well my new MT failed it's test miserably...

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Willsellout

Willsellout

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So this was a Rubbermaid 50 quart extreme cooler that I've had for a couple years. I decided to try and convert it, and after much work on my part to make it work, it has failed miserably. I didn't pre-heat it, but for it to drop 11 points in an hour is a bit much. So I let it sit for another 45 minutes and checked the temps again and it dropped another 5. In the round cooler I use now, it drops maybe 2 points in an hour. I think the problem is that the lid is thin and it's in two halves, so there is a lot of nooks to lose heat through. Any suggestions? I'm going to throw some more water in to bring it up to 170 and check it for another hour to make sure it won't work. Maybe it's because I only have a couple gallons of water in there..who knows, but I love this cooler because the drain is below the floor and in the end I lose very little liquid.


Dan
 
Cover it with a couple blankets... They might provide enough insulation to keep the heat in the cooler and stop the lid leak...

Seal the two section together...
 
DeadYetiBrew said:
Cover it with a couple blankets... They might provide enough insulation to keep the heat in the cooler and stop the lid leak...

Seal the two section together...
Click to expand...


Good ideas. I checked the lid for heat and checked the crack for heat and there is actually very little heat radiating through, and none in the crack...one more try and then I'll try to blankets to see if that helps.

Thanks

Dan
 
Willsellout said:
Good ideas. I checked the lid for heat and checked the crack for heat and there is actually very little heat radiating through, and none in the crack...one more try and then I'll try to blankets to see if that helps.

Thanks

Dan
Click to expand...


Hmm, try feeling it to see where the warmest part is... then try taking some foam, like they put in couches, and fix that to the area, or the whole cooler, and then cover it with blankets....
 
Are you testing it with just water...no grains?

I would think that preheating the cooler will make a diffference. It does on mine. That and loading it with a heavy grain bill will make a big difference.

The grains provide the surface area required to absorb and retain the heat. If the cooler has only water, then the only other thing that the heat can transfer to is the walls.

Of course, if it is a really old cooler, maybe it just isn't the latest/greatest thermo techology.
 
BierMuncher said:
Are you testing it with just water...no grains?

I would think that preheating the cooler will make a diffference. It does on mine. That and loading it with a heavy grain bill will make a big difference.

The grains provide the surface area required to absorb and retain the heat. If the cooler has only water, then the only other thing that the heat can transfer to is the walls.

Of course, if it is a really old cooler, maybe it just isn't the latest/greatest thermo techology.
Click to expand...

Yeah just water. I think that compounded with only a couple gallons total are making it lose heat quickly. This cooler is supposed to keep ice and beverages for 5 days, and it delivers with that claim as I've tested it before (I like testing things:D). I think it will work, I will just throw some blankets over the top of it. No big deal...but this thing drains magnificently. It leaves approximately 1/2 cup of liquid when everything is drained, as opposed to about a quart in the round 5 gal rubbermaid. This thing even seals better than the rubbermaid. We will see in a couple weeks when I brew again.


Dan
 
I think the preheating makes a HUGE difference. Try it again by preheating the water, swirling it around and letting it sit. Then drain and refill with your strike water temp water. I think you'll see that it will hold heat much better than without preheating.
 
I'll agree with the preheating the cooler. Get that thing at least as hot as the temp you will be resting at if not higher and then try it.
 
I'm just going to do a test run on my next AG. I'm fairly positive it will perform well. I drained it again and I was wrong on my 1/2 measurement. It leaves 4 tablespoons of liquid behind. I think bieMuncher is right though with the grains it should hold the heat much better. My next brew is going to be a Cali Common using about 13 pounds of grains. I will post some pics of this one in a little while.


Thanks for the help and advice!


Dan
 
Preheating is fine and dandy, but unless you do it the EXACT same way every time, it's useless. Do a couple brews and figure out what you need to do to your strike water to compensate for your mash tun thermal mass. It's way easier to change your strike water a few degrees either way than to go through a MT pre-heating ritual every brew.
 
My preheat water becomes my sparge water, and the preheating usually takes place while I'm measuring out strike water. With the hot water from the tap at about 135, it doesn't take long for the preheat water to reach around 160. But like the Chariman said, if you don't do the same procedure every time, trying to calculate everything is useless.
 
