Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

I am pressure fermenting an APA that ended up at 1.062 vs 1.054 target on a slurry repitch of Pacman yeast. I kept the internal temp at 63deg and no more than 5psi for the first week. I then ramped slowly over the second week to 15psi and have maintained at 62-64 deg ferm. Late last week I was at 1.022 and this morning I'm at 1.02. I let the keg ramp up to 68 deg because I am concerned about the yet still high FG. Now granted it hasn't been a month yet but I'm curious in a couple factors. 1) effect of high psi on attenuation. 2) effect if temperature, and 3) potential slurry rep itch issues with pacman.

The grain bill for 10 gallon was 20lb rahr 2 row, 2 lb Vienna, 2 lb crystal 60. Presided FG should be around 1.012-1.014.

Has anyone here experienced higher FG's due to similar variables?

Flananuts

flananuts said:

I am pressure fermenting an APA that ended up at 1.062 vs 1.054 target on a slurry repitch of Pacman yeast. I kept the internal temp at 63deg and no more than 5psi for the first week. I then ramped slowly over the second week to 15psi and have maintained at 62-64 deg ferm. Late last week I was at 1.022 and this morning I'm at 1.02. I let the keg ramp up to 68 deg because I am concerned about the yet still high FG. Now granted it hasn't been a month yet but I'm curious in a couple factors. 1) effect of high psi on attenuation. 2) effect if temperature, and 3) potential slurry rep itch issues with pacman.

The grain bill for 10 gallon was 20lb rahr 2 row, 2 lb Vienna, 2 lb crystal 60. Presided FG should be around 1.012-1.014.

Has anyone here experienced higher FG's due to similar variables?

Flananuts

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Have you been shaking the crap out of the keg??

I did shake it up quite a bit last week. I will give it a good shake this morning. The other variable I didn't add is mashed at 151-152 on the nose.

flananuts said:

Now granted it hasn't been a month yet but I'm curious in a couple factors. 1) effect of high psi on attenuation. 2) effect if temperature, and 3) potential slurry rep itch issues with pacman.

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FWIW, I used Pacman yeast about a year ago and wasn't impressed. I pitched a sufficient amount @ 62F and had difficulty reaching FG. After a week at 72F, the gravity had improved but was still a few points above where it should've been.

My recommendation - ferment Pacman at 65+F or use Denny's Favorite 50 if you're looking for a similar yeast profile without the fuss.

Thanks, I shook it up once more, and used a heat lamp to raise the ferm chamber to 69 degrees(internal read via thermowell) and will check in a couple more days. Funny thing is the slurry I used for this beer attenuated down to the proper FG. Two other differences were I was using a canadian 2 row malt before and this beer the base malt was rahr 2 row base malt.

I just started my starter for a springtime maibock that I'm excited to brew.

I'd really like to brew up a Green Flash clone Memorial day weekend. But has anyone solved how to dry hop when you're fermenting in sankes?

I sometimes dry hop in the serving keg (corny), but this one requires about 5+ ounces for dry hopping and my tea balls can't hold that much. I also left all my dry hops in until the kegs kicked last time and felt was not optimal.

Anyone have a good system? If not, my best solution is likely to jbweld a hook onto a corny lid and try to hang some hop bags from them so I can retrieve them later.

How are you guys making iPas when fermenting in. Sanke?

Dgonza9 said:

I'd really like to brew up a Green Flash clone Memorial day weekend. But has anyone solved how to dry hop when you're fermenting in sankes?

I sometimes dry hop in the serving keg (corny), but this one requires about 5+ ounces for dry hopping and my tea balls can't hold that much. I also left all my dry hops in until the kegs kicked last time and felt was not optimal.

Anyone have a good system? If not, my best solution is likely to jbweld a hook onto a corny lid and try to hang some hop bags from them so I can retrieve them later.

How are you guys making iPas when fermenting in. Sanke?

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When I ferment in sanke kegs I throw pellets right in. If I am using leaf I put them in a bag and dry hop in my serving kegs. For my IPA and IIPA I usually figure my hop bill so I do half as pellets in the sanke and the other half as leaf in the serving kegs

when I dry hopped, I did the same. I did however keep my psi around 5psi so when it was time to open up the fermentor it didn't take much. I then also purged the kettle back to my desired pressure using co2. When you crash the beer, it will all drop out.

