Brewing in Basement

What does everyone think of brewing in the basement with propane? I have an unfinished basement with a large escape window in one corner that I could open for ventilation. I figured I could also have a fan going in the oposite corner to help push CO out the window. CO seems the only real worry.

I did see a video of someone doing this. He had built a exterior door with two fans in it on one side to draw in fresh air, plus a large exhaust fan on the other side. Then he had at least one CO detector and a big fire extinguisher on hand. Seemed to work for him, but I don't know if I'd be comfortable with doing it.

Fireman1317 said:

What does everyone think of brewing in the basement with propane? I have an unfinished basement with a large escape window in one corner that I could open for ventilation. I figured I could also have a fan going in the oposite corner to help push CO out the window. CO seems the only real worry.

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A fireman asking if he should use propane in his basement? hahaha

I would not recommend it (i'm assuming you are using a turkey fryer)

From http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm

Properly functioning propane appliances will produce what is called an "ideal burn" during combustion and present no danger of Carbon Monoxide poisoning.

It goes on to describe in such a manner that I would not hesitate to brew in the basement.

danorocks17 said:

A fireman asking if he should use propane in his basement? hahaha

I would not recommend it (i'm assuming you are using a turkey fryer)

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Thats the whole reason I'm asking for others thoughts. As a Fire Fighter, it does not worry me a bit, but then again you have to be slightly crazy for this career any way. Really just looking for others experience with doing this.

I suppose you could pull it off. Still if you have access to either a garage or a deck/patio I would readily change my plans to one of those options.

CO is nothing to mess around with. Had a bad experience at work once where we had to call in the Fire Dept!

Fireman1317 said:

Thats the whole reason I'm asking for others thoughts. As a Fire Fighter, it does not worry me a bit, but then again you have to be slightly crazy for this career any way. Really just looking for others experience with doing this.

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very true, my cousin is a firefighter in Westfield and he has always been slightly off! j/k, he's a great guy. Haven't met a firefighter I didn't like.

I guess it just depends on what you are confortable with. I never really thought about the CO issue, I'd just be worried about burning down my house. I have a bad history with fire

I've seen plenty of people that set up home breweries with propane in their basement, but they almost always have an oven hood above their setup.

If you can, I'd put that fan IN the large window blowing out, not in the opposite corner, and if you feel even the slight bit woozy, step out for fresh air.

As a fellow firefighter, I'd say go for it. Make sure you have great ventilation and a CO detector with a digital readout. You should be fine.

Stay safe brother. Both at work and when brewing!

Propane burns much cleaner than Natural Gas so you should be just fine.
I use modern vent free natural gas heaters (not nearly as clean as propane) that I run all winter and my CO sensors have yet to go off. Make sure you adjust you air intake to get a pretty blue flame, in that case you shouldn't have anything to worry about. I would install a CO sensor in the basement and in the house just in case:

In the presence of excess oxygen, propane burns to form water and carbon dioxide.
C3H8 + 5 O2 → 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + heat
propane + oxygen → carbon dioxide + water
Vents are recommended to vent off the water vapor that could cause excess condensation and form mold.

When not enough oxygen is present for complete combustion, incomplete combustion occurs when propane burns and forms water, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and carbon.
2 C3H8 + 7 O2 → 2 CO2 + 2 CO + 2 C + 8 H2O + heat
Propane + Oxygen → Carbon dioxide + Carbon monoxide + Carbon + Water
Yellow flames and black carbon deposits on the bottom of your kettles are good signs of incomplete combustion.

I would only do it with good ventilation and a CO detector. I would never try it if my only detection of CO was when I keeled over. Do canaries work for CO detection?

I would say no, but please, for the love of god, if you decide to go with this, tell it to your insurance company beforehand. It's not once the house is gone and the fire department discovers you've been using a propane burner inside that it'll be time to wonder if they'll cover it or not.

Fireman1317 said:

What does everyone think of brewing in the basement with propane? I have an unfinished basement with a large escape window in one corner that I could open for ventilation. I figured I could also have a fan going in the oposite corner to help push CO out the window. CO seems the only real worry.

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I am building a brew room in my basement. I intend to use propane. I am certain it is safe. Here is what I plan:

1. Determine cubic feet of room (577 for me) and install and exhaust fan that will cycle the air in 5 minutes or less (for me 140 CFM 6 inch duct). Make sure fan is 36 to 24 inches from the floor as combustion gasses are heavier than air.

2. Install a fresh air in fan at least 50% of the of the exhaust fan. For me this will be an 80 CFM inline fan in a 4 inch duct.

3. Install the fresh air in exterior vent as far from the exterior exhaust vent as possible. (For me fresh air in is on the north side or house and the exhaust is on the west side of house.)

