what am i doing wrong with liquid yeast?

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Conodor

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use dry yeast and have excellent results. But the last few attempts with liquid it seems my results arent so good.

I did a double batch saturday nite. Put a kit beer in a carboy with dry yeast. Did a ag beer put it in a bucket with liquid yeast.

Both I used a starter. they have sat next to each other. The dry yeast is going insane. The liqid 0 activity. The average temp is 63. I moved the batch upstairs where it sh be in the low 70's.


I had the same results last time I brewed also. The liquid was wyeast oo1. I inl that was the name.

Thanks.
 
How do you know you have no activity in the bucket? Are you watching the airlock? That might not be the best indicator of activity.
 
Save yourself some time, money and worry and stick to dry yeast for most of your beers. I wish someone had told me that when I started brewing. Of course, if you're brewing a Wit, Hefe, Belgian et. al., then you have to go with the more specialized liquid yeasts.

BTW, WL001, Wyeast 1056, Nottingham and S-05 are all the same yeast! Why spend more on a smackpack or vial?
Check out this chart: http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm#Wyeast_vs_WLP
 
Nottingham is equivalent to S-04, the English Strain, not US-05, the Chico strain.

Conodor, what is your process for making a starter? The are LOTS of threads in this forum concerning starters and yeast propogation. Just look at the bottom of this page...
 
Conodor said:
use dry yeast and have excellent results. But the last few attempts with liquid it seems my results arent so good.

I did a double batch saturday nite. Put a kit beer in a carboy with dry yeast. Did a ag beer put it in a bucket with liquid yeast.

Both I used a starter. they have sat next to each other. The dry yeast is going insane. The liqid 0 activity. The average temp is 63. I moved the batch upstairs where it sh be in the low 70's.


I had the same results last time I brewed also. The liquid was wyeast oo1. I inl that was the name.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

You mentioned starters but didn't give details. For one this starters aren't necessary for dry yeast, I've hydrated in warm water 15 min before pitching and had great success. As for the liquid yeast how big is your starter, what's the OG and how long before brew day do you start it?
 
Usually I have great results in my bucket. And a lot of activity by now. I popped a side of the lid off an there was no foam on the top of the wort either.

I used a large mason jar boiled water then when it was room temp.
 
What yeasts, and what was your procedure for making your starter? There are a lot of smart, experienced brewers on this site, but you gotta give them something to work with...
 
Did you check your gravity yet? It's very possible that your bucket may be releasing the CO2 out the top instead of through the airlock. If your SG is lower than your OG, you should be just fine. If the SG hasn't changed, I'd say it is time to repitch.

Also, you said that you had a starter for both types of yeast. As mentioned earlier, dry yeast do not require a starter, only rehydration. With your liquid yeast starter, did you see any signs of fermentation in the starter? Did you have more yeast than you started with? If the answer's no, you may have had a bad batch of yeast in which case you would also want to repitch...
 
When i do a liquid starter, i just put some priming sugar at the bottom of a pyrex measuring cup with a cup or 2 of spring water. You could make a overnight starter with some DME, but i do the sugar method and have had great results because of it.
 
KayaBrew said:
BTW, WL001, Wyeast 1056, Nottingham and S-05 are all the same yeast!
Click to expand...

beerkrump said:
Nottingham is equivalent to S-04, the English Strain, not US-05, the Chico strain.
Click to expand...

I don't think Nottingham is equivalent to either s-05 (Notty is not the Chico strain) or s-04 (Notty is much more attenuative and less estery than s-04). It's profile is closer to s-05, though, at least IMO. Clean, highly attenuating.
 
It was a wee heavy I think the og was 1.015. (At work notes at home). The dry yes it was active. The liquid was hard to tell. Just looked milky.

The lid is a tight seal. If I lightly push lid. It bubbles in the air lock. Must be a bad batch.
 
Liquid yeast can go into shock if it goes through a rapid temperature change. Was your starter the same temperature as your wort. I'd say give it a day or two to wake up on it's own, if it doesn't give it a gentle stir and see if it starts. If all else fail, pitch a pack of dry yeast.



My own preference is dry yeast. I don't mess with a starter or with rehydration of the yeast. I just sprinkle the yeast on top of the wort. I haven't had any problems getting fermentation to start using this method.
 
Ok maybe shocked it. Ill give it another day and pitch some dry yeast if still no results.

Thanks all for the help.
 
Conodor said:
Usually I have great results in my bucket. And a lot of activity by now. I popped a side of the lid off an there was no foam on the top of the wort either.

I used a large mason jar boiled water then when it was room temp.
Click to expand...

Do you mean you just put the liquid yeast in some boiled water? Also, a mason jar is nowhere near the size of starter you need to make for a liquid yeast. The starter should be 1-2 liters.

Mr. Malty Pitching Calculator - The Liquid Yeast Tab
 
No I boiled water. Then let it sit out closed at room temp. When I needed it both the yeast and my (to small) starter were both room temp.


Once I used my wort chiller I pitched the yeast.
 
It sounds like you just rehydrated, not made a starter, if I'm understanding you correctly.

That's exactly what you should do for dry yeast. Rehydrate in boiled and cooled water and pitch into the finished wort. Dry yeast packages have plenty of yeast cells, and that is the recommended way to do it.