I normally put the water in the tun at 190F, wait 20 minutes then adjust the temperature before adding the grain. Pre-heating is a must do for a cooler.

You might be able to thicken the lids with some spray-on urethane insulation. One can would do it, but don't try for more than an extra inch, or you'll start having problems opening & closing it. If you don't mind a little ugly, you could foam the top.
 
david_42 said:
I normally put the water in the tun at 190F, wait 20 minutes then adjust the temperature before adding the grain. Pre-heating is a must do for a cooler.

You might be able to thicken the lids with some spray-on urethane insulation. One can would do it, but don't try for more than an extra inch, or you'll start having problems opening & closing it. If you don't mind a little ugly, you could foam the top.
Click to expand...

We'll see how it does during an actual mash. I'd rather but some blankets on top than to permanently alter it I think... mainly because I will still be using this cooler for picnics and BBQ's.

If it doesn't work, I'll get an igloo ice cube and use that. No big deal.

Dan
 
Chairman Cheyco said:
Preheating is fine and dandy, but unless you do it the EXACT same way every time, it's useless. Do a couple brews and figure out what you need to do to your strike water to compensate for your mash tun thermal mass. It's way easier to change your strike water a few degrees either way than to go through a MT pre-heating ritual every brew.
Click to expand...

This is the exact way I do it--I never pre-heat because ambient temperature fluctuations will hose that method every time.

I agree with this assessment--seems like a waste fo even more time during a long AG brew day anyway.


david_42 said:
I normally put the water in the tun at 190F, wait 20 minutes then adjust the temperature before adding the grain. Pre-heating is a must do for a cooler.
Click to expand...

I've never pre-heated my mash tun and I rarely even lose a degree of temperature. I have a 10 gallon rubbermaid.
 
Add steam ! You'll never worry about missing the mash in temp again. And you can do step mashes and mash outs.
 
Baloney.

Coolers just don't seem to be that variable, they all seem to work.

Willsellout's problem is that he didn't fill it up enough for his test. 2 gallons in a 15 gallon chest just won't act like the 5 gallons of mash would. You wouldn't expect one tray of ice cubes to chill a six pack in a cooler that size, would you?

Hmmm, 11 pounds of grain, plus 1 1/4 qts per, adds up to about 5 gallons. Add some for contingencies. 60 qts would do good for a 12 gallon batch. Lots of area there for 5 gallons of mash to maintain temps in. 2 gallons just won't work in that big of a warehouse.

I do add 1/2 of my strike water first to my rectangular cooler. Mostly to warm up the corners. I don't add it all, because my cooler isn't too heat proof- it is starting to buckle now. Then I add the grains, then the remainder of the strike water and stir. Since I started that method, I have been getting much more stable mash temps. No more ooops, to cold, add more hot water. Oooops, too hot, add some cold...
 
I also preheat. I treat it like a thermos, it will retain heat alot better if preheated. Also, water has extremely different thermodynamics than mash does, the grain will help retain some of the heat.
 
casebrew said:
Baloney.

Coolers just don't seem to be that variable, they all seem to work.

Willsellout's problem is that he didn't fill it up enough for his test. 2 gallons in a 15 gallon chest just won't act like the 5 gallons of mash would. You wouldn't expect one tray of ice cubes to chill a six pack in a cooler that size, would you?

Hmmm, 11 pounds of grain, plus 1 1/4 qts per, adds up to about 5 gallons. Add some for contingencies. 60 qts would do good for a 12 gallon batch. Lots of area there for 5 gallons of mash to maintain temps in. 2 gallons just won't work in that big of a warehouse.

I do add 1/2 of my strike water first to my rectangular cooler. Mostly to warm up the corners. I don't add it all, because my cooler isn't too heat proof- it is starting to buckle now. Then I add the grains, then the remainder of the strike water and stir. Since I started that method, I have been getting much more stable mash temps. No more ooops, to cold, add more hot water. Oooops, too hot, add some cold...
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. It's just like anything else. If I make coffee and fill my thermos to the top, it will retain heat for days..but if I fill it 1/4 of the way, it will only stay hot for a couple hours. I'm sure it will do fine.


Dan
 

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