The Electic Koolkaid Acid Test

Wasn't that Ken Kesey?

To re-open briefly a subject that created a lot of stir previously, today I opened up my "cupboard steak" and a frozen control.

Both looked and smelled about the same, though the steak that had sat for 80 days at 80 degrees was fall apart tender like something cooked for days. The two packages were dumped into the Sous Vide and reheated for an hour or so at 133F prior to opening, and in the packages when removed, they were indistinguishable.

The original procedure was to sear 4 pieces of chuck steak in a 3000 deg propane torch, drop them in vacuum seal bags, seal and cook in sous vide for 48 hours at 133. One "control" steak went into the freezer, and the other 3 went into a cupboard above the heater that stays about 80F for 90 days. Two steaks showed inflation, and obvious sign of spoilage, probably botulism, and were frozen where they remain under the skull and crossbones.

I consider a 33% success rate for a first try phenomenal. The cupboard steak showed absolutely no sign of any sort of spoilage. No inflation from biological decomposition, no odor, no discoloration of fluids. It appeared perfectly edible.

The next try will involve the deep fryer instead of a torch because hot grease will penetrate further into cracks, etc. Chuck is a very loose steak. Each steak will be dropped into vacuum sealer bags filled with starsan which will immediately be dumped out and the bag vacuum sealed. This time the cupboard steaks will be processed for only about an hour at about 130F in an attempt to prevent them from becoming over tenderized by time.

Constructive comments and suggestions ONLY please. This needn't become a "food fight". I WILL proceed with this experiment regardless of general opinion and negative comments.


H.W.

Did you eat any of this?

Zuljin said:

Did you eat any of this?

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Of course not, he's vegan. Meat is murder.

Owly055 said:

Wasn't that Ken Kesey?

Each steak will be dropped into vacuum sealer bags filled with starsan which will immediately be dumped out and the bag vacuum sealed. This time the cupboard steaks will be processed for only about an hour at about 130F in an attempt to prevent them from becoming over tenderized by time.

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There are many things to consider but this is a major weakness in the process. Starsan is not capable of killing spores of C. botulinum. Any chemical sterilant I am aware of would not be appropriate for food contact, such as glutaraldehyde or unavalaible such as ethylene oxide. A vacuum bag that is capable of autoclave conditions would be optimal.

If the piece of meat has been subject to any punctures this could harbor bacteria that oil would not have access to. I have been in enough packing houses to know this is not out of the realm of possibilities.

I am unsure of the effectiveness of frying for sterilization of C. botulinum. If it is capable one must ensure sterilization of all utensils used for handling and employee sterile technique through the process.

Good point about starsan, probably a waste of time. Rinsing the bags in water would be as effective. I agree with your comment on punctures, and in fact credit the looseness of chuck, which results in lots of cracks and crevices for the mere 33.3% success rate. It is pretty unlikely that the bags themselves would harbor botulism, and a rinse with hot soapy water would probably dislodge what happens to be there.

I don't expect 100% success every single time, and the 90 day incubation period is a guard against this. I do feel that hot grease will be far more effective than the flame. I plan to do one steak that is not cooked at all except deep frying while frozen... just to see what happens.

I already know that sane rational people don't do this sort of thing........

H.W.

Brad2287 said:

There are many things to consider but this is a major weakness in the process. Starsan is not capable of killing spores of C. botulinum. Any chemical sterilant I am aware of would not be appropriate for food contact, such as glutaraldehyde or unavalaible such as ethylene oxide. A vacuum bag that is capable of autoclave conditions would be optimal.

If the piece of meat has been subject to any punctures this could harbor bacteria that oil would not have access to. I have been in enough packing houses to know this is not out of the realm of possibilities.

I am unsure of the effectiveness of frying for sterilization of C. botulinum. If it is capable one must ensure sterilization of all utensils used for handling and employee sterile technique through the process.

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Owly, are you trying to make your own MRE's?
Regards, GF.

