-Known Member
No problem, man.
Yeast require oxygen to do their thing the best. I don't think i'd ever say that your wort doesn't need aeration. When you boil yer wort, you are boiling out all the o2, which i'm sure you know by how much research it seems you have done. Even session beers that I do get a good dose of aeration.
I simply use a 10 gal fish tank bubbler. I sanitize some tubing for it, sanitize an air stone, sanitize a piece of copper tubing that i slide over the plastic tubing to help sink 'er to the bottom, and drop er' in for about half hour to 45 minutes. If your scared, you can even throw some vodka or something on the cotton filter that covers the fish tank bubbler air intake. I have since stopped vodkaing this filter and have still never had any problems.
If you go this route, you may want to purchase some fermcap (its like 5 bucks for a bottle that will last you a long time) and this will allow you to bubble for a half hour + without the wort foaming up and out of the fermenter. Just drop a couple 5 or 10 drops in before you start aerating.
If this still doesn't solve the issue, you should just give up and send all your equipment to me and we'll go from there
Yeast require oxygen to do their thing the best. I don't think i'd ever say that your wort doesn't need aeration. When you boil yer wort, you are boiling out all the o2, which i'm sure you know by how much research it seems you have done. Even session beers that I do get a good dose of aeration.
I simply use a 10 gal fish tank bubbler. I sanitize some tubing for it, sanitize an air stone, sanitize a piece of copper tubing that i slide over the plastic tubing to help sink 'er to the bottom, and drop er' in for about half hour to 45 minutes. If your scared, you can even throw some vodka or something on the cotton filter that covers the fish tank bubbler air intake. I have since stopped vodkaing this filter and have still never had any problems.
If you go this route, you may want to purchase some fermcap (its like 5 bucks for a bottle that will last you a long time) and this will allow you to bubble for a half hour + without the wort foaming up and out of the fermenter. Just drop a couple 5 or 10 drops in before you start aerating.
If this still doesn't solve the issue, you should just give up and send all your equipment to me and we'll go from there
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
No problem, man.
Yeast require oxygen to do their thing the best. I don't think i'd ever say that your wort doesn't need aeration. When you boil yer wort, you are boiling out all the o2, which i'm sure you know by how much research it seems you have done. Even session beers that I do get a good dose of aeration.
I simply use a 10 gal fish tank bubbler. I sanitize some tubing for it, sanitize an air stone, sanitize a piece of copper tubing that i slide over the plastic tubing to help sink 'er to the bottom, and drop er' in for about half hour to 45 minutes. If your scared, you can even throw some vodka or something on the cotton filter that covers the fish tank bubbler air intake. I have since stopped vodkaing this filter and have still never had any problems.
If you go this route, you may want to purchase some fermcap (its like 5 bucks for a bottle that will last you a long time) and this will allow you to bubble for a half hour + without the wort foaming up and out of the fermenter. Just drop a couple 5 or 10 drops in before you start aerating.
If this still doesn't solve the issue, you should just give up and send all your equipment to me and we'll go from there
I don't think I could ever skip aerating, just had read something about how dry yeast is made to work in a no oxygen environment, they work differently without o2 present.
Regardless, I did end up ordering the pure oxygen kit from Williamsbrewing. It's something that can really only help the beer.
On this fermentation fridge, would you guys recommend taping the probe to the side of the better bottle and covering it with insulation?
I'm assuming I want to control the wort temp and not the ambient. So if I just set the fridge to 65, the wort could still increase in temp probably faster then the fridge could cool it?
Also, after cooling my wort to 70-75 with my chiller I was going to put it in the fridge to get it down to 60 for pitching. How long can that wort safely sit in the fridge to cool before pitching?
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
As long as you've sanitized properly, and sealed the lid/stopper, there is no danger. You can certainly keep it in the fridge a few hours to chill a bit more before pitching.
And, yes, probe against the fermenter, set at 65 is a better method than setting the fridge to say...58 in ambient, and hoping you're close.
