You can't screw up cider right?

I started a new batch of cider tonight, 13 gallons of Apfelwein, I think I am going to need more bottles.


The yeast:
Since they told me at the mill they would press in the next 2 days I had to get my yeast into it's starter. After consuming a small boatload of clams and beer i got around to making the starter at midnight. I smacked two packs of Wyeast #3068 weishenstephan and let them bulge. The wife like to see just how long she can stand it before she turns the heat on. Since the house was 57 degrees i had to set up a little lamp for heat and a BBQ thermometer to monitor the temp. I managed to keep my yeast right at 75 by adjusting bulb to yeast distance. Everything was working great, I could hear the yeast fizz and the packs expanded. At the correct time I added each pack to a mason jar of starter. 1 cup of cider + 1 cup of water + a hint of nutrient then shaken till my arms were numb. The next morning there was a nice layer of foam and I gave it a gentle swirl.



The cider:
Saturday afternoon I took my carboy to my favorite cider mill Shutt's. Even though it is in Webster they do make the best cider. The place was crawling with soccer moms buying fry cakes and nick nacks to hang on there wall. Kids blindly running through the crazy parking lot. The young guy filling jugs took my carboys and said they would press another batch in next 2 days and he would call. Sunday morning, i get a voice mail and i'm out the door. I pull up to the loading dock and one of the younger guys loads my carboys into my truck. They are filled with chilled, unfiltered, straight from the press, chunky goodness. We have a nice conversation about apple jacking and yeast and I take off for home. I have to wait since my yeast hasn't even been in it's starter for 12 hours. I actually read the directions so figured I would follow them and wait. Cider was stored out in the garage overnight till monday after work. After dinner i pitched the yeast (40 hours in the starter)

The sticky mess my wife is going find in the morning:

Carboy #1 "Fat Nancy"
This sucker is 6+ gallons and super old, found in the bottom of my parents barn. Very dusty and very heavy when full.

6ish gallons cider
1 Package Wyeast #3068 Weihenstephan
19.2 oz dextrose
SG = 1.06

Carboy #2 "Brown Betty"

3 gallons cider
1/2 package Wyeast #3068 Weihenstephan
10 oz brown sugar
SG = 1.06

Carboy #3 "big boy"

3 gallons cider
1/2 package Wyeast #3068 Weihenstephan
10 oz dextrose
SG = 1.062


Why i did what i did:

I took EdWort's recipe and this guys advice so instead of 2 pounds of sugar and wine yeast I went to 1 pound and beer yeast. The weight was ratio'd down from the 5 gallon recipe to my 3 gallon containers.

The wyeast pack said it enough for 5 gallons (51.5 grams of liquid yeast), i put it into 6, 1 gallon off, close enough I guess.

Natural yeast? I left them, if they can overpower my super wyeast and it tastes like crap i'll figure out something else to do with it over the FREEZING winter.

What the future holds:

I have a solid collection of champagne bottles for bottle priming and 1 gallon jugs for still cider. Beer bottle seem like a waste of time and who doesn't like to throw the jug over there arm and take a big swig at the campfire??

See how i finished off my last batch here

Awesome, that's what I plan on doing coming up in a few weeks, as soon as the current apfelwein carboy is empty!

Those carboys look awesome btw.

Looks good! Now all you need is patience!

Enjoy....in about 5 months or later.

Cool! I think you have to try to screw up cider . Keep hold of that old carboy, they do not make them like that anymore. One of my carboys didn't wait for me, so I am getting more than I bargained for lol.

#1 and #3 are bubbling away #2 = nothing

Does brown sugar normally take longer to get going?

I've got 10 gallons of Schutt's cider going too. I'm craving frycakes now. Stuck with the montrachet, kinda wish I tried the wyeast. Anyway it's bottling day and I'm wasting time. Let me know how the wyeast works out!

On my last batch of Schutt's I used Lanvin EC1113 champagne yeast.
It was alright i guess, it was my 1st try and had nothing to judge it against. It was very dry, I wish I still had some.