So as long as I cold crash before retransferring to serving keg I can toss five ounces of hops in there? No problems with clogging the sanke dip tube? (I trimmed mine). No problems cleaning hop sludge from inside a sanke?

Great news! Green flash here I come!

So, you guys have put pellets directly into the Sankes??? I am using a filter for my transfers (counter-pressure), and could easily add hops during the last remaining gravity points to dry hop and still have my carbonation end up right. So long as my dip tube/assembly doesn't get clogged I wouldn't worry about the filter so much. Tell me more about Sanke dry hopping, as tea balls didn't work for me and hop tea ended in a bust as well.

Wasn't the suggestion here that if you cold crash the hop materials would settle to the bottom and therefore not clog the spear during transfer?

Wortmonger, have you tried this? Can anyone confirm?

No, I have done tea balls and hop tea, but never tried directly adding pellets to the keg.

My experience with pellets in a sankey sucked. My spear isn't cut short, I crash cooled and when I went to pressure transfer and filter, the spear instantly clogged.

I'm going to put hop bags in the corny serving kegs next time.

That is what I figured would happen with a Sanke spear. I was just wondering if someone actually had success because it seemed so illogical to me.

WortMonger said:

That is what I figured would happen with a Sanke spear. I was just wondering if someone actually had success because it seemed so illogical to me.

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I don't use the original sanke spear, I use the brewers hardware sanke fermenter conversion and I start with the dip tube high and push it down till it just starts picking up sediment then back it off.

Sorry I forgot to include that earlier.

I've done it too with my set-up which is similar to the brewers hardware kit. I crash cool, add gelatin or biofine and transfer with the height adjustable racking tube.

I don't use the spear, I use the kit with the adjustable racking cane. I do also happen to filter through a 1 micron filter after one week at 32 deg and I have no clogs. Now the time I thought I could dry hop in my corny serving kegs. . .(insert explicatives).

Well, I think I'm back to dry hopping in corny keg in bags.

Are you guys siphoning or pushing with gas?

Dgonza9 said:

Well, I think I'm back to dry hopping in corny keg in bags.

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This is what I'm going to try next.

Any draw backs?

Dgonza9 said:

Are you guys siphoning or pushing with gas?

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I'm clogging my spear by pushing the big ball of hops with gas!!

lamarguy said:

Fiberglass Media, Polypropylene Core, with SS Ring - $36

Polypropylene Media, Polypropylene Core, without SS Ring - $31.25

I wouldn't recommend relying on Star San to sanitize a filter. Heat is your friend. 200F for 5 minutes is considered sterile if that is your goal.

I've been using pasteurization temperatures (162F - 170F) for 10 minutes with excellent results. Yeast and bacteria capable of growing in beer can not survive pasteurization temperatures.

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I'm looking to get a filter to use between fermenter and serving corny. Can someone help me confirm what I need? I usually buy the wrong item. Do I just need the filter mentioned above and a high temp ten inch housing for it? Like this?

What would be the difference between this filter and the so called commercial, beer filters on the same site? Like this Does this commercial filter just fit into a ten inch housing as well?

I'd get the high temp housing for sanitation purposes. I'm not intending to filter boiling wort.

Thanks for the advice. I've been waiting too long for beers to clear lately. Plus, I want to keg some beer I can take to a golf weekend. These days, if I even move a keg around in my kegerator so much sediment kicks up I have to wait a week for it to settle again.

cmuench said:

I'm clogging my spear by pushing the big ball of hops with gas!!

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Yeah, that's why I was so surprised when a couple of folks mentioned just throwing the hops in the sanke. I didn't realize they were using an adjustable racking cane. Sorry if I lead you down the wrong road. I suppose you can siphon the beer with a racking cane, no? That is, if you still have one hanging around your brewery.

flananuts said:

Now the time I thought I could dry hop in my corny serving kegs. . .(insert explicatives).

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Surescreen filter


Slip it over your liquid "out" tube and feel protected.

lamarguy said:

Surescreen filter

Slip it over your liquid "out" tube and feel protected.