And, yes, probe against the fermenter, set at 65 is a better method than setting the fridge to say...58 in ambient, and hoping you're close.
shanecb
Well-Known Member
Definitely. It's a great way to measure the temperature of the wort and not the ambient air. It's what I do.
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys. Going to brew this weekend and try out these new methods!
If it is just my pitching temp and fermenting control, this should be easy!
If it is just my pitching temp and fermenting control, this should be easy!
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Small update... I brewed Yoopers Dead guy AG Sunday, put it in the new ferm chamber and dropped it to 61. Pitched 2 packets US05 and let it rise to 64.
Its been holding 64 since, and even tho I only put 5gal into a 6.5gal fermenter, this is the first batch I've ever had rise up more than a couple inches. This one actually is coming through the airlock!!!
So I must have had slow, very weak fermentations from either under pitching or just letting it start too warm. Or the fact I used pure oxygen this time.
Either way very impressed so far... I bed this will be my best one yet and could even have a head!
Thanks guys, I'll update when I rack it.
Its been holding 64 since, and even tho I only put 5gal into a 6.5gal fermenter, this is the first batch I've ever had rise up more than a couple inches. This one actually is coming through the airlock!!!
So I must have had slow, very weak fermentations from either under pitching or just letting it start too warm. Or the fact I used pure oxygen this time.
Either way very impressed so far... I bed this will be my best one yet and could even have a head!
Thanks guys, I'll update when I rack it.
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
awesome.
yes, PLEASE keep us posted - this is how we all learn, and share our experiences so others can make better beers as well.
congrats on a successful brew day. Fingers crossed for your finest ever.
yes, PLEASE keep us posted - this is how we all learn, and share our experiences so others can make better beers as well.
congrats on a successful brew day. Fingers crossed for your finest ever.
wyzazz
Well-Known Member
Pah, speak for yerself! I already know all there is to know about brewing.
Seriously though, thanks for reporting back!
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
This is so exciting!@ I had my first blowout. Pitched Sunday evening, fermentation started sometime during the night. Last night 1am I hear a loud pop and run downstairs.
I knew there was yeast in the airlock earlier that day, but was hoping it was slowed, but nope, blew the stopper and airlock out so hard the pressure opened the fridge door. Cleaned it and replaced, only to find it FILLED with yeast again this morning. So threw a blow off hose on it. Never needed one of those for SURE before.
Is it normal for the airlock to be filled with yeast paste? I thought just foam or beer would get up there.
Side note, the yeast looked great and smelled even better.
I knew there was yeast in the airlock earlier that day, but was hoping it was slowed, but nope, blew the stopper and airlock out so hard the pressure opened the fridge door. Cleaned it and replaced, only to find it FILLED with yeast again this morning. So threw a blow off hose on it. Never needed one of those for SURE before.
Is it normal for the airlock to be filled with yeast paste? I thought just foam or beer would get up there.
Side note, the yeast looked great and smelled even better.
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
Ale yeast are TOP fermenting -so yes, yeast and foam can clog your airlock.
Congrats on needing a blow-off. Many of us start with the blow-off hose and revert to airlocks after the first week or so.
Sounding very good!
Congrats on needing a blow-off. Many of us start with the blow-off hose and revert to airlocks after the first week or so.
Sounding very good!
BierKoning
Active Member
This is definitely a great thread and I'm replying primarily so that I can easily follow!! Please keep us updated on the progress with your new equipment, I'm dying to find out how your beer tastes after all you've been through!
Another thing that caught my eye was using the fridge thermostat to control ferm temps. My primary concern before I started brewing was finding a way to control fermentation temps. Here in SoCal it gets really hot in my house with no A/C, and in the garage, where I'm force to brew, it can get upwards of 90F. I am using a re-purposed wine-fridge as a fermentation chamber and it has a built in thermostat that can be set anywhere from 55-67F.
