BIAB vs the traditional way

Hey guys,

I am just getting into all grain and have one batch under my belt. We did it the Brew in a Bag way. It was so easy, I can't see doing all-grain the traditional way...unless there's an advantage.

Is there any reason why the traditional method of using a Mash/Lauter tun, HLT and a Brew kettle is superior to BIAB?

Thanks!

Nick

The biggest advantages of doing a mash in a "regular" MLT is to be able to mash more grain at once, and to be able to effectively vorlauf the wort.

I consider a well done BIAB to be the equal of "traditional". I've done both ways and would only do the 3 keggle set up if I needed to do larger batches and I had someone else to clean it all up. I wish I knew all that before building the first brew rig.

I have two ag biab completed. i used my bottling bucket to sparge the grain. Just completed second one today. With recent purchased grain mill it got me 86% eff. cleanup was a cinch dump the bag, add yeast to bottom of bucket with some remander of wort. Boiled the wort in 2 big pots(dont have a single big one yet). With this experience i dont see the point in using a seperate mash tun. Mainly for the extra cleanup that would be involved.

I only have an 8 gal boil kettle. It would be impossible for me to do a barley wine or RIS with BIAB, and lucky for me (and my liver) I'm starting to get quite partial to those styles. Putting together an MLT was cheaper than investing in another kettle. It also holds rock steady mash temps and I get a consistent 83±1% efficiency every time.

And I don't really know what the whole fuss about cleaning a cooler MLT is. I just spray mine out each time. It's not like it's even coming close to the wort post-boil.

I've tried BIAB, and I'm going to stick with my MLT. To each their own though.

I've done both and the jury is still out for me. I must say that I don't see a difference in the brew. It is a little trickier holding mash temp w/ BIAB for me, as I simply wrap the kettle w/ towels / blankets. I think the key w/ BIAB is to strike a little high and let it drift downward a few degrees during the rest.

wilserbrewer said:

I've done both and the jury is still out for me. I must say that I don't see a difference in the brew. It is a little trickier holding mash temp w/ BIAB for me, as I simply wrap the kettle w/ towels / blankets. I think the key w/ BIAB is to strike a little high and let it drift downward a few degrees during the rest.

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You can mash in a round cooler with BIAB. I do it from time to time.

Wort clarity sucks with BIAB and you lose more beer to trub/debris, but I don't care. Ease of use trumps all of that for me (I'm retarded when it comes to building things).

I've done both... As soon as I wanted to do brews with more umpf to them, I had to leave BIAB behind. I only had one 8 gallon kettle, and a pair of 5 gallon pots to work with. With a decent sized grist, I was filling both to overflowing just to mash/sparge the grain and get my pre-boil volume.

I switched to a cooler mash tun for a while, and have since migrated to a converted keg mash tun that I can direct fire and recirculate the wort through (while heating). Properly/decently insulated the keg mash tun will work just as well (for me) as the cooler mash tuns did. If anything, it will be easier since I'll be able to apply heat directly in order to maintain the mash temp.

Use what your comfortable with. If you have large enough kettles, then you could do pretty much anything with either method. I just prefer to NOT need a hoist in order to lift the grain bag out of the kettle/pot in order to move it to sparge. OR lift it so that I can then boil the wort. To me, that's more PITA than BIAB should be...

jfr1111 said:

You can mash in a round cooler with BIAB. I do it from time to time.

Wort clarity sucks with BIAB and you lose more beer to trub/debris, but I don't care. Ease of use trumps all of that for me (I'm retarded when it comes to building things).

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Why do you say wort clarity sucks with BIAB? Just not being able to recirculate during the end of the mash?

Seems like there are plenty of things post-mash that promote clarity - Whirfloc in the boil was the main one I was thinking of...

Burgs said:

Why do you say wort clarity sucks with BIAB? Just not being able to recirculate during the end of the mash?

Seems like there are plenty of things post-mash that promote clarity - Whirfloc in the boil was the main one I was thinking of...

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Pre-boil wort clarity is pretty important. It doesn't have to be crystal clear, but it shouldn't be heavily clouded.

I had 6 batches in a row that were overly bitter/astringent that I traced back to getting too much draff into the boil kettle. The problem was my BIAB bag was too coarse to filter effectively without vorlaufing. I tried vorlaufing in my bottling bucket, and it solved the problem on the next batch.

What kind of bag were you using, Nateo?

Burgs said:

What kind of bag were you using, Nateo?

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I was using a paint strainer bag at the time. I had previously been using a fine cheesecloth sack. I hadn't really noticed any astringency when I was using the cheesecloth, but after I switched to the paint strainer bag, and then to a cooler MLT, I did notice a difference in quality of the finished beer. The paint strainer bag was awful, and the cheesecloth bag was good, but not as good as the MLT.

I had always thought I'd make the jump to AG the traditional way. After 2 BIAB's though, I'm not sure I'll ever make the switch. Hit 68% efficiency on #1, and last night hit around 81%. Adjusted my crush and compensated for thermometer reading 4 degrees low. There is simply no need to go traditional for me to go after additional efficiency.

I like cleaning less equipment, less equipment to store, and less equipment to buy. On really big beers, I may have to supplement 3 lbs of LME, but this is a reflection more of my 7 gallon boil kettle size. BIAB rocks!

