help with first pilsner

I am getting ready to brew my first pilsner and have many questions. Hoping to make a Chech style pilsner. I will be using Belgian pils malt, saflager 23, a freezer with temp control to ferment/ lager, and American Saaz hops 4.5%. Where I live in Maui, the water is mostly surface collected, and pretty soft. I also use a direct fire for strike, and a HERMS system to maintain/ increase temps.
What is a good mash schedule? (Lots of different opinions on this seen here, hoping someone can advise me based on my particular wants/ methods)
I should use a higher water to grain ratio? (I already use 1 extra gal. just to get above false bottom)
Starter for dry yeast? If yes, ferment starter warm or cold?
Pitch cold or warm?
90 minute boil?
Raise temp to what in between primary ferment and lagering temps, and for how long?

For 5 gallons, pitch 2 packets of rehydrated dry yeast cold. Boil 90 minutes unless this

is your idea of a great Boh Pils.

Dr. Fedwell said:

I am getting ready to brew my first pilsner and have many questions. Hoping to make a Chech style pilsner. I will be using Belgian pils malt, saflager 23, a freezer with temp control to ferment/ lager, and American Saaz hops 4.5%. Where I live in Maui, the water is mostly surface collected, and pretty soft. I also use a direct fire for strike, and a HERMS system to maintain/ increase temps.
What is a good mash schedule? (Lots of different opinions on this seen here, hoping someone can advise me based on my particular wants/ methods)
I should use a higher water to grain ratio? (I already use 1 extra gal. just to get above false bottom)
Starter for dry yeast? If yes, ferment starter warm or cold?
Pitch cold or warm?
90 minute boil?
Raise temp to what in between primary ferment and lagering temps, and for how long?

Click to expand...

See my czech pils reicipe in my drop down. I would skip the step mash I have listed and use the single infusion I have listed instead. I like 152 as a mash temp. But 150-152F is OK.

I use a 3L/KG water ratio. Not sure what that is in qts/lb. You can replace the NB for whatever bittering hops you prefer as long as you hit 40 IBU's in total.

I'm brewing this beer this weekend.

I am kegging a batch that sounds pretty much exactly what you are making this Saturday.

I did mash in at 145, and bumped it up to 149 after thirty, for 45 more minutes.

For my last few batches, all lagers, I have been taking two cups of chilled (70*F) wort from the keggle, and swirling in two packs of S-23. I let it sit for a few minutes, then add it to the better bottle as I am racking over the rest of the (vigorously aerated) wort.

I stick the BB into my homemade foam board "cooler", along with 2 frozen two liter bottles of water. By the next morning, I have a nice krausen and serious bubbling. After about 12 days at 50*F, I pull the BB out for a nice four day D rest, then back in the cooler for a few days of crash cooling before kegging and lagering in the kegerator.

:rockin:

Dr. Fedwell said:

I am getting ready to brew my first pilsner and have many questions. Hoping to make a Chech style pilsner. I will be using Belgian pils malt, saflager 23, a freezer with temp control to ferment/ lager, and American Saaz hops 4.5%. Where I live in Maui, the water is mostly surface collected, and pretty soft. I also use a direct fire for strike, and a HERMS system to maintain/ increase temps.
What is a good mash schedule? (Lots of different opinions on this seen here, hoping someone can advise me based on my particular wants/ methods)
I should use a higher water to grain ratio? (I already use 1 extra gal. just to get above false bottom)
Starter for dry yeast? If yes, ferment starter warm or cold?
Pitch cold or warm?
90 minute boil?
Raise temp to what in between primary ferment and lagering temps, and for how long?

Click to expand...

Traditional Czech Pils is open fermented.......I did a tour of the Pilsner Urquell brewery years ago and they still had traditional open fermenting tanks in the original chambers as reference batches to make sure they maintained the same taste with modern brewing methods........very neat.

Czech style Pils (really, the original pils.....all other pils are copies) is my 2nd favorite brew after hefe's. I brew a batch at least every month. Also one of the few brews I religiously secondary. My suggestion:

I've tried step mashing.....and it really didn't do anything for me.....not saying that it isn't worth it.....just not to me. My last one I mashed thin at 150 for 90 minutes.

Use irish moss.
90 minute boil (so collect more wort than usual in prep for this-I usually lose 2 gallons in a 90 minute boil).
Don't pitch until you get it down to 50.
After primary is done (about a week), bring it up to 70 degrees for 24 hrs (diacytel rest). For better clarity and a clean rack........when you do this, take it from your fermentation area to the place where you will rack to secondary before the 24hrs......this way you don't have to move it again, and it's sat without moving for the whole 24 hr period, this will greatly improve clarity because you won't disturb the trub/yeast cake with another move just before racking.
After racking to secondary, drop it in your lagering fridge. Lager to your pref (at least a month though, 3 months makes an outstanding brew).

Also, think about your hop schedule. You can really change the character of the brew with this. The pils I'm drinking now, I used 3 oz of US Saaz........1 oz at 60 minutes, 1 oz at 30, then 1 oz at 2 minutes. YMMV.