But after reading some posts, is it NOT safe to assume that the temp the fridge is set for is not entirely accurate to the wort temp? It's a small fridge that barely fits the 5gal carboy in there with air-lock, so shouldn't the fridge be strong/accurate enough to keep the carboy and its contents at the temp on the thermostat? Do I really need to upgrade to a Johnson digital temp. controller and just set the fridge as cold as possible?
Another thing that caught my eye was using the fridge thermostat to control ferm temps. My primary concern before I started brewing was finding a way to control fermentation temps. Here in SoCal it gets really hot in my house with no A/C, and in the garage, where I'm force to brew, it can get upwards of 90F. I am using a re-purposed wine-fridge as a fermentation chamber and it has a built in thermostat that can be set anywhere from 55-67F.
But after reading some posts, is it NOT safe to assume that the temp the fridge is set for is not entirely accurate to the wort temp? It's a small fridge that barely fits the 5gal carboy in there with air-lock, so shouldn't the fridge be strong/accurate enough to keep the carboy and its contents at the temp on the thermostat? Do I really need to upgrade to a Johnson digital temp. controller and just set the fridge as cold as possible?
mychalg9
Well-Known Member
Thanks OP for starting this thread, as I have had similar problems and wasn't entirely sure what the problem was caused by. And thanks for all for contributing, especially ReverendTenHigh who made everything seem so obvious. I'll be checking back for updates; good luck OP!
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
After more focused reading, I think I can attribute the following for my issues:
It all started with pitching too warm. The bitter bite I'm tasting is most likely fused alcohols. These are created with warm ferms. Fused alcohols have a "hot" bite. They also destroy head creation, which was probably altering the top fermenting yeast. I had a ton of suspension, not much up top. Probably all the fused alcohols.
I don't think putting the fermenter in my 60 degree closet was the killer. I think it was the fact that I was only cooling to 70-75 area and pitching. Then I would put it into the closet.
I always had activity in mere hours or less. So the yeast got going in a 70+ environment, produced a ton of fused alcohols and kept the beer over 70 for the critical 72 hour window because 60 ambient wasn't enough to bring the temp down.
Cooling the wort to 60 before pitching, then raising to a steady 64 has completely, 100% changed the way my fermentation looks, smells, and acts.
If this beer does not have the off flavor, I will brew one with shaking again instead of the o2, just to make sure it wasn't lack of o2. Highly doubt that was it, especially with the dry yeast though.
I will update.
It all started with pitching too warm. The bitter bite I'm tasting is most likely fused alcohols. These are created with warm ferms. Fused alcohols have a "hot" bite. They also destroy head creation, which was probably altering the top fermenting yeast. I had a ton of suspension, not much up top. Probably all the fused alcohols.
I don't think putting the fermenter in my 60 degree closet was the killer. I think it was the fact that I was only cooling to 70-75 area and pitching. Then I would put it into the closet.
I always had activity in mere hours or less. So the yeast got going in a 70+ environment, produced a ton of fused alcohols and kept the beer over 70 for the critical 72 hour window because 60 ambient wasn't enough to bring the temp down.
Cooling the wort to 60 before pitching, then raising to a steady 64 has completely, 100% changed the way my fermentation looks, smells, and acts.
If this beer does not have the off flavor, I will brew one with shaking again instead of the o2, just to make sure it wasn't lack of o2. Highly doubt that was it, especially with the dry yeast though.
I will update.
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
I just had to quote this again.
Also, I had a "wet" ale at Arcadia Brewing Co. last night that used hops picked on a Fri and brewed with the following Tuesday and I absolutely loved it. So I think I prefer fresh hops.
ReverendTenHigh
Well-Known Member
I remember my first blow off. It came shortly after I started aerating my wort It is distincly alien in comparison to a shaken/rocked carboy fermentation and the thick yeast that spews from the top of the carboy still makes me happy every time it happens, despite the cleanup necessary. That means them yeasties are happy and you done a good job.