For liquid yeast, you should do things a bit differently. You should make a starter. A starter is about a quart of wort, made to an OG of 1.040. That is about a quart of water and 1 cup DME. You boil the water, add the DME and boil it for a few minutes. Cool, and add to a sanitized gallon jug. Add the liquid yeast, and cover with sanitized foil. Shake often, whenever you walk by the container. Then, after two days, it's ready to add to your fresh wort.

I make my starters about two to three days before brewday. The point of a starter is simply to grow more yeast, since there aren't enough yeast cells in a liquid vial to ferment anything above about 1.040 or so.
 
rocketman768 said:
Do you mean you just put the liquid yeast in some boiled water? Also, a mason jar is nowhere near the size of starter you need to make for a liquid yeast. The starter should be 1-2 liters.

Mr. Malty Pitching Calculator - The Liquid Yeast Tab
Click to expand...

Conodor said:
No I boiled water. Then let it sit out closed at room temp. When I needed it both the yeast and my (to small) starter were both room temp.


Once I used my wort chiller I pitched the yeast.
Click to expand...

I think what me meant Conodor is did you use just the cooled boiled water for the liguid yeast as a starter. That is fine for dry yeast to rehydrate but liquid yeast needs food in the starter. 1/2 cup DME to 2 cups water will give a starter solution for liquid yeast, plain water does nothing for liquid yaest
 
YooperBrew said:
It sounds like you just rehydrated, not made a starter, if I'm understanding you correctly.

That's exactly what you should do for dry yeast. Rehydrate in boiled and cooled water and pitch into the finished wort. Dry yeast packages have plenty of yeast cells, and that is the recommended way to do it.

For liquid yeast, you should do things a bit differently. You should make a starter. A starter is about a quart of wort, made to an OG of 1.040. That is about a quart of water and 1 cup DME. You boil the water, add the DME and boil it for a few minutes. Cool, and add to a sanitized gallon jug. Add the liquid yeast, and cover with sanitized foil. Shake often, whenever you walk by the container. Then, after two days, it's ready to add to your fresh wort.

I make my starters about two to three days before brewday. The point of a starter is simply to grow more yeast, since there aren't enough yeast cells in a liquid vial to ferment anything above about 1.040 or so.
Click to expand...



Wow didn't know liquid needed all that. This would make sence why I've had bad results with liquids. Dry seems much easier.haha

Thanks again!
 
going through this same thing with a starter I did on sunday night. I made a starter for liquid yeast, and nothing as of now. It was my first starter ever, so know i don't know if it is me or the yeast.
 
Wife just text me. We have some activity. In the airlock. So either the movement or warmer temp gave it a iick start.

I will do more research on the liquid starter.

Thanks everyone
 
brian_g said:
My own preference is dry yeast. I don't mess with a starter or with rehydration of the yeast. I just sprinkle the yeast on top of the wort. I haven't had any problems getting fermentation to start using this method.
Click to expand...

This is what I do. I sprinkle it on all the foam I get from the pour, let it sit for 5-10 minutes, then stir like crazy. Takes off great every time.
 
was the 'kit beer' an extract kit? if so was it only a partial boil and then topped off with water in the primary?

if so, that batch has more oxygen than the all grain batch with a full boil. could be that your aeration technique for all grain isn't quite up to par.
 
I use liquid yeast all the time and have never had such a problem. I make starters for beers over 1.06 and lagers.

I wonder did you shake the yeast pack before pitching ( even to the starter)?
I recently forgot to do so when pitching for a pale ale and an awful lot of yeast was left in the packet.
Strange , if I had experience like that I wouldn't use liquid yeast either
Regards.
 
beersydoesit said:
I use liquid yeast all the time and have never had such a problem. I make starters for beers over 1.06 and lagers.

I wonder did you shake the yeast pack before pitching ( even to the starter)?
I recently forgot to do so when pitching for a pale ale and an awful lot of yeast was left in the packet.
Strange , if I had experience like that I wouldn't use liquid yeast either
Regards.
Click to expand...

If you read back though all the posts, I think the problem was found. No DME in his starter.
 
Yeah, I saw that. And I read where someone said he had effectively rehydrated his yeast.

If the yeast was damaged in theprocess, okay. But if lack of DME simply meant the yeast didn't grow, my experience is still that one smack pack will cause good fermentation in most cases. So I'm still curious.

Regards
 
Revvy has a sticky somewhere on the difference between liquid and dry yeast in regards to there start time .... Worth a read!
 
You don't have to make the starter 2-3 days ahead of time. The yeast will reach their maximum population within 12 to 24 hours. I make a 2 quart starter the day before I intend to brew and then pitch the entire active starter. This gets the fermentation going as fast or faster than my beers with rehydrated dry yeast.

I use dry yeast for many of my beers, especially those that can us US-05, Notty, or S-04. However many beers, such and belgians and wheats are much better with the liquid strains and I have seen some small improvements in my English beers using the liquid strains, vs Notty or S-04. So its nice to be able to successfully use both varieties.

Making a starter is not really that difficult and well worth the effort for liquid yeasts.

Craig
 
beersydoesit said:
I use liquid yeast all the time and have never had such a problem. I make starters for beers over 1.06 and lagers.
Click to expand...


You are underpitching all the time then on your lower gravity beers, even at 1.048 an ale will need a pitching rate of 177 million cells. Even at 100% viability one smack pack has only 100 million.
 
You mean billion I think.
And Wyeast maintains that I can pitch my 100 billion cells into wort up to 1.06.
And I've had success. Quick, vigorous fermentations that hit my FG.
So even though it doesn't conform to MrMalty, it works reiably for me.
 

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