Also, I know you've decided on the yeast......and quite frankly at this time of year, it's not a bad idea unless you have the liquid on hand, or your LBS carries liquids....that said.........WL Pils #800 will definitely make a beer closer to the Czech brew.

If you use the right yeast, too, you won't need a diacetyl rest, either.

cactusgarrett said:

If you use the right yeast, too, you won't need a diacetyl rest, either.

Click to expand...

You're right, it's not necessary. Though diacytyl aside........bringing it up to room temp for a day makes for a cleaner finished product. And it's a goog method/excuse to let it sit on a counter without moving it for 24 hrs before racking to secondary---which also helps to make a nice clean finished product.

I've skipped the rest on plenty of lagers.........and never experienced diacytyl once. But, I sure can tell the diff on my pils.......when I look through that glass and it's so clear.....many think I filtered it.

IMHO, you know you've got a good pils......when you can read a newspaper through a full .5 liter mug, but can't read at all when it's emptied;-)

cactusgarrett said:

If you use the right yeast, too, you won't need a diacetyl rest, either.

Click to expand...

Which yeast is that?

ewbish said:

I've skipped the rest on plenty of lagers.........and never experienced diacytyl once. But, I sure can tell the diff on my pils.......when I look through that glass and it's so clear.....many think I filtered it.

Click to expand...

Are you saying the presence of diacetyl affects the clarity of a beer?

joety said:

Which yeast is that?

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It depends. Some are notorious for throwing diacetyl, where as others don't. Ferment temp also plays a big part. A strain could give some d at 55F whereas it doesn't at 50F.

I have been brewing 37 years and see no need for a step mash at all. You could not tell the difference. Mash at 150 for 1 hour. You could use a water conditioner if you knew what the composition of the water was or use Star Chemicals PH conditioner which keeps the water in the conversion range of 5.2 ph.

Do not boil with the lid on (DMS) and make sure it is a nice rolling boil.

Watch out for boilover (hot break)! You may have to have the flame very low or off if it starts to boil over.

Do not forget the hops (hop schedule).

Use a fining agent such as Whirlfloc the last 15 minutes of the boil.

Chilling to 65 to 70F. Use a copper coil with cold water to chill the wort. Use ice water as necessary through the chiller to get to 65F.

Do not worry about trub and hops, just transfer the whole contents of the boiler to the fermenter after chilling to 65 to 70F. Use ice water as necessary through the chiller. Pond pumps work for the ice water.

Ferment at 53F for 2 weeks and transfer to the secondary and move the temperature to 65F for 4 days rest if diacetyl is detected ( taste ) to let the yeast consume the diacetyl.

Lower to 53F or lower for aging. 6 weeks minimum.

Bottle and carb for 3 to 4 weeks.

Or keg under 10LBS regulated pressure for minimum 7-10 days before drinking.

cactusgarrett said:

Are you saying the presence of diacetyl affects the clarity of a beer?

Click to expand...

No, I'm saying that a diacetyl rest ALSO has the added benefit of helping with clarity......

Like I said........never had a diacetyl problem ever, and I've skipped the rest plenty of times. But I do see a noticeable improvement in clarity when I do a rest.

This is my opinion, but I believe that the act of bringing it up to room temp kind of stimulates the yeast to do a bit of a last lap sprint. Combined with my method of doing the rest by placing the fermenter where I'm going to rack to secondary......allowing it to sit unmoved for 24 hours before racking and thus allowing everything to settle nicely........improves the clarity.

I doubt very much whether the actual presence of diacetyl has any relevance to clarity.

You bring up a good point. I've always moved the carboy from the fermentation freezer to it's racking position about 4 hrs before racking to secondary or keg...it definitely helps. When dry hopping, I drop the temp to 50 after fermentation is done, in order to get rid of as much yeast as possible before transferring to secondary to dry hop.

WBC said:

I have been brewing 37 years and see no need for a step mash at all. You could not tell the difference.

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A voice of sanity!!!!

I only really do a step mash anymore if it's a really high % of rye or wheat. I do a gum rest then bump it up to 150 or so.

thanks for the input so far on the mash guys. I am stuck with the dry yeast for now(No LHBS on an island in middle of pacific ocean). I will pitch it rehydrated into chilled wort two packs per 5 gal. I can use this temp controlled freezer to lager after kegging the beer, but my kegerator has lots of room in it and we pay more for electric than anyplace else in the US. Any reason not to lager at 38- 40 degrees?

Dr. Fedwell said:

thanks for the input so far on the mash guys. I am stuck with the dry yeast for now(No LHBS on an island in middle of pacific ocean). I will pitch it rehydrated into chilled wort two packs per 5 gal. I can use this temp controlled freezer to lager after kegging the beer, but my kegerator has lots of room in it and we pay more for electric than anyplace else in the US. Any reason not to lager at 38- 40 degrees?

Click to expand...

Nah, should be fine lagering at those temps. Good luck and enjoy!