barleywine assistance

i am planning a christmas brew day, with barleywine on the menu. i am searching for a recipe, so if anyone has something AG & special up there sleeves please advise. I have a wyeast trappist and white labs high gravity starter, i plan to pitch both into something with a scary high OG. since this is one i plan to age for.. what a year.. i do not want to totally cowboy this one and end up with a faulty final product. Thanks for your help.

duplicated...see post #3

The trappist ale yeast is very estrous; is that what you're looking for in your barleywine? I only ask because this is somewhat unusual for the style.

thanks for the advice.. would the white labs high gravity be adequate?
Im not necisarily trying to make the ipidimy of the style... in fact i am thinking using the 999 barleywine as a base to build off of..
i like what otter creek did with Quercus Vitis Humulus, i may dump some grape juice in this instead of the sugar the 999 called for.... ok i guess i am totally going cowboy on this... but i tried it & it worked with a batch of a midas touch clone i tried a couple times. but obviously that did not have this kind of gravity to it.. so im stressing about the yeast... oh the humanity to be a noob....

Sounds like you're going to be making something quite interesting! Given what you just explained, I think the White Labs (WPL099) would be an excellent choice for something like this. I has the ability to tolerate the higher alcohol levels and it won't throw off the same sort of belgian-style fruitiness that the trappist ale yeast would. Do you have the time to make a start? Do you have access to some good yeast nutrient?

i made a starter on friday, but i was not able to brew due to the blizzard. i got advice to cold crash the starter, so it is in a jug in the fridge. i guess i will add some DME to in tomorrow for a friday brew. i dont have any yeast nutrients on hand, but my LHBS is not far if it is advised to get some.

For the high gravity stuff, you may not need it, but if you want to play it safe, it might be worth the trip. I have my first barleywine in primary right now. Just brewed it last weekend. I went with the yeast nutrient just to give one more assurance that I'll get the attenuation that I want. I can definitely say that this is the most active primary I've ever had. With the high gravity stuff though, you're probably good with the starter. A lot of folks swear by nutrient for the high gravity beers though. What sort of OG are you shooting for? anything over 1100, I would definitely recommend the starter to save yourself any possible disappointment.

The OG before the grape juice is looking like 1128. I will be adding the grape juice when the fermentation is lively. I have no frame of reference for a barley wine, i took the 999's grain bill and will just substitute the sugar i guess thats the plan for now....
what was your recipe, how did you choose?

I put my recipe together based off of an IPA recipe I formulated a while back and simply ratcheted up the grain bill. I used Ray Daniels book to help guide the proportions and used beer smith to help estimate the numbers. Here's what I basically came up with:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/first-barleywine-152735/

As you can see from the thread though, I did not hit my target gravity and had to suppliment with DME to get it over the 1100 hump. I have some ideas for what I'll do next time, but I'm pretty sure this one will turn out pretty good. I'm shooting for an 11% ABV, which is not a bad start, imo.
Can you show me your recipe? I'd like to see the grainbill and hop schedule.

This was a recipe off this site that was brewed 9/08 for a 999 taste.
apparently there were 2 dozen brewers and they all swapped, but i have not seen too many reviews. i added the choclate and the carafa, to replace light chocolate malt. the 10lbs is maris otter...
5.76g batch
13.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 47.55 %
10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 36.58 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 7.32 %
1.00 lb Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 3.66 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2.74 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 0.91 %
0.17 lb Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 0.62 %
0.17 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 0.62 %
1.5 oz Candi Sugar
1.66 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 39.6 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 9.4 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (25 min) Hops 11.8 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
2 Pkgs xtra high gravity yeast
i will replace the candi sugar with the grape juice

Sounds like a great recipe with a lot of complexity. The grape juice will be highly fermentable and will ad a unique underlying taste. The maris otter is also a nice addition. I think that will be really interesting. You've got a lot of grain here for a 5 gallon batch, so you shouldn't have too many problems with your gravity, But I would definitely recommend having a pound or two of DME to "cheat" with if you end up not getting the efficiency you anticipate. I did that and I'm glad I did. Of course, I should have known that I needed another 10 lbs of grain. To much trust in Beersmith I suppose. I would also recommend continuing your sparge even after you've finished your run off. You'd be surprised at how much sugar is still in there. I was able to make a second batch with just an addition of 3/4 pounds of DME and some molasses. I figure if it sucks, it didn't really cost me anything. Happy brewing! Is it tomorrow? You'll definitely have to give me a debrief and let me know how things went on brew day.

ok.. tomorrow is brewday. i got an extra WL099, and i fed both starters supplements. I got 3#s DME justt in case.. . i am planning to do a long sparge i anticipate pulling 9-10 gallons of sweetwater and do a big boil down..
my wife does a braggot when we have extra sugary grist, its a good idea to add the DME and do a frankenbrew... i did some good extract brews.. when i went AG i just ignored it as a tool. thanks for all your input

what a day. just put a brew bucket to bed.
i did a triple decoction, as my wife is confident that it will yield a better beer. i am unable to get a consensus on mash profiles yet, what do you use? infusion, decoction.. temp mash?
so all was smooth we hit our temps, but the sparge kept yeilding very sweet wort, so i kept sparging... and sparging.. it was a 3 hour boil..we ended up with 13 gallons to boil... we calculated 5.75G we ended with 7G.. and a long brew day.. hit 1.105OG, not bad i guess considering the volume i ended up with. I have some concorde grapes waiting at my LHBS i will juicem and pitch them in 3 days or so..
did an edwort apfelwein while waiting on the protien rests.. a good brewday.. merry friggin christmas.

