First Glass Always Foam

I've got a two tap setup - 2 cornies on a 5lb tank. I've passed maybe 10 kegs through and have been very happy with kegging vs bottling. The last couple kegs however I've been getting all foam for the first glass of the evening.

I've balanced the system per the BYO article a few months ago. Originally the setup had 5ft of 3/16 line and I was not getting continuous flow. It would "burp" every so often, but after balancing things were going great for a bout 2 kegs.

Since it's started foaming, I've adding more line - back to 3feet from 2 - no luck. Refilled the CO2 tank. Tried lowering regulator pressure for serving. And I've noticed that I have a bubble in the beer line before getting that first glass.

I've had the problem with both taps and different beers. Ideas Please?

You might be having a problem with warm taps. Do you have a tower?

Brewtus said:

I've got a two tap setup - 2 cornies on a 5lb tank. I've passed maybe 10 kegs through and have been very happy with kegging vs bottling. The last couple kegs however I've been getting all foam for the first glass of the evening.

I've balanced the system per the BYO article a few months ago. Originally the setup had 5ft of 3/16 line and I was not getting continuous flow. It would "burp" every so often, but after balancing things were going great for a bout 2 kegs.

Since it's started foaming, I've adding more line - back to 3feet from 2 - no luck. Refilled the CO2 tank. Tried lowering regulator pressure for serving. And I've noticed that I have a bubble in the beer line before getting that first glass.

I've had the problem with both taps and different beers. Ideas Please?

Click to expand...

How are your poppet valves? Have you cleaned them? I had problems like this once, and replacing the poppet cleared it right up.

I would definetly say you need more line. you mention only using 2 or 3 feet. If you are using 3/16 inch ID line, you should have one foot of beer line for every 2 PSI.

For example if you PSI on the Keg is set at 12 PSI than you should have 6 feet of 3/16 inch ID line going to your tap. If you are using 1/4 inch line you will require more like 20 feet of line to the tap.

Having said that you may have a fault regulator that is not giving you a consistant flow, as per your "burping" problem or you have a leak in the system somewhere. Possible where a line connects or the tubing attaches to the quick connnects....etc. You could try the soap spray method and check for a small leak. Maybe a connection needs to be replaced, oring has got bad....etc.

IGOR

david_42
I don't have a tower. It's a mini fridge with shanks through the door just at top of the keg height. All of the line is inside the fridge and just the end of the shank and tap are warm. The kegerator is in the garage so certainly could have warm taps, but not sure I could do much better short of moving the kegerator into the house. I'd park it next to the lazy-boy if the wife'd allow it.

bikebryan
I'll try replacing the poppets. The problem does seem to be worse on certain kegs. In fact one of the kegs on tap now just gives a good amount of head instead of 99% foam. I swapped taps and the problem stayed with the keg. I clean all the parts each time the keg is filled, and clean the taps and lines each keg with BLC. I did buy used kegs and replace all the rubber though so maybe poppets worn out.

Igorstein
I've used the equations in Jan-Feb 2006 BYO article to balance the line length. I am using 3/16 ID beer line. According to the article you get 3psi/ft of drop from this tubing, plus another 3 from shank and tap. They suggest 5psi for dispensing pressure, but also indicate that 0.5-1.0 is typical for homebrew setups. So, 12 psi regulator - 3 psi shank/tap - 1psi dispensing pressure and I get 8psi left, at 3psi/ft I get 2.6ft of 3/16 tube. I've tried 2 ft and 3ft but have same problem.

Another balancing link http://www.kegman.net/balance.html. Uses a bit different set of equations but I get 4.4ft of hose using those eqnts. Either way I don't see that I should need 6ft of hose. I had problems at 5ft of hose that I solved by going to 2-3ft.

I'll take the advice on using the soap spray to find a leak. I cannot figure out how I'm getting bubbles in the line. I would think a leak would force beer out and I'd see a leak. The regulator is new, but I'll try swapping it if I can't find anything else.


Thanks to all for the replys. This site is great!

BTW. Both taps serving all-grain pale ale with lots of cascade hops plus dry hopped. MMM Hops.

The beer is out-gassing and creating the bubbles. Foam and bubbles in the line are the same problem.

Bad poppets and beer connectors can cause foaming. Ditto for gunk or restrictions in the taps.

have you dismantled your taps and cleaned them?

I believe your problem is still related to lack of pressure drop/restriction in the beer line. I've got a variety of British and American style taps on my keg fridge as well as party taps and 6 foot length is required for each of them. Most of my kegs are at 12 psi to get the desired carbonation level.

