Brewstand build finished! 1st brew today

I do plan to brew tomorrow, Labor Day. My wife has to work, so I firgure I'll do a 10 gallon batch of my house ale: Kimbeerly

You are welcome to come on up.

Cheers,

Wayne

Hey, Wayne. Sorry weather didn't permit brewing last weekend. I'd invite myself over, but I've got a family picnic tomorrow.

Currently sitting in my garage, heating strike water for my partially lacto-soured, dry stout with rye. Hooray for weekends!.

Wayne1 said:

Colorado Malting Company are a GREAT company. Very friendly. They are currently only making 2-row. But at $1.00 a pound it is inexpensive and very high quality.

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That sounds awfully expensive straight from the malt house, isnt it? Is it organic or something?

Wayne1
I really like the whirlpool set up in your BK. Quick question about the inlet. Is that also a welded in double female? Then there would need to be a close nipple- the visible coupler-another close nipple and the elbow? is that correct? I'm wondering about the spacing from the edge of the keg wall. Was there some experimentation to find an optimum spacing for whirlpool effect? Or is this just dictated by the fittings used and has just worked well for 15 yrs? I would love to get a pile like that.
thanks
jason

Nice setup! Welcome back. I'm on a non-voluntary hiatus myself. I've been itching to brew but can not. Anyway, you were a professional brewer, did you go to a school to learn the trade? I've got some extra time on my hands and have been looking to educate myself on brewing.

jwright,

The whirlpool fitting is a double male welded in the kettle. From there I used a double female and a street elbow. Male end screwed into the double female. No real experimentation. It has just worked for me in two different kettles over the years.

(edited because of poor memory. Now has correct plumbing parts)


LarMoeCur,

I never attended any formal brewing school. I think it is more important to have practical, hands-on knowledge than theory. If you want to learn more, volunteer to work for free at a local brew-pub. You will learn more and have an in if they ever are looking for workers.

I brewed at home for many years. I entered every competition I could to get feedback from judges. My beers improved and I received many awards. That is what served me the best when I went for the interview. Also. ALWAYS bring samples of your beers.

The Pol,

For a "boutique" malthouse, their prices are very fair. They can only malt in 1,000 lb batches. I far prefer to go for quality over the cheapest prices. I know the malt is fresh and the barley grown locally. It does add a bit for me to use a local product for a base malt.

I personally wouldnt consider Weyerman, Best Malz or Thomas Fawcett a "cheap" malt. According to the malt analysis anyhow.

Just asking, as $1/pound sounded high for bulk malt purchasing.

Cool that you are using a local product.

I don't consider Weyerman or Thomas Fawcett, cheap. I use a lot of their malts for specialty grains. I am very pleased to be able to purchase them at around $1.50 a pound from the LHBS. I don't use enough to justify keeping 25 kilo sacks of specialty grains around.

50-100 lbs is not exactly "bulk" For the pubs I worked in I would buy in 10,000 and 20,000 lb lots. I still ended up paying around $0.40 delivered for bulk European grains, blown into a silo.

If you can get bagged European grains delivered to you for less than $1.00 a pound, more power to you. I am very happy with the pricing and the quality of the Colorado Malting Company.

Mid Country, North Country Malts sell 55 pound sacks for $.49-$.65 per pound. The higher end being MO, Pilsner and such. Luckily I dont have to have it shipped.

Wayne1 said:

I do plan to brew tomorrow, Labor Day. My wife has to work, so I firgure I'll do a 10 gallon batch of my house ale: Kimbeerly

You are welcome to come on up.

Cheers,

Wayne

Click to expand...

Didn't get this till today. Been off the map for a couple weeks. Lemme know when you are brewing again!

Now that GABF is over, I have a trade show to attend this coming weekend.

I probably won't be brewing again until the weekend of October 10-11.

Hi Wayne,

Hope you had a good time at the GABF. One question, with all your experience what made you go with a CFC vs. a plate chiller on your rig? This is the last part I'm still up in the air on for my build. I have a plate, but was waiting for BobbyM's opinion on his whirlpool IM. Just thought I'd get your take on it.

