What is happening in my secondaries!?

I'm afraid I'm having a repeat of this incident (MINUS the dumping this time!) https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ba...ing-alcohol-can-infected-but-look-fine-86918/

This time, I am doing the AHB Cannon Ball Stout.
Austin Homebrew Supply

Just like that experience, after 3 weeks in the primary, I tasted it and it was delicious. In fact it really reminded me of Brooklyn Black Chocolate. Somewhat sweet, thick, black, lots of toasted and chocolate flavor.

Also just like that experience, I let it set 3 more weeks in a secondary (again, santizing thoroughly as I went). When I went to bottle last night (roughly the 6 week mark in total) I tasted it and it now was awful! Really the same medicinal/band aid/rubbing alcohol flavor and burn that the barleywine had. Also like that one, this looks beautiful and smells fine. Nothing odd floating in or on it. No real signs of a true infection or anything.

I realize this is a really big beer just like the barleywine and may just need aging, but two things contradict that in my mind. First, after my second attempt at the above barleywine, it tasted great right out of the secondary before bottling. Polar opposite of the first time with the bad taste. Second, where the barleywine recipe flat out states that it should age for 3+ months, this one only says 3 WEEKS, and I'm already at the 6 week mark. Makes me think more aging won't do much.

I guess the only true test is one of time. I will crack one open in a month or so, and if it's still bad, try one the next month until 4 months or so go by and I give up on it at that point. If this batch is actually bad, it makes me want to stop using secondaries since this has happened twice now. I really like how it clears and settles down all the trub and junk in these thick, high OG beers with lots of yeast byproduct and whatnot, but this is potentially getting ridiculous and expensive. I'll report back when I try one in a month or so, but I wanted to get any of your thoughts in the meantime. Hey...at least I didn't dump this one!

I dont ever expect my big beers to taste good until at least a few months.

It is really really difficult to judge a beer in primary OR secondary...It still has to go through a period of carbing and conditioning in the bottle.

I always suggest that people never worry about the taste of a beer in primary or secondary, unless it tastes sorry....

Most of anything else will usually go away with time, unless it's a true off flavor, but you can't really tell and troubleshoot it until you have ruled out that the off flavors are not just green.....

I have a 1.090 Belgian Strong Dark Ale that is 3 months in the bottle and it finally is carbing up and begininng to lose the hot alcohol (read rocket fuel) flavor...

Revvy, funny you mention rocket fuel, thats what my homebrew club calls my apple-goody..

i always taste my beer and mead at many stages in the process. sometimes it is great after 5 days, then it tastez like craop at 3 weeks. then it will end up being great after cooling and keg conditioning. im sure there is an in depth scientific/biological explanation. if you want this explanation, type your post in the brew science forum. if you want to save your brain the trouble, just accept that it will be great when its done.

having said that, i am the most impatient brewer in the world and probably the most paranoid. i freak out every time i take a s.g. reading. i guess i have some experience!

+1 to blackwater. the beers you are making are really big and i would not expect for them to taste perfect at 6 weeks (if i'm reading your post correctly). Just let them go. do you know the temp you fermented at? for that big a beer you may have developed at least some level of fussily alcohol in there (hot alcohol) that will mellow out over time. Let her sit for a month and try it again... my guess is you'll be amazed again.

ezatnova:

What sanitizer are you using for your carboy and racking equipment?
Tap water, well water, or filtered water?

beesy said:

+1 to blackwater. the beers you are making are really big and i would not expect for them to taste perfect at 6 weeks (if i'm reading your post correctly). Just let them go. do you know the temp you fermented at? for that big a beer you may have developed at least some level of fussily alcohol in there (hot alcohol) that will mellow out over time. Let her sit for a month and try it again... my guess is you'll be amazed again.

Click to expand...

Thanks all.

My fermenting temp is a near constant 65 degrees.

Here's to mellowing and tastifying (is that a word!?)

Mad_Milo said:

ezatnova:

What sanitizer are you using for your carboy and racking equipment?
Tap water, well water, or filtered water?

Click to expand...

For sanitizing I've always used Iodophore and hot/warm water. MINIMUM of letting it sit for 5 minutes...sometimes 20 or so.

Well water for sanitizing, bottled for brewing.

Unless you chlorinate your water, you should be good there. Medicinal/band-aids seem to be a tattletale sign.

I remember one of my first big winter warmer style porters had a phenolic flavor when I brewed it from steeped grains and extract in 2006. Had one back in march this year and it's a totally different beer... it tastes great now!

Ethanol actually has a very high flavour threshold. Try mixing a decent vodka with water until you can actually taste it, most people find it quite hard. When you smell/taste something like rubbing alcohol what you are more likely tasting is "higher" alcohols and maybe esters, compounds like acetone (nail varnish remover). These are left in in non-food "alcohols" because it's more costly and not necessary to remove them, hence the distinctive smell.

When you ferment at high gravity yeast produces a lot more of these flavour compounds which have a very low flavour threshold around 2 to 100 mg l-1 , (ester production increases exponentially with an increase in starting gravity). This is what it sounds like has happened to your beer rather than an infection (a high alcohol content would also seriously reduce that risk as long as you got a quick ferment). There are a tonne of other factors which mean that although you may have followed a tried and tested recipe, yours is different. Yeast really starts to struggle at high gravity, it has to cope with high osmotic pressure at the start of fermentation and high ethanol concentration at the end. The effect of every factor is amplified - so slightly differing malt qualities (nitrogen content etc), different mashing regimes, dissolved oxygen, fermentation temperatures, yeast strain, pitching rate, vitality and viability among others will result in big differences in the levels of esters and higher alcohols in the end product.

But saying that it may still come good in the end somehow it usually does with homebrew- and maybe it's just meant to taste like that and you'll get used to it and like it. I hope you get used to the hangovers just as quickly!