I think you are referring to fusel alcohols and you probably aren't creating much in the lower 70's range, even when you are pitching warm. You need to go above 80 for that flavor profile to become an issue. Fusel alcohol will taste HOT, kinda like you just took a shot of some ****ty bottom shelf vodka, and it will warm you on the way down.
I'll admit that I am guilty of pitching warm. As a matter of fact, I probably pitch warm 90% of the time. The only time I pitch at appropriate temperature is when the groundwater temp is that cold, beings that I use tapwater & copper tubing to chill my wort, and that doesn't happen unless it is winter here. I usually pitch between 70-75, sometimes even higher, but I always kerplunk immediately into an icebath that cools the wort down while I sleep off the brewday. So yes, the 60 degree ambient is not enough, but the act of pitching warm I do not think is what is causing the issue you describe, although it may contribute to it.
I still think that O2 is your main culprit and pitch rate is secondary. If you are pitching dry yeast, I doubt pitch rate is an issue. I'm not an expert on anything, let a lone dry yeast, but the cell count in one of those packs should be able to handle most things any sane person would be brewing. I've only used dry yeast on a few batches with not so good results, but looking back, i'm certain it was because of lack of aeration, not pitch rate. None of those dry yeast batches got any aeration...just a good ole fashin' shakin'. So we have eliminated pitch rate. I pitch warm often, and sometimes ferment out fast cause i'm in a hurry, keeping the temp in the upper sixties, low seventies. My beer is good. That eliminates pitching warm. What do we have left? o2! I'm super positive that the aeration is what has changed the look, smell, and way your fermentation acts, and in the end, tastes.
Good luck and good job!
It is distincly alien in comparison to a shaken/rocked carboy fermentation and the thick yeast that spews from the top of the carboy still makes me happy every time it happens, despite the cleanup necessary. That means them yeasties are happy and you done a good job. I think you are referring to fusel alcohols and you probably aren't creating much in the lower 70's range, even when you are pitching warm. You need to go above 80 for that flavor profile to become an issue. Fusel alcohol will taste HOT, kinda like you just took a shot of some ****ty bottom shelf vodka, and it will warm you on the way down.
I'll admit that I am guilty of pitching warm. As a matter of fact, I probably pitch warm 90% of the time. The only time I pitch at appropriate temperature is when the groundwater temp is that cold, beings that I use tapwater & copper tubing to chill my wort, and that doesn't happen unless it is winter here. I usually pitch between 70-75, sometimes even higher, but I always kerplunk immediately into an icebath that cools the wort down while I sleep off the brewday. So yes, the 60 degree ambient is not enough, but the act of pitching warm I do not think is what is causing the issue you describe, although it may contribute to it.
I still think that O2 is your main culprit and pitch rate is secondary. If you are pitching dry yeast, I doubt pitch rate is an issue. I'm not an expert on anything, let a lone dry yeast, but the cell count in one of those packs should be able to handle most things any sane person would be brewing. I've only used dry yeast on a few batches with not so good results, but looking back, i'm certain it was because of lack of aeration, not pitch rate. None of those dry yeast batches got any aeration...just a good ole fashin' shakin'. So we have eliminated pitch rate. I pitch warm often, and sometimes ferment out fast cause i'm in a hurry, keeping the temp in the upper sixties, low seventies. My beer is good. That eliminates pitching warm. What do we have left? o2! I'm super positive that the aeration is what has changed the look, smell, and way your fermentation acts, and in the end, tastes.
Good luck and good job!
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Reverend, thanks for the post.
Why do dry yeast manufacturers claim it doesn't need any oxygen then?
Seems like it wouldn't have effected the taste by their claim.
I really hope this beer turns out, but now I have my doubts because I was sure it was the warm pitch and inability to drop the temperature.
At least I know the yeast are healthy! I suppose that is the most important thing.
I'm going to have to pull it from the ferm chamber tomorrow though, will try the icebath thing to keep it at 64 in my closet. It should be about done generating heat anyways.
Bell's is having their homebrew challenge tomorrow and giving away free wort. I really need to use this incase my off flavor isn't gone, as it will let me rule out EVERYTHING before the boil.