Hope you guys had an excellent holiday and it sounds like quite a brew day! For my barleywine, I decide to not do a decoction...not sure why though, since I'm typically happy with the results when I do. For the barleywine, I did a simple two-step mash. 45 minutes at 146 and then another 30 minutes at 154. I also took my time with the run off and boiled for two hours. I hit an 1.097 without the DME and 1.103 with the DME. I was expecting better efficiency, but what do ya do? Sound like you wound up with a significant amount post-boil. Did you have to add any of the DME you bought or did you achieve the 1.105 from the grain alone? Do you plan to dry hop? If so, with what and how much?

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!

Been a busy week!!!
Yea, so i hit the 1.1 OG without any DME.. And a couple days ago i pressed 6LBS of muscat grapes, boiled it and dumped it in on day 4 of the fermentation... it is bubbling away still.. I am at a loss how i can calculate the ABV at bottling... any ideas ? Bottling is a long way away for me, i think i will be in the secondary for several months. And the dry hop.. i think i will.. i have a bunch of ideas.. maybe rack to 1 Gallon carboys and do different dry hop amounts and types.. im not sure yet, and will probably change my mind like a dozen times by then..

How long was your barley wine in the fermentor?

We put together a Baltic Porter recipe... the date 01022010 is a palandrome, the same frontwards and back , so we are brewing Palandrome Porter today.

whats brewin with you?

Did you take gravity readings of the grape juice? If not.....

gravity of the grape juice.. damn.. someday i will remember to not forget anything!

pickledherring said:

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!

Been a busy week!!!
Yea, so i hit the 1.1 OG without any DME.. And a couple days ago i pressed 6LBS of muscat grapes, boiled it and dumped it in on day 4 of the fermentation... it is bubbling away still.. I am at a loss how i can calculate the ABV at bottling... any ideas ? Bottling is a long way away for me, i think i will be in the secondary for several months. And the dry hop.. i think i will.. i have a bunch of ideas.. maybe rack to 1 Gallon carboys and do different dry hop amounts and types.. im not sure yet, and will probably change my mind like a dozen times by then..

How long was your barley wine in the fermentor?

We put together a Baltic Porter recipe... the date 01022010 is a palandrome, the same frontwards and back , so we are brewing Palandrome Porter today.

whats brewin with you?

Click to expand...

Yeah, it sounds like you HAVE been busy. I actually haven't racked my BW off of primary yet. it's still bubbling away and I'd imagine I'll have it in primary for about a month before moving it over to secondary for another month or two. I'll dry hop 2 weeks before bottling, then let it condition until around December of 2010. What was the amount of juice you added after your crushed the grapes? I'm not sure what gravities look like on grape juice, but I do know that a pound of adjunct sugars typically add 10 points to the gravity. I like the idea of separate dry hops. You have that many 1 gallon carboys?

I am flush with 1G's, my LHBS has them for 3$ each so i keep picking them up and using them for experiments, i try adding a little bourbon soaked oak beans, honey or maple syrup.... the breaking down into more batches has really sped up the learning curve for me and has increased the selection in my beer fridge!

The day i crushed the grapes i guess i had been doing a bit too much... research.. yea that's it.. research! I usually take copious notes, but in my stupor... not so much. So i don't know the gravity or the volume of juice i added, but it was 6lbs pre-crush. My LHBS is much more a wine making store then brew shop.. my guy there told me that using 6lbs of the concord grapes should equal 1.5lbs of adjunct sugars, he makes up a lot of what he says though... So, are there advantages to aging in the bottle instead of the carboy?

If I were you, I'd just approximate 5 to 10 points on your gravity and call it good. You're going to have a large ABV, so I'm not sure how much hair splitting on the ole gravity is necessary
On the carboy vs. bottling, I would condition for a bit in secondary, but once you get it off the dry hops, I'd go ahead a bottle at the point and just let it sit for months. This will give adequate time to let the flavors mellow out, carbonate and settle. I plan to melt wax over my caps for added seal...and for the fun of it I plan to hand some of these out as gifts next Christmas. The wax will be a nice touch.

I found my primary leaking at the spigot, to my horror i lost a few pints. I racked it to another primary, yeast cake and all. I think i will rack it for real this weekend... i like the wax idea, i saw pictures in a utopia clone thread.. looked really nice.. i grabbed a bunch of belgain 750oz cork bottles from ommegang brewery.. i think i will drive in corks and seal with wax as well.

Sorry to hear about the spigot situation. even just a few pints is enough to break your heart. That will be a nice touch to add to cork bottles. I have a floor corker down in my basement that I've never used...this might be a good excuse! I plan to rack mine to secondary this Saturday. I've had it on this cake for 4 weeks now. I probably could have racked it soon, but I don't want to leave anything to chance. Is there any fermentation activity left in your or are you fully attenuated?

As far as your gravity goes, you probably lowered the overall gravity of the batch, that is unless your grape juice was higher than the ~1.100 you started with.

barleynhops said:

Sorry to hear about the spigot situation. even just a few pints is enough to break your heart. That will be a nice touch to add to cork bottles. I have a floor corker down in my basement that I've never used...this might be a good excuse! I plan to rack mine to secondary this Saturday. I've had it on this cake for 4 weeks now. I probably could have racked it soon, but I don't want to leave anything to chance. Is there any fermentation activity left in your or are you fully attenuated?

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i think i am fully attenuated, and i just racked to a better bottle... It is going to be a long 11 months B4 i taste that sweet barley wine...the corks are a nice touch, when i give out corked beers it seems to make a whole different impression.. strange.. it is whats is inside that bottle that means anything...

maskednegator said:

As far as your gravity goes, you probably lowered the overall gravity of the batch, that is unless your grape juice was higher than the ~1.100 you started with.

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i think i got a boost from the juice.. i condensed it down quite a bit on the stovetop.