Dog House Brew said:

Hi Wayne,

Hope you had a good time at the GABF. One question, with all your experience what made you go with a CFC vs. a plate chiller on your rig? This is the last part I'm still up in the air on for my build. I have a plate, but was waiting for BobbyM's opinion on his whirlpool IM. Just thought I'd get your take on it.

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If you have a plate, use it. It is more efficient. I already had a CFC from my first go round in homebrewing. I did think about going for one, but the CFC works fine for me. I can cool the wort to pitching temps as fast as I can pump.

The CFC is a bit easier to clean. As there are no channels, there is no space for debris to hide. Using a plate chiller in the brewpub systems, I always disassembled it once a yet for a through mechanical cleaning.

As I mentioned, I can cool 11 gallons of wort to pitching temps as fast as I can pump, roughly 7-12 minutes. I do not believe you can chill wort that fast with an immersion chiller. I happen to feel that it is important to whirlpool first and then cool as rapidly as possible. With the system I have, I am able to do just that. I am sure there are other methods to do the same thing. I chose the components for my system based on what I was familiar with, what I already owned and the best compromise between cost and operation.

Thanks Wayne, hard to not listen to people on here that have had brewery experience.

Not sure how I missed this thread. Love the system and will have to take some time today to read thru all the post. :rockin:

Well damn!

Thanks for the kind words on my new stand, Wayne. But, now it looks like a sad little pile of scrap metal to me!

Your stand is truly a beautiful thing and I think, as others have stated, the panel on the front gives a super-clean, very pro look to it. After brewing on my stand yesterday, I was discussing with a friend the benefits of using a more "complete" system and looking forward to my next set up and improving my process further. I would not be surprised if it ends up very similar to yours here.

Thanks for sharing!

P.S. Kudos for buying local

Thank YOU for the comments.

All the gear is always in flux. I really like my stand, but over the course of the summer and fall, I have thought up a few improvements.

I will be changing the thermometer in the mash tun to a digital readout. I do tend to hit the mash temps just fine, but it is reassuring to just be able to glance at a readout and know for certain. The old analog thermometer I have been using is out of calibration.

I hope to eventually change out the brass quick disconnects to stainless steel cam-lock fittings. We'll see how cash flow is this winter.

Cheers,

Wayne

Wayne, your setup is great! I'm very slowly trying to gather diffferent odds and ends for a system. I just bought a shirron chiller (1st year teacher and can't find time to build), and I was worrying about the break material getting into the chiller and into the fermenter. Is there any other way besides using a whirlpool to keep it out? and I do like the whirlpool idea... my next purchase is a pump so I'll probably do that. Can you possibly give me some tips on how you do your whirlpool setup? And I like your panel for disconnects. Could you post a close up pic of that? Thanks!

Thanks for the comments.

I always whirlpool with a pump. That was one of my main design features. My previous system had one and I am used to that concept from my days of pro-brewing. I simply connect a hose from the outlet of the kettle to the inlet of the pump. The outlet of the pump goes to the inlet of the whirlpool.

As soon as the boil is over, I start the whirlpool. I let it go for 10 minutes and shut it off. I allow the wort to settle for 5 minutes and then start pumping it through the CFC into the fermenter.

You will always pass on some break material and hop mass. There are very few ways of getting around it. Having an inverted domed bottom in the brewkettle and whirlpooling certainly helps keeps most of the solids in the kettle.

I just finished re-reading "The Practical Brewer" 1st edition published in 1946 by the Master Brewers' Association of America. This shows most of what was used by large breweries at the time. Whirlpooling in the kettle was not used until the late 50's. It the 40's wort was run through a "hop jack" (similar to what we now call a hop back) for removal of hops and some trub. It was then pumped into "cool ships: which were long, shallow vessels to allow the trub to settle out before the wort was then pumped into the fermenters through heat exchangers.

Using a pump to whirlpool is the easiest and fastest way I know of to seperate the solids from your wort, if you do not care to use some mechanical filtering system such as a strainer. They do have a tendency to clog on occasion.

What do you wish to see about the front panel? It is just a sheet of stainless steel with some holes drilled in it. I mounted the disconnects in places where the pumps were located. I will be happy to take some more pictures, but please let me know what you would like me to highlight.

Thanks that would be tons of help! I am particularly horrible with the lingo of pipe and fittings, so pictures are my friend. I just wanted to see exactly how you had the connectors fastened to the panel, and I also wanted to see the exact fitting you used for the disconnects. I like the 90 bend you have right on the disconnect.

As for the whirlpooling, I guess you lose some wort in the bottom of the kettle since you can't extend you drainage tube right down into the center of the dome? My original plan was to extend the tube to there, use a false bottom to catch the large trub, and then some sort of a large sheet of fine stainless mesh to filter the fine hop particles. But I figured it may clog since I use pellets, and the stainless is expensive. So I guess you just have your tube on the edge?

I also know breweries have their tube tangent to the kettle wall. Can you explain the insice of your kettle to me? Looked like you have a large drainage tube on the edge, and then another 90 bend tube that is positioned sideways. That's the interesting part. Thanks!

I just wanted to see exactly how you had the connectors fastened to the panel, and I also wanted to see the exact fitting you used for the disconnects. I like the 90 bend you have right on the disconnect.

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The 90 degree quick disconnects used on the hoses are from McMaster-Carr, part number 6739K68.



They have a hose barb on one end, so they will fit right into any 1/2" ID hose. I use the high temp silicone hose.

The male QD is part number 6739K59



The male with the pipe threads is held in place with a 1/2" nut normally used in electrical work from the back of the panel.



From there I use a female threaded coupler into which I screw a male thread to hose barb adapter.

As for the whirlpooling, I guess you lose some wort in the bottom of the kettle since you can't extend you drainage tube right down into the center of the dome? My original plan was to extend the tube to there, use a false bottom to catch the large trub, and then some sort of a large sheet of fine stainless mesh to filter the fine hop particles. But I figured it may clog since I use pellets, and the stainless is expensive. So I guess you just have your tube on the edge?

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There will always be losses when you brew. Plan for them. I usually leave 0.625 gallons behind in my kettle. That is including hot break, hops and other trub. No problem. I take all this into account when I do my brewing calculations. Too many people try to squeeze every last ounce of liquid out of the kettle. I plan for 5 gallons into each keg. I back calculate how much I need at each stage to achieve this. I start my boil with 15 gallons in my kettle. After a 90 min. boil, I will end up with 11.5 gallons split between two fermenters, leaving the hops and trub behind.

I also know breweries have their tube tangent to the kettle wall. Can you explain the insice of your kettle to me? Looked like you have a large drainage tube on the edge, and then another 90 bend tube that is positioned sideways. That's the interesting part.

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I wish I could have tangential ports for my whirlpool. I do not have the skills to build them myself, so a 90 degree fitting was the closest I could come. I do draw off from the side of the kettle. I have an elbow with a close nipple threaded into it so I leave behind most of the trub.

What are tangential ports and what makes them so much better?

A tangential inlet creates less turbulence in the liquid flow.

This illustration is from Stout Tanks http://conical-fermenter.com/products/special-orders/

They offer a custom built brew kettle that has an inverted dome bottom with a tangential inlet. I am currently trying to see if they would be willing to customize one of these for my purposes with a thermowell and a sight glass.

For my uses, I am finding that a 15.5 gallon keg is a bit too small for me to brew a full 10 gallons into my kegs. The 19.8 gallon kettle they offer is very attractive to me.

I agree with the keggle size. I was lucky enough to trade some welding for a 25 gallon kettle that is 3/16" stainless. Heavy as heck, but I do 12.5 gallon batches and love the extra space. So I take it less turbulance = less Hot side aeration?

I was wondering how you adjust the drainage tube. You have to be able to because of the different amounts of trub you leave behind w/ different styles. What if you brew a huge ipa that uses a lot of hops?

Wayne1 said:

The silicone hoses are still under consideration. They are MUCH better then the PVC hoses. They are very flexible and will work with all temps of liquid.

They do balloon out with higher pressure. If I open up my cold water line a bit too much they expand out like a water balloon. That does not happen with the pumps. I may have to install a pressure limiter on the water line.

The March pumps have no trouble pumping from one side of the frame to the other and then up to top of the MLT. I do have to restrict the flow at the MLT.

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I've scared the sh&$ out of myself more than once after turning a wrong valve, opening the water-in and blowing up the silicone hose. That loud pop followed by water shooting all over my pumps, control box, etc.... really sux to hear. I've moved to a copper hard line for my water-in to HLT and haven't heard it since:rockin:

rtockst said:

I was wondering how you adjust the drainage tube. You have to be able to because of the different amounts of trub you leave behind w/ different styles. What if you brew a huge ipa that uses a lot of hops?

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The drainage tube is not adjustable. You take into consideration the amount of trub you might get and stop pumping when the trub reaches the outlet. If I use a large quantity of hops, I just increase the recipe by 0.25 to 0.5 gallons so I can still fit 5.25 to 5.5 gallons in the fermenter. The trub will still be left behind in the kettle.

I've scared the sh&$ out of myself more than once after turning a wrong valve, opening the water-in and blowing up the silicone hose. That loud pop followed by water shooting all over my pumps, control box, etc.... really sux to hear. I've moved to a copper hard line for my water-in to HLT and haven't heard it since

Click to expand...

I have learned to be very careful with the silicone hoses. I have never popped one. The ability to swap connections about is one of the most important things to me about this brew frame. That will never change.

I have made one small change. I reversed the street elbow on the whirlpool inlet.



As you can see, before I had a male, close nipple with a female connection going to the street elbow. At the suggestion of Wayne from Bargain Fittings, I removed the double female and turned the street elbow around to thread that directly to the close nipple.

The result was less turbulence and a much tighter trub pile. Wayne is building me a stainless tube with a threaded fitting on it that will bend around the keggle wall to come closer the the ideal of a tangential inlet.

I should have this installed in a couple of weeks. I will start a thread about it and show pictures. The tighter trub pile will also allow me to brew beers with larger amounts of hops without worrying about transferring the trub to the fermenter.

Thanks for all the interest in my rig and all the questions. It makes me very happy to think that maybe someone might use some of what I have made here in their rig.

sweet ride there

Right on - great job Wayne!

After seeing these pics months ago, I did the same thing. I haven't been as happy with the whirlpool flow as I originally thought. Maybe this new part will help and I can do the same thing...very interested to see how it comes out.

Don't get me wrong, it circulates the wort, but not like my yeast stir plate

Thanks again for the comments.

I need to add some conditioning vessels to my gear. I currently have 5) 6.5 gallon Mini-Brew conicals and a 6.5 gallon glass carboy. They are all full.

I have a friend who wants me to brew a special beer for the upcoming Frozen Dead Guy Days in Nederland. http://www.nederlandchamber.org/events_fdgd-home.html

He and his neighbors are entering into the coffin race. I NEED to make a brew for this event. I am searching Craigslist to find some conditioning vessels. I think I have at least one found.

Anyway, after I secure the additional tankage to increase production to keep the pipeline filled, I will be changing all the disconnects over to stainless camlocks.

I have also been discussing an oxygenation system with Wayne of Bargain Fittings. Hopefully, all this will come together in the next month.

Brewme said:

After seeing these pics months ago, I did the same thing. I haven't been as happy with the whirlpool flow as I originally thought. Maybe this new part will help and I can do the same thing...very interested to see how it comes out.

Don't get me wrong, it circulates the wort, but not like my yeast stir plate

Click to expand...

If you built your inlet like I did with the double female coupler and the street elbow, remove the coupler and turn the street elbow around. You will get a much better whirlpool and tighter trub cone.

Wayne (BargainFittings) has built a similar item for himself. He is piping from the top of his kettle.





The item he is making for me will come off a standard elbow and bend around the inside of the keggle.

I will post some pictures of the aftermath of the Frozen Dead Guy Ale, if I can get some fermenters freed up. I am planning about 11 oz of hops in the kettle for 10 gallons. That should create a good sized trub pile.

Wayne1 said:

Thanks again for the comments.

I need to add some conditioning vessels to my gear. I currently have 5) 6.5 gallon Mini-Brew conicals and a 6.5 gallon glass carboy. They are all full.

I have a friend who wants me to brew a special beer for the upcoming Frozen Dead Guy Days in Nederland. http://www.nederlandchamber.org/events_fdgd-home.html

He and his neighbors are entering into the coffin race. I NEED to make a brew for this event. I am searching Craigslist to find some conditioning vessels. I think I have at least one found.

Anyway, after I secure the additional tankage to increase production to keep the pipeline filled, I will be changing all the disconnects over to stainless camlocks.

I have also been discussing an oxygenation system with Wayne of Bargain Fittings. Hopefully, all this will come together in the next month.

Click to expand...

Wayne:

I have a couple of empty 5 gallon carboys and one 6.5. I could loan one to you for the frozen dead guy ale.

jds said:

Wayne:

I have a couple of empty 5 gallon carboys and one 6.5. I could loan one to you for the frozen dead guy ale.

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Thanks Joe,

If the offer on the 6.5 is still good. I would like to take you up on that. I should be picking up a 6 gallon Better Bottle later today. That would let me transfer a batch from the conicals so I could brew this weekend.

Drop me a PM to let me know where we can get together to make the swap.

Thanks again,

Wayne

Wayne1 said:

Having to go into a store and actually buy Bud Light is what hurt.

He did request a six of homebrew, whenever it was ready. I do plan on brewing an American Wheat for the BMC types.

It is worth a making a lighter brew now and then to keep anyone who can weld stainless happy.

Click to expand...

my fabricator is going to weld up my rig for a case of Centennial Blonde (BierMuncher's recipe). He loves it and I like to keep some around for the BMC crowd.

I'm considering a similar system and was wondering if used a false bottom in the MLT or a Braid. I'd like to use a braid ring in my MLT. It works excellent for my current set-up (all gravity).

I use a Phil's Phalse Bottom that I have had for about 20 years.



It is 12" in diameter and fits my Gott perfectly. I use a fitting from BargainFittings.com that connects to the out tube on the Phalse Bottom and hold the Phalse Bottom in place.

If I was to do it over, I would use a stainless steel false bottom.


Midwest seems to have the best price

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/12-stainless-steel-false-bottom.html

I have never used a hose braid for lautering, so I can't really comment on them.

I have placed my order for the stainless camlocks. I do have to say I am impressed with the vendor. I forgot one item. E-mailed them about it. They E-mailed me right back. Added the item and everything was shipped today.

I am sure I will be having too much fun next week, changing out 17 male fittings and building new hoses.

Post aa pic of it when you are finished. Just something about stainless. :cross:

Here is the latest version of the brewframe.

I changed out all the brass, McMaster-Carr, quick disconnects for stainless steel Cam-locks.

I also spent about $60.00 to get engraved signs made for each of the connections and controls on the brewframe.

I am waiting for a package from BargainFittings which will contain the new whirlpool parts. He is also sending me some more silicone tubing.

One drawback to the cam-locks is they do not have 90 degree female fittings like the brass QDs. I could have spent more money to get all the parts to build up a 90, but it was easier to order more hose.

Wayne I realy like your rig. The stainless fittings look great. Name plates are a nice touch. Post a pic of your new whirlpool set-up when you have it finished and let us know how you like it.

Subscribed. I just received 3 10 gallon Blichmanns and a Therminator and want to figure out a whirlpool system for my BK.