Will update.
Why do dry yeast manufacturers claim it doesn't need any oxygen then?
Seems like it wouldn't have effected the taste by their claim.
I really hope this beer turns out, but now I have my doubts because I was sure it was the warm pitch and inability to drop the temperature.
At least I know the yeast are healthy! I suppose that is the most important thing.
I'm going to have to pull it from the ferm chamber tomorrow though, will try the icebath thing to keep it at 64 in my closet. It should be about done generating heat anyways.
Bell's is having their homebrew challenge tomorrow and giving away free wort. I really need to use this incase my off flavor isn't gone, as it will let me rule out EVERYTHING before the boil.
Will update.
ReverendTenHigh
Well-Known Member
what??? thats awesome. what kinds are they giving away? Not that I'm driving to michigan tomorrow...one can dream tho.
As I mentioned before, everyone's environment is different and you just need to figure your's out. Someone could have the exact same dimension closet as you at the exact constant ambient temp, but one is carpeted and the other is not. The carpet will make a big difference. Learn your fermentation environment, which is what it sounds like you are doing! If you are pitching @ 60 and your ambient temp is 60, it might be fine in that closet
Only you will know. I know that mine is not fine at ambient temps so I use the waterbath. Since I pitch warm, I know I need the extra cooling effort to get things down to where they need to be before fermentation starts.I'd avoid waterbathing this one as you could cool it down too much that the yeast won't finish. When I water/ice bath, I stop icing after approximately three days and after five or six, I bring the fermenter out of the bath so the temp does ramp up a bit, allowing a slightly warmer environment for the yeast to clean up the ferment and finish attenuating properly...I think. I really don't know what I'm doing, that is just what i've learned to do over the last 10+ years, and it works for me!
Keep at it. Don't give up! Aerate that Bell's wort! I'm jealous
OP
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TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Thanks Ten.
From Bell's: As mentioned above, the wort will be made with 100-percent Michigan grown pale malt. The initial OE of the base wort will be roughly 12 Plato (about 1.048 gravity), which will yield a knock-out gravity of 13+ Plato (about 1.052 gravity) after the final boil. Left unchanged, the fermentability will result in a beer with approximately 6% ABV.
Again, the wort will be minimally boiled and entirely unhopped, giving you complete freedom with your recipe. However, homebrewers will have to complete the kettle boil on their own systems.
There are no restrictions or style guidelines for the final beer, as long as it uses the base wort provided by Bell’s Brewery Inc. Beers will be judged based on a purely hedonic scale, not formal Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) criteria.
Please submit four (4) bottles of your homebrew made with Bell’s wort. The bottles must be submitted to Bell’s by 9 p.m. Oct. 28 with your entry form and properly identified with the labels provided. Any late entries will not be considered. They can be dropped off at the Bell’s General Store, Attn: Bell’s Homebrew Competition.
The winner gets to brew their recipe with Bell's head brewer and have it on tap at Bells.
Good point on the fact that since it has already been fermenting 5 days I should put it in the closet and just monitor temps, not necessarily ice it unless it needs it. (prob won't)
From Bell's: As mentioned above, the wort will be made with 100-percent Michigan grown pale malt. The initial OE of the base wort will be roughly 12 Plato (about 1.048 gravity), which will yield a knock-out gravity of 13+ Plato (about 1.052 gravity) after the final boil. Left unchanged, the fermentability will result in a beer with approximately 6% ABV.
Again, the wort will be minimally boiled and entirely unhopped, giving you complete freedom with your recipe. However, homebrewers will have to complete the kettle boil on their own systems.
There are no restrictions or style guidelines for the final beer, as long as it uses the base wort provided by Bell’s Brewery Inc. Beers will be judged based on a purely hedonic scale, not formal Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) criteria.
Please submit four (4) bottles of your homebrew made with Bell’s wort. The bottles must be submitted to Bell’s by 9 p.m. Oct. 28 with your entry form and properly identified with the labels provided. Any late entries will not be considered. They can be dropped off at the Bell’s General Store, Attn: Bell’s Homebrew Competition.
