I'm guessing this is what they mean by 'efficiency'

For some strange reason, I've been getting much lower Starting Gravity numbers than I'm expecting. Most recently, I used 12 lbs of grain (and 3 lb of turbinado sugar), and got a SG of 1.040 for 5 gallons. I've been concerned about this for awhile, since this has happened a few times.

I think my mashing is fine, I keep my water at or very close to 150º, steep my grains for 1 hour at least, stirring every 2 minutes or so, and I split up the grain bill in half into 2 pots and use a ton of water in each pot. I also boil for at least 2 hours. Any ideas on why I'm not getting all the malty goodness out of my grain?

I'm going to re-read my homebrewing books and see if I'm missing something important. I'd like to get the problem resolved before the next brew day so I don't have to keep adding extra sugar or malt extract to bump up the ABV in the 2ndary.
Input is much appreciated

First...Stop Stirring so much. It doesn't need it. Second, don't' add sugars to the Secondary...if you're going to add stuff...do it right away, that way the yeast stands a better chance against it.
Third, Make sure you are using the proper grains...in example, 12# of Black Patent malt wont do you a lot of good...you need to have mostly 2 row, or other "Base Malts" That is where you get the enzymes for starch conversion.
Fourthly, Perhaps you are using TOO MUCH water for your mash. 1.25 QT per Pound of grain. Live it!
Sparge Technique?

Yeah, how are you sparging the grains if you're steeping them between 2 pots? If you aren't sparging enough or correctly you'll leave A LOT of sugar behind with the grain.

TOO MUCH water? There is such a thing? I figured the more water that the grains had to move around in, the more easily the sugars get sucked out.

The constant stirring was something I just started doing since I've been worried about getting all the 'juice' out of the grains.

For Sparging, I have a 5 or 6 gallon bucket that I drilled 10 million holes into on the bottom and I pour the mash through that. It drains okay by itself, so I usually (or my brew buddy usually) stirs around the grains to unclump them and make sure it drains almost completely. Then I pour a pot of just boiled water over all of the grains, stir more, and let drain again.

On a side note, for the 12 lb 1.040 disaster, it was a mixture of 2-Row, Marris Otter, and Carapils, so nothing that I wouldn't expect a higher SG from. I also had a disappointing SG from a recipe that had 16 lbs of grain, with about 3 lbs being crystal / chocolate. The beer looked like syrup by the time I was done, and I was all pumped and ready to get a high SG and it read out as like 1.050 or something, I don't remember. But I was pissed.

RE the 'don't add sugars to the 2ndary....so the yeast stands a better chance', I use plenty of yeast (and a starter culture), and when I go from primary to 2ndary I usually add more yeast. I also just boiled 4.5 lbs of turbinado sugar & water into some nice looking syrup......and my carboy is waiting downstairs........so......I'm gonna kinda have to add it to the 2ndary..... =/
A 4.5% ABV "IPA" with like 8 oz of hops is Not going to cut it for me

powerjb said:

Yeah, how are you sparging the grains if you're steeping them between 2 pots? If you aren't sparging enough or correctly you'll leave A LOT of sugar behind with the grain.

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I sparge one pot at a time and boil them both down until they can fit into 1 pot, then combine and go on with my boil. Since I started sparging with my earlier mentioned bucket full o' holes & pot of recently boiled water, I noticed I was getting great SG's, often higher than expected. Perhaps this is where the problems arise though, next time I will pour a Lot more hot water over the grains to wash them out better.

There are a few problems with your process and I highly recommend you read my all grain primer. First, it sounds like you're mashing way too thin. I'll recommend 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain. Stop stirring so much.

After your 60 minute mash, separate the wort from the grain anyway you like (that's lautering). You can use a strainer, keep the grain in a grain bag, modify a cooler with a stainless braid or manifold, false bottom, bucket with holes whatever.

After that, recombine the moist grain with another batch of water at about 185F. The volume here is going to be very close to what you used for your mash. Stir well, then separate again. Do this one more time and you should have all your wort to boil. This is called batch sparging and you'll have a lot of success with it.

Bobby_M said:

There are a few problems with your process and I highly recommend you read my all grain primer. First, it sounds like you're mashing way too thin. I'll recommend 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain. Stop stirring so much.

After your 60 minute mash, separate the wort from the grain anyway you like (that's lautering). You can use a strainer, keep the grain in a grain bag, modify a cooler with a stainless braid or manifold, false bottom, bucket with holes whatever.

After that, recombine the moist grain with another batch of water at about 185F. The volume here is going to be very close to what you used for your mash. Stir well, then separate again. Do this one more time and you should have all your wort to boil. This is called batch sparging and you'll have a lot of success with it.

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Awesome. Next time I'll mix the grain with a lot of hot water instead of pouring a pot over it.
And I'll use less water, I didn't think using a lot of water would reduce the amount of sugars you get out of the grain.
Thanks for all the input guys

The reasoning behind the grain to water ratio is to get the proper enzyme concentration. A very thin grist will have a low concentration

hammacks said:

The reasoning behind the grain to water ratio is to get the proper enzyme concentration. A very thin grist will have a low concentration

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beat me to the punch. too much water just spreads your alpha and beta amylaze enzymes out, where they may not be able to interact as effectively with the starches in the grain to produce the sugars we need for fermentation.

I totally agree with doing 1.25quarts of water per pound as a new 'baseline' for you to use. You may need to bump it up a little to suite your brewhouse.

and +1 to Bobby's all grain primer...that man definitely knows how to brew.

malkore said:

and +1 to Bobby's all grain primer...that man definitely knows how to brew.

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And Thanks to him....so do a lot of us!

Guys, come on, blushing makes me feel feminine.

Bobby_M said:

Guys, come on, blushing makes me feel feminine.

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Kinda makes you look like a girl too

BigKahuna said:

Kinda makes you look like a girl too

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So should we leave you two alone for a few minutes?