Efficiency debacle

I brewed an IPA last night with the following:

10# Pale 2-row
4# Muntons
1# 10L
.5# 20L
.125# Carapils

I mashed it for 60 minutes at about 156-158 and then recirculated the first runnings. I sparged with about 5 gallons of water to collect 6 gallons of wort. It should have come out to an efficiency of above 1.07 but I only got it to 1.054. I've even gone as far to get a grain mill to mash my grains better than at the store. WHAT IS GOING ON

Looks like you got an efficiency of 50% ish. I would look at the crush from the mill (did you adjust the rollers?)

Another thing would be to make sure you are stirring the mash really well.

If you're getting a poor crush or not stirring enough your efficiency will suck.

I did adjust the rollers but how small is too small for the crush? I felt like I was getting either flour or what I got. I stirred plenty well so I'm pretty sure that is not the problem.

SONICYOUTH said:

I brewed an IPA last night with the following:

10# Pale 2-row
4# Muntons
1# 10L
.5# 20L
.125# Carapils

I mashed it for 60 minutes at about 156-158 and then recirculated the first runnings. I sparged with about 5 gallons of water to collect 6 gallons of wort. It should have come out to an efficiency of above 1.07 but I only got it to 1.054. I've even gone as far to get a grain mill to mash my grains better than at the store. WHAT IS GOING ON

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So you collected only 1 gallon from the mash and 5 from the sparge? Sounds like a really thick mash. Temperature could come down a couple of degrees, too.

How much should I be collecting from the initial mash then?

If you do a batch sparge.... everything from the initial mash. Was the mash tun completely drained? How many gallons did you mash with?

I mashed with about 4-5 gallons of water. How much should I be getting BEFORE I sparge?

librewer said:

If you do a batch sparge.... everything from the initial mash.

Click to expand...

This is not my understanding of batch sparge nor my practice.

When you mash in, you want somewhere between 1.25-2 quarts of mash water per pound of grain. I aim for 1.4qt. In your case, you're looking at ~22 quarts or 5.5 gallons of strike water (initial infusion).

After your mash time expires, you drain the 1st runnings and add the sparge water you've been heating while you wait. Grain absorbs somewhere around .12-.15 gal of water/pound (in your recipe, about 2.4 gallons), so you should get about 3-3.25 gallons first runnings.

If you want to start your boil with 6 gallons, it's simple math from here. 6 gallons pre-boil (goal) - 3.25 1st runnings = 2.75 gallons needed. Since the grain is pretty much full of water, you don't need to worry about absorbtion. Sparge volume is 2.75 gallons... let it sit 10 mins or so while the 1st runnings heat, then drain until you have your 6 gallons pre-boil volume.

The sparge/2nd runnings rinses a lot of sugar that was left behind by the original mash. Should help your efficiency a LOT!

If you add 4.5 gal to the mash, that is about a 1.5 qt/lb. ratio. The grain will absorb about 1.4 to 1.5 gal leaving you with about 3 gal from the initial mash (first runnings) excluding any loss from dead space in the mash tun.

Aha. It sounds like I've been collecting too little from the first draining of my mash and sparging a bit too much. Gracias.

Is it just me or is this grain bill MASSIVE for a 5 gallon batch? 11.65lbs PLUS 4# of extract?!?

the Muntons is a pale row as well, not an extract.

SONICYOUTH said:

the Muntons is a pale row as well, not an extract.

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Still seems like a ton of grain for a 5g. batch that's not a stout, etc.

OK, now you're looking at about 6 gal to mash-in with if you shoot for a 1.5 qt/lb. ratio.

Piratwolf... actually I think we are on the same page. I was referring to the initial draining of the mash tun, not the sparge. You got it right on the grain... I assumed the Muntons was extract as well.

It comes out to about 7.5 abv if the efficiency was on, which really isn't extreme in my opinion.

I got 70% efficiency hitting a 1.088 OG beer using a water to grain ratio of 1 to 1. It was a thick mash and I double batch sparged... by far my best job with efficiency considering it was a high gravity beer. Also make sure the sparges bring the temp of the grain to the upper 160's.

librewer said:

OK, now you're looking at about 6 gal to mash-in with if you shoot for a 1.5 qt/lb. ratio.

Piratwolf... actually I think we are on the same page. I was referring to the initial draining of the mash tun, not the sparge. You got it right on the grain... I assumed the Muntons was extract as well.

Click to expand...

AH! I see where you're coming from. Didn't occur to me to think extract! Cheers

I can't speak for batch sparging since I've always done fly sparging. For me, I've always gotten 75-80% efficiency using a cooker mashtun. I feel the critical variables are a slow sparge(~5min/gallon collecting in the Bk), and a vigorous boil, so you can collect more in the bk from sparge, lose more water, and thus concentrate your sugars more.

Since I've moved to a HERMS, I'm hitting around 90%. I assume this is due to adding recirculation for the mash as well as having a mash out to ~170F before starting sparge.

What is the gravity of the wort when you stop collecting? There's one thing that cuts across all mash/sparge techniques: if you leave sugar in your mash tun, it's going to waste and that's going to show in your efficiency.
I let the refractometer tell me when to stop collecting rather than some arbitrary desired boil-pot volume. I'd rather boil down and get that sugar into my beer than pour it down the drain. I make the assumption, reasonably valid, I think, that if the wort coming out of my tun drops below 1.010, nothing any sweeter is going to be left behind.
Once I brewed a batch with a re-frac I decided I never wanted to do without.

Mash thicker, say 1 to 1.25 qts/lb, then batch sparge 2 or 3 times.