The winner gets to brew their recipe with Bell's head brewer and have it on tap at Bells.
Good point on the fact that since it has already been fermenting 5 days I should put it in the closet and just monitor temps, not necessarily ice it unless it needs it. (prob won't)
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Barely got my wort! Ran out 2 people after me. They gave away about 1000g of wort. Got it in the ferm chamber now. Aerated and pitch safale 04. Sitting on 36 hours with no start yet... Going to be an apple pie fall ale. Few cinnamon sticks, all spice, vanilla bean late in the boil. Also steeped some special grains for the buscuit, rasin,burnt sugar, graham cracker flavors. Apple extract to taste if it works out.
Question on Aerating.. how far open do you turn the oxygen? It's the williams Brewing kit. Last time I used a better bottle so I could see when it was bubbling steady. This time was a bucket so I couldnt see, but noticed if I opened 100% it bubbled the wort.
Have the dead guy clone in the closet in a water bath holding about 69-70
Question on Aerating.. how far open do you turn the oxygen? It's the williams Brewing kit. Last time I used a better bottle so I could see when it was bubbling steady. This time was a bucket so I couldnt see, but noticed if I opened 100% it bubbled the wort.
Have the dead guy clone in the closet in a water bath holding about 69-70
BlackJaqueJanaviac
Well-Known Member
I skimmed through the thread.
Did you rule out the possibility that it is just your taste-buds or "in your head?"
I had a friend who insisted that he always preferred someone else's cooking. He would say we could each make a balogna sandwich using the same ingredients and he would prefer the one I made. He admitted it was all in his head though.
Perhaps it's just knowing that it's the beer you made is causing you to notice something. As you stated you're a bit of a perfectionist. Now perhaps you could try cloning a commercial beer then have a buddy serve you both your clone & the commercial beer without you knowing which was which. See if you can pick your's out. Since you'd have a 50-50 chance of picking yours out even if they tasted identical you'd have to repeat this test with different clones, on different days, and mix them up as much as possible.
Sounds like a fun test - invite me over.
Did you rule out the possibility that it is just your taste-buds or "in your head?"
I had a friend who insisted that he always preferred someone else's cooking. He would say we could each make a balogna sandwich using the same ingredients and he would prefer the one I made. He admitted it was all in his head though.
Perhaps it's just knowing that it's the beer you made is causing you to notice something. As you stated you're a bit of a perfectionist. Now perhaps you could try cloning a commercial beer then have a buddy serve you both your clone & the commercial beer without you knowing which was which. See if you can pick your's out. Since you'd have a 50-50 chance of picking yours out even if they tasted identical you'd have to repeat this test with different clones, on different days, and mix them up as much as possible.
Sounds like a fun test - invite me over.
OP
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TheSlash
Well-Known Member
I actually have done some blind taste tests and I've been able to pick it out. I know I'm definitely more picky over it though. And now that I am aware of this flavor I can detect small levels of it in other beers on occasion. Anyone know of another "fusel alcohol" type flavor to test sample?
wyzazz
Well-Known Member
You can get the flavor with almost any young hard liquor (Whiskey, Vodka, Burbon, Cognac) it's a solventy kind of taste/burn.
chairbornrangerx
Well-Known Member
If you need a third party taster let me know, i'm only about 45 minutes from you (i'm in kalamazoo)
I was 49th in line to get my bells worth =)
Brewed mine on Sunday and trying a few new things with it, should come out pretty tasty!
My beers typically have used US-05, and turn out fine, my honey weizen came out with a sour taste, but i attribute that to nearly 4 months in the primary fermenter.
I was 49th in line to get my bells worth =)
Brewed mine on Sunday and trying a few new things with it, should come out pretty tasty!
My beers typically have used US-05, and turn out fine, my honey weizen came out with a sour taste, but i attribute that to nearly 4 months in the primary fermenter.
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