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LOL!!!

Actually, they have a disclaimer with this thing saying pellet hops will clog it. I'm not sure that will work for me or be any better than the tea balls I currently use, other than allowing more dry hops to go into the keg.

Does anyone use a surescreen? Do pellet hops work with it?

Sorry to keep posting. I'm still looking for advice on filtering. My goal is just to be able to get clear beer that can travel with me in a keg without kicking up so much sediment that the beer is undrinkable. Right now, simply moving a corny around in my kegerator makes the beer so cloudy I wouldn't even drink it. I'm not looking to sterilize with the filter.

So with this as a goal, what size filter should I get? I was considering 1 micron, but now I read that could be too small. So I was considering getting a five micron filter as well. But then I'm not sure how I could use both in series without buying another filter housing for $50. I was considering filtering cooled wort going from the keggle to the fermenter, but then I'd have change the way I usually pitch the yeast, hence the need for another housing. I'm not even sure this last idea is a keeper.

In searching Homebrewtalk I see there are people claiming great results from $18 home depot filter system with 30 micron filters. This surprises me to say the least.

Wortmonger. I see you talk about "autoclaving" your filter. Do you have an actual autoclave? I think I've read they use steam to sanitize. Or do you somehow use a more common household oven?

Any advice would be appreciated. I'd like to pull this together in the next few weeks. One final question, where can I find a clear housing?

Dgonza9 said:

Sorry to keep posting. I'm still looking for advice on filtering.

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This thread contains a wealth of information on filtering (e.g., tradeoffs, part #'s, etc.). Yes, it's not very well organized, but it's there.

To answer your basic question - <= 0.6 micron is sterile, 1 micron is "fine", and 5 micron is "coarse".

I recommend 5 micron filtration for all except "bright" beers (e.g., pilsner, kolsch). 1 micron will strip a small amount of flavor (not enough to be concerned about). I can't recommend sterile filtration unless you're allergic to yeast.

One note about the sure screen:

I use it, but my only (small) beef (not about the product in particular...just its use) is that you miss a good pint of liquid in the bottom. If you put the hops in a bag, you could pull them out of the liquid to get as much as possible. Actually, now that I mention it, its not a big deal. But its hard to open a keg to find a bunch of liquid at the bottom...

Dgonza9 said:

Wortmonger. I see you talk about "autoclaving" your filter. Do you have an actual autoclave? I think I've read they use steam to sanitize. Or do you somehow use a more common household oven?

Any advice would be appreciated. I'd like to pull this together in the next few weeks. One final question, where can I find a clear housing?

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Here's the filter housing I use: http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/...-Residential-Filter-Housing-|-FH4200CW14.html

Here's the filter I bought for it: http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/...h-DOE-End-Cap-%2d-FPP%2d0.45%2d975%2dDOE.html

I love that they are both 100% poly, which is 100% autoclavable. I autoclave in my 23qt pressure canner by Presto: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Presto-23-Qt-Pressure-Canner/2625289

I simply add a little water to the canner, then add another vessel like a double boiler to hold my filter and housing. I do remove the black rubber seals where only the poly goes in. I go for 20 minutes at 15psi, then let it naturally cool. I highly recommend the canner for peace of mind. I can stick my Therminator in there and leave it for brew day, the thing is just awesome!!! Not to mention canning starter wort, or canning extra dinner. If I cook too much I always can the left-overs.

I need to rig up a counter-flow cleaner for the filter and housing. I transfer-filter post fermentation and then use the same setup to filter pre-tap. I have been getting yeast when I move the filter housing around, which makes me think I am doing something wrong since it should continue to filter. Still, I love filtering and have yet to try a keg after transfer without the filter still attached for serving... so it could just be me using the filter wrong and not cleaning it before serving (I need to rig up more beerline since I am forced to have the filter inline right now )

lamarguy said:

This thread contains a wealth of information on filtering (e.g., tradeoffs, part #'s, etc.). Yes, it's not very well organized, but it's there.

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Thanks.... LOL So true though!

lamarguy said:

To answer your basic question - <= 0.6 micron is sterile, 1 micron is "fine", and 5 micron is "coarse".