One thing I noticed is you stated the meat has become over tenderized. I am not so sure this is due to the cooking process. Spoilage of meat is not only microbial in nature. When one is talking about meat spoilage and preservation generally three things cause spoilage. Microbes, oxidation, and autolytic enzyme spoilage. Microbes are obviously the major concern as they will make you sick. Since you are trying to develop a preservation method that preserves the flavor and texture of medium rare beef the other types of spoilage must be considered.

Right now your process is mostly concerned with the microbial decomposition part. A vacuum sealed bag should greatly hinder the oxidative processes but may not completely stop them. I do believe the standard vacuum bags do allow some oxygen migration through the plastic and this is why mylar bags are used when oxidation control is critical. A standard vacuum sealed bag may very well be enough to hinder oxidation so that there is no noticeable deleterious effect.

Currently as far as I can tell you are not employing any steps to hinder the autolytic enzyme processes. The calpain protease system is mostly responsible for proteolytic meat tenderization during storage. This is the process that happens during wet and dry aging of meat. The time and temperature is usually controlled to tenderize the meat but not let it go far enough to allow the meat texture to become unfavorable. This enzyme system is very likely contributing to the fall apart texture you are seeing in the room temperature stored meat. This will also contribute to a change of flavor as proteins are hydrolyzed to peptides and free fatty acids.

I have attached a peer reviewed article published in the American Journal of Agricultural and Biological Sciences that covers these three mechanisms of spoilage. It also covers the strategies that have been employed to inhibit them.

View attachment Meat Spoilage Mechanism and Preservation Techniques.pdf

Thanks very much for this insightful response, one of the few truly useful responses on this topic.
It does fall in with the methodology that I'm gradually developing for my second experiment. In this second experiment the sous vide time will be greatly reduced, and the temp will be reduced to about 131F with the idea that "cooking" comprises two basic steps. One is sterilization, the second tenderizing. The temp of 131 will not immediately kill microbes, but held at that temp for an hour or two, it will kill all but spore producing microbes. The test will begin by deep frying the meat in frozen condition, followed by vacuum sealing and placing in the sous vide. I will also place one in a warm location without the sous vide treatment. This second test will involve a firm tight texture cut....... sirloin, which I will cut from a full piece so I know that there are no punctures from implements like a fork.
It is worth noting that the two steaks that "failed" in the previous experiment proved not to be infected with botulism as I had suspected. I won't describe the test methodology but suffice it to say that it was vaguely similar to what was used in times long past for pregnancy tests ;-)

H.W.

Brad2287 said:

One thing I noticed is you stated the meat has become over tenderized. I am not so sure this is due to the cooking process. Spoilage of meat is not only microbial in nature. When one is talking about meat spoilage and preservation generally three things cause spoilage. Microbes, oxidation, and autolytic enzyme spoilage. Microbes are obviously the major concern as they will make you sick. Since you are trying to develop a preservation method that preserves the flavor and texture of medium rare beef the other types of spoilage must be considered.

Right now your process is mostly concerned with the microbial decomposition part. A vacuum sealed bag should greatly hinder the oxidative processes but may not completely stop them. I do believe the standard vacuum bags do allow some oxygen migration through the plastic and this is why mylar bags are used when oxidation control is critical. A standard vacuum sealed bag may very well be enough to hinder oxidation so that there is no noticeable deleterious effect.

Currently as far as I can tell you are not employing any steps to hinder the autolytic enzyme processes. The calpain protease system is mostly responsible for proteolytic meat tenderization during storage. This is the process that happens during wet and dry aging of meat. The time and temperature is usually controlled to tenderize the meat but not let it go far enough to allow the meat texture to become unfavorable. This enzyme system is very likely contributing to the fall apart texture you are seeing in the room temperature stored meat. This will also contribute to a change of flavor as proteins are hydrolyzed to peptides and free fatty acids.

I have attached a peer reviewed article published in the American Journal of Agricultural and Biological Sciences that covers these three mechanisms of spoilage. It also covers the strategies that have been employed to inhibit them.

Click to expand...