4. Do not use high pressure burners indoors, they push too much gas and do not burn as clean. They will leave a lot of unburned propane in the air. Use low pressure burners with a low pressure regulator.

5. Make sure to have Class B fire extinguisher big enough to handle your burner size. Install a CO detector and a smoke detector.

6. Ensure the room is protected form the airborne moisture generated by brewing.

7. If using portable tanks do not leave them in house when not in use. Disconnect them and take them outside.

My entire house is propane because natural gas is not available as are many across the country. Using common sense and some planning and caution the use of propane in a basement can be safe IMHO.

George

I'd be more concerned about the boil off damaging something.


I also enjoy being outside, even in winter. And clean up is a breeze

doctorRobert said:

I'd be more concerned about the boil off damaging something.


I also enjoy being outside, even in winter. And clean up is a breeze

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When the wind is at 25 to 30 mph and the temp is 5F and wind chill is -25F brewing outside is not an option. Not to mention Jan-Feb-Mar we have 48 to 56 inches of snow on the ground... that is a good time to go ice fishing but getting 5 gallons to boil is a real challenge!!!

BrewerinBR said:

When the wind is at 25 to 30 mph and the temp is 5F and wind chill is -25F brewing outside is not an option. Not to mention Jan-Feb-Mar we have 48 to 56 inches of snow on the ground... that is a good time to go ice fishing but getting 5 gallons to boil is a real challenge!!!

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Its like that every winter day where you live? On the ground is different than from the sky. Dig yourself out a little spot.

I get snow too. Its cold where i live too. Most days are somewhat sunny with little precipitation.

I brewed a marzen last winter on the day we got a storm with two feet of snow. The key is to finish brewing before the heavy stuff comes.

CO poisoning cannot be reversed. If you tangle with it you may as well hope it kills you.

doctorRobert said:

Its like that every winter day where you live? On the ground is different than from the sky. Dig yourself out a little spot.

I get snow too. Its cold where i live too. Most days are somewhat sunny with little precipitation.

I brewed a marzen last winter on the day we got a storm with two feet of snow. The key is to finish brewing before the heavy stuff comes.

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Weather is irrelevant; the question is can propane be used safely indoors and the answer is yes. There are millions of rural house holds in the USA to prove it. Next question can it be used safely in a basement? The answer is yes and the numerous basement apartments I have seen and lived in prove that.

Propane can be used safely indoors even in a basement if common sense is applied and appropriate research is conducted. I have used propane most of my life in basements, houses, garages, heck even in tents, in sheds and even in the deer blind.

Should a person use a turkey fryer indoors? NO

Should a person use an outdoor rated burner indoors? NO

The general statement "OMG don't use propane inside you'll die or burn down your house" is basically not reality. Many Americans who choose to live in rural environments use propane because it is an economical and efficient energy source and is safe if used appropriately. Should everyone stop using electricity because some idiot electrocuted himself trying to wire his brewery, or natural gas needs to be outlawed because a brewer burnt up his shed. Please lets get real.

Ok Rant Over...

BrewerinBR said:

Weather is irrelevant; the question is can propane be used safely indoors and the answer is yes. There are millions of rural house holds in the USA to prove it. Next question can it be used safely in a basement? The answer is yes and the numerous basement apartments I have seen and lived in prove that.

Propane can be used safely indoors even in a basement if common sense is applied and appropriate research is conducted. I have used propane most of my life in basements, houses, garages, heck even in tents, in sheds and even in the deer blind.

Should a person use a turkey fryer indoors? NO

Should a person use an outdoor rated burner indoors? NO

The general statement "OMG don't use propane inside you'll die or burn down your house" is basically not reality. Many Americans who choose to live in rural environments use propane because it is an economical and efficient energy source and is safe if used appropriately. Should everyone stop using electricity because some idiot electrocuted himself trying to wire his brewery, or natural gas needs to be outlawed because a brewer burnt up his shed. Please lets get real.

Ok Rant Over...

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I don't get the vibe that mr fireman is planning on remodeling his whole basement as you are doing. He is probably thinking of sticking a turkey fryer down there and opening a couple of windows.

I_B_Mongo said:

Make sure you have great ventilation and a CO detector with a digital readout. You should be fine.

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My thoughts exactly...

I have brewed in my basement multiple times with a co detector and have found higher co levels in my kitchen when using the stove. Only got up to I think 60 ppm. I still open the door periodically. It's nice not having wind affect burner and having the washing machine connections close by for the wort chiller is a plus.

However the humidity during boil is insane. I can watch my water pipes sweat and drip on the floor.

Oh and I keep a fire extinguisher handy.

Propane burns clean, I have an unvented propane heater in my basement. No issues. It does not burn at the levels of doing full 5 gallon boils. It all comes down to properly venting it. I also plan on building a brew area in my basement. I will use indoor rated equipment and vent properly.