I recommend 5 micron filtration for all except "bright" beers (e.g., pilsner, kolsch). 1 micron will strip a small amount of flavor (not enough to be concerned about). I can't recommend sterile filtration unless you're allergic to yeast.

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Just to let you know my perspective after filtering... I see no taste decrease with .45 micron absolute, so....

Thank you, guys. Thanks for the links, Wortmonger. Do you filter this fine right from the fermenter after crash cooling? Or do you first filter coarsely at 5 micron or so?

Dgonza9 said:

Thank you, guys. Thanks for the links, Wortmonger. Do you filter this fine right from the fermenter after crash cooling? Or do you first filter coarsely at 5 micron or so?

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Get the clear housing so you can see whats going on in the filter. Don't spend $80 on a filter.

I've been using either a 5micron or 1micron filter from the sankey fermenter to 3 serving cornies. My beer is perfectly clear.

I've been sanitizing the housing and filter in a 5 gal bucket of S san.

I haven't used the sure screen condom, but I sure would feel a lot safer using it. Do you still get the same feeling using it?

Dgonza9 said:

Thank you, guys. Thanks for the links, Wortmonger. Do you filter this fine right from the fermenter after crash cooling? Or do you first filter coarsely at 5 micron or so?

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Yep, right off the yeast. No problems with clogging anything, which was my worry before I started. Since I filter 15 gallons of beer, I would think anyone would be fine under the same circumstances.

I'm in the middle of my first real pressure ferment (and it's going well!) 5 gallons in a Corny works well, with no blow off!

Anyways, either I really need a refractometer, or I need a new method (I don't have a vacuum packer) to eliminate the bubbles when taking a hydrometer reading. Any ideas? I don't remember seeing any other than you posted in this thread..

Well, the only other option is to let it sit out until it is flat. Might try your fridge for a day covered in Saran Wrap. I highly suggest a refractometer, as they come in very handy during the brewing process. They are even handier for the predicament you are facing right now.

Hey Wort,

Can you tell me what size the outlet of that filter housing is? I had an option to choose a size for the inlet. Is the outlet size the same as the inlet on these things?

I want to send away for some fitting so I can filter some beer next weekend. The filter and housing aren't arriving until Wednesday or Thursday, so I need to order my fittings ahead of time.

Appreciate it.

I ordered 1/4" for mine to fit (or closely fit) my beer lines of 3/16"ID. That is why I love that filter housing. I plan on a post-boil hop back/coarse filter one day with 1/2" fittings.

I am planning on making all my lines universal though at 1/4"ID and using those emulsion mixer inserts to slow the beer down. Glad they will still fit this housing.

Can the refractometer be used through the fermentation process and replace the hydrometer reading completely? I can see the value in using it in the sparge process to prevent over sparging, but I thought you would still want to use the hydrometer. If I can use the refractometer instead that would be great.

WortMonger said:

I ordered 1/4" for mine to fit (or closely fit) my beer lines of 3/16"ID. That is why I love that filter housing. I plan on a post-boil hop back/coarse filter one day with 1/2" fittings.

I am planning on making all my lines universal though at 1/4"ID and using those emulsion mixer inserts to slow the beer down. Glad they will still fit this housing.

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So the 1/4" inlet comes with 1/4" outlet as well?

The refractometer can replace the hydrometer, but some say it's not quite as accurate as a properly calibrated hydrometer. Also, you have to account for the alcohol in the solution and do some calculations to convert the refractometer reading to a "gravity" reading (since even though there are say 1.015 gravity points of sugar, the presence of 5% alcohol lowers that). Check this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/refractometer-hydrometer-185755/

flananuts said:

Can the refractometer be used through the fermentation process and replace the hydrometer reading completely? I can see the value in using it in the sparge process to prevent over sparging, but I thought you would still want to use the hydrometer. If I can use the refractometer instead that would be great.

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The refractometer works great with this technique. Its a real PIA to degas a hydrometer sample to get an SG. Use the refract with a couple of drops and you're good to go.

Morebeer.com has an excel spread sheet

http://morebeer.com/learn_vids/vids_refract

with the conversion factor built in. The refractometer isn't accurate when there's alcohol present, so the spreadsheet corrects for that.