Just finished my first beer...need a bit of help with the second

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Intrevix

Intrevix

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Well, I just siphoned my first batch from primary to secondary and hopefully (with a little help from the beer Gods) it'll be OK.

For my second beer, I really wanted to do something that was as fool proof (taste-wise) as possible. So, I headed over to Northern Brewer and found their Cream Ale, however, they don't ship to Canada.

I looked up the ingredients that go into it and called my local Homebrew Shop. They had never heard of a malt/sugar/grain called "Pilsen".

Any suggestions on what to substitute for it? All I'm really looking for is a beer that's neutral enough to be a crowd pleaser and it seamed like the Cream Ale was very well reviewed.

Thanks!
 
Pilsen is pilsener malt. If your LHBS doesn't have it, substitute 2-row or pale malt, the lightest (color) you can find.

If you are looking for extract (LME or DME), I can't help... just look for something very light.

BTW, malt is grain. It's grain that has been malted, which just means it's been wetted until close to germination, then dried again. Developes enzymes needed for mashing.

Good luck with #2.

[edit... just followed your link... ]

the recipe calls for pilsen syrup, which is LME. Look for the lightest possible LME (liquid malt extract). there should be a pilsener extract, but I'm not sure. I guarantee an extract brewer will chime in here soon with the answers...
 
Briesse makes a pilsen light LME. LD Carlson has pilsen DME. Lacking those,LD Carlson & Munton's both have plain extra light DME as well. That should get you started. My wife's 1st brew used the Breisse pilsen light LME & Carlson's plain pilsen DME. Gave a light golden orange color wuth the zest/spices she used. Lacking that,it should be a light yellow,maybe a touch of gold.
 
If you're looking for an extract kit, give thought to Brew House. For broad appeal try the Pilsner, Blond, Wheat, IPA or Pale. I have brewed a number of their kits and find hem very flavourful.

Enjoy!

B
 
I like cream ales, but believe it or not they are trickier to brew than you'd think. You really have no place for any off-flavors to hide, since it's clean and clear and crisp. It's like an ale version of LaBatt's.

That's fine if you want to do it, but you may consider making some beer just as good but a bit more forgiving. Amber ales tend to be a bit more flavorful, and some esters wouldn't be as noticeable. Or a dark beer, like an English brown, porter, stout, etc. If you want to make a lighter colored beer, an American wheat or a German hefeweizen is very simple.
 
I have three of NB's jugs of Pilsen LME that I have kept frozen for maybe 18 months that I will probably never use. I guess I could mail them to you. If you're interested I'll box them up and take them down to Canada Post for a shipping estimate.

Edit: just looked at the jugs and they are 3.15 lbs each. So you need 2 for your recipe. However if you have trouble getting them where you are you might have a use for the third one sometime.
 
Yooper said:
Amber ales tend to be a bit more flavorful, and some esters wouldn't be as noticeable. Or a dark beer, like an English brown, porter, stout, etc. If you want to make a lighter colored beer, an American wheat or a German hefeweizen is very simple.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I'm looking for- a forgivable ale. I'm fairly sure the recipe I just brewed was something that my local shop made up (and may not have gotten a lot of feedback on yet).
Do you, by chance, have a link to a few ales that are usually a crowd pleaser?

osagedr said:
I have three of NB's jugs of Pilsen LME that I have kept frozen for maybe 18 months that I will probably never use. I guess I could mail them to you. If you're interested I'll box them up and take them down to Canada Post for a shipping estimate.
Click to expand...

I'll take all 3, just let me know how much you'd like + shipping and I can Paypal it to you. Just out of curiosity, how long do they keep when they've been frozen?

Thanks!
 
Intrevix said:
I'll take all 3, just let me know how much you'd like + shipping and I can Paypal it to you. Just out of curiosity, how long do they keep when they've been frozen?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I actually don't know how long they would keep frozen but I can think of no reason why they would spoil under those storage conditions. I can open one and smell/taste it before shipping if you like, but I don't want to do that unless you instruct me to. I'll PM you later today with shipping costs.
 