I did several biab batches when I was doing 3.5 gal batches. But, now I am kegging & doing 4.5 gal batches. (I need a bigger brew kettle & fermenter). I have not noticed any differences in the quality of my beer in the biab vs "traditional" batches.

I enjoy Biab for sure. It is easy, and because I can mill my grain finer (than traditional with stuck sparge concern) I get great efficiencies. The trub is a problem, but if you adjust your system you can rack off after cooling/whirlpooling, you will just have to leave more behind. I have won a few medals with my Biab brews.

The key is fermentation anyway! BIAB is awesome, and super easy!

As with any method of creating wort, the devil is in the details. The quality of wort produced with BIAB is very dependent on the crush and type of bag used.

Paint strainer bags and hop bags are much too course. The material you want is Swiss voile, which is very fine. (See pic) This, combined with a fine crush will produce good efficiency and relatively clear wort.

The inherent disadvantage of the BIAB method is batch size. You need a large kettle relative to batch size and once you get above a 10 gallon batch, you're talking about a really large kettle AND you'll need a hoist to get the bag out.

The Aussie's have really perfected (originated as well) this method. They've done lots of comparison testing and have concluded that BIAB produces comparable wort to traditional methods.

And as always, it's not the method, it's the skill of the brewer that determines final beer quality.

Michael

datamike said:

As with any method of creating wort, the devil is in the details. The quality of wort produced with BIAB is very dependent on the crush and type of bag used.

Paint strainer bags and hop bags are much too course. The material you want is Swiss voile, which is very fine. (See pic) This, combined with a fine crush will produce good efficiency and relatively clear wort.

The inherent disadvantage of the BIAB method is batch size. You need a large kettle relative to batch size and once you get above a 10 gallon batch, you're talking about a really large kettle AND you'll need a hoist to get the bag out.

The Aussie's have really perfected (originated as well) this method. They've done lots of comparison testing and have concluded that BIAB produces comparable wort to traditional methods.

And as always, it's not the method, it's the skill of the brewer that determines final beer quality.

Michael

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Interesting post datamike.
Where can I get this Swiss voile you speak of?

CanadianQuaffer said:

Interesting post datamike.
Where can I get this Swiss voile you speak of?

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I saw some in the curtain section of my local fabric store, but it wasn't labelled as Swiss Voile. You want the 100% polyester one, as voile can also be had in cotton or in a blend.

datamike said:

As with any method of creating wort, the devil is in the details. The quality of wort produced with BIAB is very dependent on the crush and type of bag used.

Paint strainer bags and hop bags are much too course. The material you want is Swiss voile, which is very fine. (See pic) This, combined with a fine crush will produce good efficiency and relatively clear wort.

And as always, it's not the method, it's the skill of the brewer that determines final beer quality.

Michael

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I agree with that. Finer bags worked much better for me. I never found voile, but I didn't look all that hard either. My current setup lets me brew 10-15gal batches easily. Since I'm brewing once every other month or so now, instead of several times a month, the BIAB method doesn't work so well. For the 3gal batches I used to make, BIAB is ideal.

Anyone know anything about this bag:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/nylon-brew-bucket-filter-bag-fine-mesh.html

They just say it's "fine" mesh but there aren't really any detailed pictures. Wondering how it stacks up against voile.

CanadianQuaffer said:

Interesting post datamike.
Where can I get this Swiss voile you speak of?

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Most fabric stores carry it. It's available online here: http://www.onlinefabricstore.net/sheer-curtain-fabric/voile-fabric/118-inch-white-voile-fabric-.htm

As mentioned, you want the polyester variety.

Michael

This is the fabric I purchased. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0046VHT4E/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 It was enough for 2 bags.

Nateo said:

I agree with that. Finer bags worked much better for me. I never found voile, but I didn't look all that hard either. My current setup lets me brew 10-15gal batches easily. Since I'm brewing once every other month or so now, instead of several times a month, the BIAB method doesn't work so well. For the 3gal batches I used to make, BIAB is ideal.

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Based on your experiences, I'm going to use my paint straining bags for... straining some paint, I guess. I had forgotten that I bought a 18 3/4" x 19" fine mesh straining bag from NB a while back. I think this will be perfect on a 5 gallon stockpot, and I'll be able to clip it to the edges.

I had thought about mashing in a 5 gallon cooler, but those effing paint strainer bags seem like they'd slip off too easily when doughing in and stirring, and I want to be able to really get in there.

Burgs said:

Anyone know anything about this bag:

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/nylon-brew-bucket-filter-bag-fine-mesh.html

They just say it's "fine" mesh but there aren't really any detailed pictures. Wondering how it stacks up against voile.

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I found out yesterday that this is just for slipping over the top of a bucket and pouring wort through. It's not deep enough to get down towards the bottom of a mashing vessel. Just FYI.

I found the best way to hold the bag in place, if the bag is deep enough, is to fold the top of the bag up and over the lip of the bucket or pot or whatever, and then use a length of webbing with a cam buckle. You can pull it really tight, and the cam buckle keeps it from slipping. I did it this way when using the grain bag in the bottling bucket to keep the bag off the bottom. It worked a lot better than the big paper clips I had been using.