If you want I'll trade you a bottle when I get to that point. I live in the city but have family out in Wayne county.

315er said:

#1 and #3 are bubbling away #2 = nothing

Does brown sugar normally take longer to get going?

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My last batch with brown sugar took around 36 hours to get going, but when it did it rocketed off pretty fast. Did you use nutrient/energizer?

Thanks..i was only 10 hours in when i saw it this morning

only a pinch of nut. in the starter, none in the carboys

22 hours in

3+ week update

airlock still bubbling every few seconds, still can see bubbles rising in the carboy

dramatic color change

I bottled the 6 gallons on Saturday, my two little carboys are still producing bubbles.

To the 6 gallons:

I racked, then removed about 2 liters for another project in my freezer. I added 3 cans of apple / raspberry frozen concentrate and 1 cup of splenda. It came out perfect. Not sickly sweet, just some nice apple/ berry flavor. I have 6 more gallons i won't sweeten.

I added a teaspoon of dextrose to each of 30 champagne bottle for some carbonated goodness. The rest of the still juice went into various wine bottles and big swing top bottles i had.

Wow I never thought of taking carboys straight to the cider mill....

Now I can't wait till next october!!!

I want to try hefe yeast for my next batch of Apfelwein too. I haven't decided if I'll do the full 2lbs of dextrose, just do 1lb, or try 1lb of light DME or a few cans of apple juice concentrate to give it that extra "zing" next time.

I have wondered this myself. Will that amount of sugar kill off the yeast when it ferments?

g_rath said:

I have wondered this myself. Will that amount of sugar kill off the yeast when it ferments?

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I don't think so, I've used 4 lbs of sugar before with no problems. The only problem with that was the lack of flavor when the cider was done...

g_rath said:

I have wondered this myself. Will that amount of sugar kill off the yeast when it ferments?

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I started a thread on mead on saturday asking a different question, and we got into a yeast discussion...I'll dig back to the thread to confirm this later. But someone I believe posted that with either Ec1118 or Montrachet you need over 15 pounds of sugars to kill it off....Like I said, I can't recall the specifics now but I'll look when I get to work...

I wonder if there's a chart somewhere for the different yeast strains and how much needed to stop fermentation.

Well the yeast do have that number. It's the amount of alcohol they can tolerate. You just have to make the calculations with the amount of fermentable sugar and projected attenuation to see what it should theoretically be. Then you just look at how much the yeast can tolerate. If your close, then you'll have a full ferment. That number is not written in stone either. It could possibly shift up a little if you treat your yeast well and pitch the proper amount.

zoebisch01 said:

Well the yeast do have that number. It's the amount of alcohol they can tolerate. You just have to make the calculations with the amount of fermentable sugar and projected attenuation to see what it should theoretically be. Then you just look at how much the yeast can tolerate. If your close, then you'll have a full ferment. That number is not written in stone either. It could possibly shift up a little if you treat your yeast well and pitch the proper amount.

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Is there some master list someplace with the numbers?

Revvy said:

Is there some master list someplace with the numbers?

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I haven't seen one, but I'd imagine there might be one floating around (and it won't be exact).

The thing is, many yeasts can tolerate a fair amount of alcohol and it is hard to get to that number in general. Attenuation is a function of the yeast genetics, as is alcohol tolerance but they are different characteristics and need to be treated seperately.

So what I am getting at is you'd probably have to add a boatload of sugar to a recipe (probably to the point where it is bordering on total hooch) to get those abv's unless you are using a wine yeast or something that will attenuate better than 80%.

Also, also. With the example given to you for the 15 lbs of sugar, would this be a 5 gallon or 10 gallon (or other size) batch? That is another factor. Montrachet is listed at 10% abv tolerance. I can make a 9.0 abv brew with ~13 lbs of grain and 2 lbs of sugar. So I'd imagine that in the case of the example it is calculated with 5 gallons and 15 lbs of sugar with nothing else, that kind of makes sense but without laying out all the numbers I am not sure.