The 3 psi drop through a tap doesn't make sense. Maybe .3 psi?

david_42 said:

The beer is out-gassing and creating the bubbles. Foam and bubbles in the line are the same problem.

Bad poppets and beer connectors can cause foaming. Ditto for gunk or restrictions in the taps.

have you dismantled your taps and cleaned them?

Click to expand...

I take the taps apart and soak in BLC between each keg. I'll be double sure to clean and use the brush on them next time. I'm suspecting the poppets since problem started after getting a second batch of used kegs.

I'm glad you guys suggested that - I never would have suspected them.

Mikey said:

I believe your problem is still related to lack of pressure drop/restriction in the beer line. I've got a variety of British and American style taps on my keg fridge as well as party taps and 6 foot length is required for each of them. Most of my kegs are at 12 psi to get the desired carbonation level.

The 3 psi drop through a tap doesn't make sense. Maybe .3 psi?

Click to expand...

I just can't see 6foot being the right answer. I've seen different sources quote 2.7 to 3 psi per foot of 3/16 line. 6 feet of line gives me 16.2 to 18psi of pressure drop. I'm only working with 13psi to start with.

the article says 3psi for the shank and tap. Maybe it's wrong, but that's what it says...

I have a double tap setup and get more foam out of one than the other. My Pale Ale pours with just the right amount of head after the initial pour of the beer waiting in the tap. However, the Bitter never really gives me the perfect pour (although it did the first week after carbing). I assumed it was the keg and having read this thread, I'm guessing it's the poppet valves. I have the proper length of hose and have the pressure set at 11 psi. What do I need to do to ensure the poppets are cleaned and functioning properly prior to hooking up the next keg?

MilwaukeeHomeBrewer said:

What do I need to do to ensure the poppets are cleaned and functioning properly prior to hooking up the next keg?

Click to expand...

Good question if anyone know how to test them, I'm interested too. I always clean them, but was just planning to replace them to see if the problem clears up.

Brewtus said:

I just can't see 6foot being the right answer. I've seen different sources quote 2.7 to 3 psi per foot of 3/16 line. 6 feet of line gives me 16.2 to 18psi of pressure drop. I'm only working with 13psi to start with.

the article says 3psi for the shank and tap. Maybe it's wrong, but that's what it says...

Click to expand...

OK, but explain this. I keep my kegs at 12 psi. I run 6 feet of restrictor tubing. By your calculations, the beer should need at least another 4.2 psi to even flow out the end.

There's theory, but then there's real life to contend with.

Mikey said:

OK, but explain this. I keep my kegs at 12 psi. I run 6 feet of restrictor tubing. By your calculations, the beer should need at least another 4.2 psi to even flow out the end.

There's theory, but then there's real life to contend with.

Click to expand...

You're missing a fundamental point which is that the pressure drops quoted are based on an assumed flow velocity. If you don't have any flow in the line the pressure drop is zero. The point of the balance is to get flow rate just right. 1 gallon per minute or 1 pint in 7 seconds it quoted. If you have too much line, the beer will flow, but slowy.

You guys who are stuck on the long line length are missing the point that I didn't have the foaming problem show up after balancing the system. It worked great with 2 ft of line for awhile then started foaming. I've toyed with more line trying to solve the problem, but it doesn't fix it. I'm looking for other options.

My beer flows just fine as quoted above, and fills a pint glass in the time span quoted.

Best of luck to you.

Brewtus said:

You're missing a fundamental point which is that the pressure drops quoted are based on an assumed flow velocity. If you don't have any flow in the line the pressure drop is zero. The point of the balance is to get flow rate just right. 1 gallon per minute or 1 pint in 7 seconds it quoted. If you have too much line, the beer will flow, but slowy.

You guys who are stuck on the long line length are missing the point that I didn't have the foaming problem show up after balancing the system. It worked great with 2 ft of line for awhile then started foaming. I've toyed with more line trying to solve the problem, but it doesn't fix it. I'm looking for other options.

Click to expand...

I hate to chime in here, but, if you start out with 12psi and get no flow, your pressure drop is 12psi, not 0. Zero p/d would emply 12psi at the faucet. Or Cv=1, if memory serves.

jim

Brewtus: I may have chimed in too soon, if you ment no flow with the tap closed your correct it would be zero p/d. Only with the tap open and no flow would it be a p/d of 12.

sorry someday i'll learn to read.

jim: