Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

A couple things that might help...

1) Pappers lowered his recommended temp to 180 degrees in some more recent posts in this thread

2) The bottom of your pot could be considerably hotter than the water temp, especially if it has a thick bottom. Try to put something between the bottles and the bottom of the pot. Maybe a washcloth or some sort of wire rack on the bottom of the pot. Probably should remove the washcloth before re-heating the water.

Craig

Going to see if 24 hours is too long in the bottles for EC-1118 to Carbonate :S

Working with beer, I usually get "gushers" if the bottle is warm, which then carbonate perfectly when chilled. It appears this is NOT the case with Cider

so I tried the sweet cider this time. The bottles were very slow to carb. Several weeks, then they took off. Overcarbed overnight. Had to explosions last night, one in the water and one after. Never know if its just the two weak bottles. Gotta do 36 more bottles today. Afraid of filling the dishwasher with glass so back to the stovetop.

Just did twelve of these right now. Heads up for anyone, open bottles every day after 5 days and see how it works out. I opened today and they were gushing slightly. One has popped, underwater while grabbing it with tongs. Make sure you pastuerize before it gushes.

Has anyone tried this with a Sous Vide machine? They are finally getting to be affordable http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/seattlefoodgeek/sansaire-sous-vide-circulator-for-199

Not the stove top method, but I tried out the dishwasher method, worked great for me 2 times so far. I bought a meat thermometer with a long probe, filled a 22oz bottle with water, corked it, stabbed the thermometer thru the cork, normal wash only got the bottle up to about 128, but heated wash hit 148 for about an hour, which is twice the length required for pasteurization. Tested 6 bottles with no carbonation, 2 weeks later still no carbonation, have since done two 50ish bottle batches on the bottom rack. Had a test soda bottle to get the carbonation where I wanted, then dishwasher time. No leaks, not explosions, just tasty carbonated cider.

How firm were the test soda bottles that you used for the dishwasher method?

As a follow up to my last post #919, I used the same recipe and let the bottles carbonate for only 14 hours (last batch was 2 days to carb). Results are awesome. No broken bottles through an entire 5 gallon batch. And I must say, the bottles that survived my first batch came out like champagne. Thus the issue with bottle bombs as everyone else mentioned. Too much carbonation. Thanks for your process posting Pappers!

When using this process.. say I bring my water up to 170* with the bottles in the kettle.. keep it in there for, say, 15 minutes. Do you let the water cool back down before removing the bottles?

Probably more important.. when you want to start the 2nd batch..

a. Do you just put them in the hot water.. whatever it came down to between batches?
or
b. Do you let the water really cool off, put the bottles in and bring back up to temp for a period?

Guess the main concern is about bottle shock.

Well.. No answer.. guess I'm a bit impatient?

Here is what I found.. and it's important.

I put my first 5 liter flip tops into the kettle with warm water and heated to 170* for 15 minutes.. let it cool for a bit. During that time I started smelling the apple cider. But, it all worked. The two bombers I had in the batch had caps that swelled back to shape.. (they were indented) When I pulled the bottles and put them on a towel in the counter.. what did I see.. the liquid in the bottles had expanded to the very top of the bottle.. So much for filling the bottles the same as filling beer bottles The take away is.. Leave a LOT MORE headspace in the bottles.

I put the remaining 5 flip tops into the boiler which was down to 150 and turned on the heat.. I let it settle this tie at 155* for 20 minutes.. POP.. I haven't opened the kettle yet.. but I think one of the bottles split.. I'll find out in about 10 minutes.. BUT.. THEN… BAM.. the top blew off the top of the kettle.. blew hot cider around the stove area. Fortunately, there was a lid on the bucket. I'm sure the expansion is what caused these bottles to go.. as they are very heavy duty bottles.. not near as thin as a regular capable beer bottle.

Hope this saves someone from the same troubles. MORE HEADSPACE IN THE BOTTLES THAN NORMAL.

gingerman said:

How firm were the test soda bottles that you used for the dishwasher method?

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They were actually a thin water bottle type bottle. I waited until I could barely squeeze them. Took about 4 days? And the carbonation is very light. I think in the future I'll either use real soda bottles, or once the test bottle is hard to squeeze I'll move to opening a test bottle once a day.

HopSong said:

Well.. No answer.. guess I'm a bit impatient?

Here is what I found.. and it's important.

I put my first 5 liter flip tops into the kettle with warm water and heated to 170* for 15 minutes.. let it cool for a bit. During that time I started smelling the apple cider. But, it all worked. The two bombers I had in the batch had caps that swelled back to shape.. (they were indented) When I pulled the bottles and put them on a towel in the counter.. what did I see.. the liquid in the bottles had expanded to the very top of the bottle.. So much for filling the bottles the same as filling beer bottles The take away is.. Leave a LOT MORE headspace in the bottles.

I put the remaining 5 flip tops into the boiler which was down to 150 and turned on the heat.. I let it settle this tie at 155* for 20 minutes.. POP.. I haven't opened the kettle yet.. but I think one of the bottles split.. I'll find out in about 10 minutes.. BUT.. THEN… BAM.. the top blew off the top of the kettle.. blew hot cider around the stove area. Fortunately, there was a lid on the bucket. I'm sure the expansion is what caused these bottles to go.. as they are very heavy duty bottles.. not near as thin as a regular capable beer bottle.

Hope this saves someone from the same troubles. MORE HEADSPACE IN THE BOTTLES THAN NORMAL.

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How did you test for initial carbonation levels? Sounds like you may have allowed the bottles to overcarbonate.

I keep seeing one of the biggest notes in the front is that the pot was removed from the heat. Why is everybody complaining when it goes boom when they have the heat on during the pasteurization?

Well, skitter, in my case it would have made no difference. I had well over 1" of headspace in my bottles. I didn't bring up to 170* as the OP showed.. and it's a good thing or I'd have no bottles remaining. The issue is.. the liquid expands (duh) when it gets hot.. whether it is maintained with heat (using a spacer rack in the bottom) or removed from the heat.

I don't think this would have been a problem had I left more headspace in my large bottles. Had I only done 12 oz'ers.. I don't think it would have been a problem at all, using a normal beer headspace, to less liquid to expand. In my case, once the liquid reached the cap, be it a crimp cap or my flip top cap, there was no place for the liquid to go except out.

squegeeboo said:

How did you test for initial carbonation levels? Sounds like you may have allowed the bottles to overcarbonate.

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I have a bunch of brown PET bottles that I got from one of my original brewing kits. When that got really hard.. I did my pasteurization.. but, note my explanation about WHY they exploded. These bottles that broke were 1 liter bottles. That's a lot of liquid compared to a 12 oz bottle.. Much more liquid to expand.. It was the liquid that blew the bottles not the carbonation.. but the carbonation in the cider is what caused the bottles to do more than just pop.

squegeeboo said:

How did you test for initial carbonation levels? Sounds like you may have allowed the bottles to overcarbonate.

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I have a bunch of brown PET bottles that I got from one of my original brewing kits. When that got really hard.. I dod my pasteurization.. but, note my explanation about WHY they exploded. These bottles that broke were 1 liter bottles. That's a lot of liquid compared to a 12 oz bottle.. Much more liquid to expand.. It was the liquid that blew the bottles not the carbonation.. but the carbonation in the cider is what caused the bottles to do more than just pop. Pure physics. Next time I'll use the excess of 12 oz'er I have. That's a much better size for carbonated beverages.. as the 1 L bottles won't get consumed before the carbonation is zippo.

HopSong said:

Well, skitter, in my case it would have made no difference. I had well over 1" of headspace in my bottles. I didn't bring up to 170* as the OP showed.. and it's a good thing or I'd have no bottles remaining. The issue is.. the liquid expands (duh) when it gets hot.. whether it is maintained with heat (using a spacer rack in the bottom) or removed from the heat.

I don't think this would have been a problem had I left more headspace in my large bottles. Had I only done 12 oz'ers.. I don't think it would have been a problem at all, using a normal beer headspace, to less liquid to expand. In my case, once the liquid reached the cap, be it a crimp cap or my flip top cap, there was no place for the liquid to go except out.

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Gotcha, still havnt tried this myself, too worried about explosions

Just keep the pot covered while pasteurizing. Not only that, put a weight, maybe a teapot full of water or whatever, on the lid. If a carbonated bottle goes.. the expanding gas will blow the lid off along with glass and cider.. and bath water. You'll have no problems then. My future plan will be to start with hot tap water.. bring it up to 160*.. kill the flame and let it cool a bit.. remove the bottles after the liquid settles down.. start a new batch. I have the time.. I'm in no rush. Otherwise, I'd simply put the bottles in the 150* water and turn the flame on low to bring it to 160* for 15 minutes, etc. My point here is.. while it may work 99% of the time, I don't want to have an inherently weak bottle (one with thin spots) to blow up on me… not even that 1% chance. Rather have it happen in the secure pot. As mentioned above.. I don't think I'll have ANY problems with the 12 oz'ers.

Live and learn

My hedge against bottle explosions is a 1" cargo strap with a cam buckle cinched down tight.



This is the first batch I've pasteurized, it's a cran-apple cider that I'm guessing will need to age longer than I'm willing to devote fridge space.

I think you're just asking for trouble by heating the pot with the bottles inside. The bottom of that pot with stove on, will get way hotter than the water. If those bottles are touching the bottom of the pot, they'll get that direct heat as well. Better to heat the water to 180 degrees, take it off the heat, add bottles for desired length of time. Remove bottles, reheat water and repeat.

I figured I should post my pasteurization results. I bottled 11 gallons. I allowed them to lightly carbonate. I did a mixture of 12oz,22oz,750ml.
The 12 ounce bottles I did exactly like Pappers instructions said on the first page. The 22ounce bottles were a lot harder to nail down. I started them by soaking them in a water bath to bring the liquid in them to about 100 degrees. I then brought the water in my pot to 190 and put the bottles in. I set my timer for 10minutes. When the timer was at around 1min 30 seconds I had my first bottle break. I pulled the remaining bottles from the pot and checked my test bottle(capped bottle of water). The test bottle told me the temp had reached 165 in the bottles. I then lowered my kettle water to 180 and tried again this time I went for 7minutes. The temperature in the test bottle reached 143ish. I'm hoping that's hot enough. I had another break but I'm thinking it was a bad bottle because it broke while cooling down about 2 minutes after removing it from the pot. When I finished the 22oz I went to the Champaign bottles. I didn't preheat them in a water bath. I had six to do so I did three at a time with a test bottle in each batch. I heated the water to 190 and put them in for 15mins. The first batch of bottles took exactly 15 mins to get just over 140 degrees(143). The second batch took about 14minutes. I'm thinking the glass thickness might have something to do with temperature differences. I hope this helps people trying to do the larger bottles. I will admit after the first break I put on my heavy Carharts, a pullover, gloves, and started wearing my logging helmet . That scared me pretty good. It dented the bottom and top of the pot. I will report back if I have any problems with the pasteurization. Thanks Pappers for the Sticky.

deadfall said:

I then lowered my kettle water to 180 and tried again this time I went for 7minutes. The temperature in the test bottle reached 143ish. I'm hoping that's hot enough.

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Per this link
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pasteurization-methods-temperatures-d_1642.html

At 145 F you need 30 minutes to pasteurize. I'd be concerned for those bottles that you haven't pasteurized them, and they're still carbonating as we speak, like a monster in a horror movie, just waiting for the opportune time to blow.

squegeeboo said:

Per this link
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pasteurization-methods-temperatures-d_1642.html

At 145 F you need 30 minutes to pasteurize. I'd be concerned for those bottles that you haven't pasteurized them, and they're still carbonating as we speak, like a monster in a horror movie, just waiting for the opportune time to blow.

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So that is the time for the liquid itself, the actual time needed would be based on the thickness of the glass for your bottles and their size.

I use a spaghetti pot with the built in strainer. I turn off the heat and put the bottles in the strainer. The bottle bottoms never touch the bottom of the pot that could get up to 300 deg!

squegeeboo said:

Per this link
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pasteurization-methods-temperatures-d_1642.html

At 145 F you need 30 minutes to pasteurize. I'd be concerned for those bottles that you haven't pasteurized them, and they're still carbonating as we speak, like a monster in a horror movie, just waiting for the opportune time to blow.

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Maybe so. Pappers never said to get the bottles to 140 for 30mins. He said 10mins and remove to slowly cool. With his directions the liquid in the 12 ounce bottles is hitting around 150 and your removing to cool.

will this work with 1qt "used" liquor bottles? I froze my cider to get applejack and used the 750ml bottles. The jack is nice as is but thought I might try sweetening some to add a little sparkle.

JPNpro said:

will this work with 1qt "used" liquor bottles? I froze my cider to get applejack and used the 750ml bottles. The jack is nice as is but thought I might try sweetening some to add a little sparkle.

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If your apple jack is strong enough, I'd say 15%, 20% to be safe, it should have killed the yeast for you anyways. I would think you wouldn't need to pasteurize. Just maybe heat the sugar or whatever your adding to make sure it's sanitized.

MarkKF said:

I use a spaghetti pot with the built in strainer. I turn off the heat and put the bottles in the strainer. The bottle bottoms never touch the bottom of the pot that could get up to 300 deg!

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That is exactly what I used until I switched to using a cooler. I think half of the bombs that happen in this thread are because people are letting the bottles touch the bottom of their pot.

So far mine have been fine (I'm the guy who posted the photo with the red strap on the pot lid) but only time will tell if the pasteurization was effective. I used a collapsible colander to keep my bottles off the bottom and didn't have the burner running. The water in my uncapped test bottle was up to 150 when I took it out after 10 minutes, I'd have had more of my curiosity satisfied if I'd had a remote reading thermometer in the kitchen.

I'm no authority.. but, here is what I've been seeing.. and mentioning in my prior posts. Expansion of the liquid.. not the gasses per se. For those of you who are bottling in bombers and 750's..(not 12 oz) try this.. if they don't explode first. Bottle as normal, with about 1 1/2" of head space. Pasteurize as in this thread. Once the time and temp is reached.. pull one out and look at the liquid level. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the liquid has reached the cap. At this point it is like water being sealed inside of a sealable steel ball. That sealed ball placed in a freezing environment. The ball will crack due to the pressure of the expanding water as it freezes. Hard to believe.. but, as I remember from a physics class many years ago.. That's what happens to freezing pipes. Well the same thing happens to heated water.. it expands. As it expands it has to go someplace and fills that gap at the top of the bottle. Once the room has been taken by the expanding liquid.. guess what happens.

My bottles were not touching the bottom of the pot.. and they were heavy walled. It the explosion didn't happen until about 10 minutes into the soak. So, won't cost you to do a check at the end of the soak. I'm sure you will see a significant cider level change even in 12 oz'ers.. but likely not enough to reach the cap as there is not that much liquid to expand vs the large bottles..

Nuff said. I'll get off my "high horse" and crawl back into my hole. I think this will help prevent bombs. It's all about physics of liquids.. not gasses in this case… IMO

This is a great method. Would I be able to do this with wine or mead? Would it keep the wine from spoiling or would I still have to add K metabisulphite if I plan on aging for a long time?

I'm sure you could.. but, IME, wine would suffer from the temps. It's very delicate.. Even the bold reds.

Are meads delicate on temps? Just grape wines are delicate on temps, or all wines. I have a watermelon wine that I want to back sweeten, but I don't want to use potassium sorbate because I read that when it breaks down it leaves off flavors of celery or pineapple in our wine. What would be the best way to stabilize it so I could back sweeten without using k sorbate? Cold crashing it?

I usually use BIAG method for my beer, so I used the same set up to Pasteurize some hard lemonade I recently made. It was so easy that I'm ashamed. I could do 12 bottles at a time, so it took about an hour & an half to do 2 1/2 cases. Thank you for this post!

Rockindaddy said:

I could do 12 bottles at a time, so it took about an hour & an half to do 2 1/2 cases. Thank you for this post!

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Love the set-up. Where did you get the pot & how much?

MarkKF said:

Love the set-up. Where did you get the pot & how much?

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I got it from Amazon although it looks like the price went way up since I got it. I think I paid around $80.00 for this same set up:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004070QDA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


Sure made it easy though. Just set the bottles in the basket, bring the water up to temp and lift the basket and set it in the water, put the lid on and wait 10 minutes. Lift the basket out and 12 bottles are done!

Rockindaddy said:

I usually use BIAG method for my beer, so I used the same set up to Pasteurize some hard lemonade I recently made. It was so easy that I'm ashamed. I could do 12 bottles at a time, so it took about an hour & an half to do 2 1/2 cases. Thank you for this post!

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Here is a pic of my setup. Very similar. I also use this to steam crabs, steam oysters, boil stuffed hams and other stuff. Comes in handy. I did 24 22oz bottles, 10 12 oz bottles and 2 32oz swing tops last night of a honey peach cider.

kstone803 said:

Here is a pic of my setup. Very similar. I also use this to steam crabs, steam oysters, boil stuffed hams and other stuff. Comes in handy. I did 24 22oz bottles, 10 12 oz bottles and 2 32oz swing tops last night of a honey peach cider.

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Nice what size 32 qu?

Tempted to get brew pot with thermometer & valve

Remember, there is no need to submerge the bottles. Steam works just as well. I steam pasteurized 32oz cider bottles on a rack in a converted keg. Raise the chamber temp to 165 degrees and hold for 8 minutes. I'm sure 12oz bottles would be much faster.

I thought I would give this process a shot with some beer, as I've had some issues with over-carbonation months after bottling ( I keg and force carb as part of my bottling process). Anyway, I was sitting here with my first 6 bottles in the hot water, it's good thing I had the cover on the pot, as at least one bottle popped. I had heated water to 190 removed from the heat and the bottles were in for about 6 minutes. I don't know if the bottle broke or if the cap popped off. I think I'm going to let the whole pot cool of for awhile before I try to retrieve the remaining bottles.

OK, as I was typing this a second bottle went and popped, this one a bit more violent as it blew the lid right off the pot. I think I'm going to put this project on hold and maybe explore filtering options.

It sounds like plenty of others have been successful with this, any ideas what I'm doing wrong?