Intrevix said:
That's exactly what I'm looking for- a forgivable ale. I'm fairly sure the recipe I just brewed was something that my local shop made up (and may not have gotten a lot of feedback on yet).
Do you, by chance, have a link to a few ales that are usually a crowd pleaser?
Click to expand...

Well, Northern Brewer has some I'm sure, as well as austinhomebrew.com. I think they ship to Canada, but I'm not certain.

I think something like a Fat Tire clone would be good, as most people tend to like that. NB and AHS have that.

It's darker colored, so that might put people off, but a beer like Newcastle is easy to make and it's very drinkable. I have a link to a super easy English Brown recipe in my recipe pull-down under my avatar. It was one of my first recipes as a beginner, and it was really good! Another one of my recipes that is a huge crowd pleaser is the "Dead Guy" clone. It's a malty beer, with little to no hops flavor, so people who aren't exposed to tons of craft beer will favor it over a hoppy beer usually. It's a bit richer than many macro-brews, though, and it might be a bit heavier for some people.
 
Pale ales are easy & quick. And I've made a few variations already,from straw gold/amber to dark amber. OG's of 1.044-1.050 that have plenty of flavor,4.8%-5.33% as well. I'm finding you don't have to have a big,heavy 14% brew to have a good ale period. The kind where you can drink a few of & enjoy.
Just had to hone in a good process. I'll list a couple if you want?...
 
I also did a first batch yesterday and had similar questions, thanks for the info guys. My concern now is that after a little over 12 hours I've seen no bubbling in the airlock. I used liquid California ale yeast instead of the Nottingham included with the kit. I shook the hell out of it before cracking and pitching and a little foamed out and onto my hands before falling into the primary. My hands were clean but I'm still concerned about the yeast. Any thoughts?
 
PCBrewski said:
I also did a first batch yesterday and had similar questions, thanks for the info guys. My concern now is that after a little over 12 hours I've seen no bubbling in the airlock. I used liquid California ale yeast instead of the Nottingham included with the kit. I shook the hell out of it before cracking and pitching and a little foamed out and onto my hands before falling into the primary. My hands were clean but I'm still concerned about the yeast. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

It might take up to 72 hours to see signs of fermentation with liquid yeast. Don't worry about! Just keep it at 70 degrees (or ideally, a bit below) and wait it out.
 
Thanks, it's a brewers best APA kit which I followed to the T. Aside from not getting an OG reading. Will I still be able to move it to a secondary within 5-7 days, with changing the yeast?
 
PCBrewski said:
Thanks, it's a brewers best APA kit which I followed to the T. Aside from not getting an OG reading. Will I still be able to move it to a secondary within 5-7 days, with changing the yeast?
Click to expand...

Brewers Best encourages racking to secondary, but a lot of experienced brewers are advocating leaving it in primary for 3 - 4 weeks. If you do decide to rack, wait a little longer than 5 - 7 days, and take hydrometer readings to see when fermentation is complete.:mug:
 
PIGMAN said:
Brewers Best encourages racking to secondary, but a lot of experienced brewers are advocating leaving it in primary for 3 - 4 weeks. If you do decide to rack, wait a little longer than 5 - 7 days, and take hydrometer readings to see when fermentation is complete.:mug:
Click to expand...

So if the fermentation is complete I can leave it for another couple of weeks and then rack to a secondary or just go ahead and bottle?
 
PCBrewski said:
So if the fermentation is complete I can leave it for another couple of weeks and then rack to a secondary or just go ahead and bottle?
Click to expand...

Personally, I would leave it for a total of four weeks in primary, and allow the yeast to clean up after itself, then I would bottle. Why risk infection/oxidation by racking to secondary? Prior to bottling take at least two hydrometer readings to make sure that the FG stays the same, although by that time fermentation should be complete.:mug:
 
Thanks for the feedback, my next concern then would be trub. I used a 6 gallon ale pail bottling bucket as my primary and planned on the secondary for that reason.
 
PCBrewski said:
Thanks for the feedback, my next concern then would be trub. I used a 6 gallon ale pail bottling bucket as my primary and planned on the secondary for that reason.
Click to expand...

In four weeks, everything will settle into a cake at the bottom. Don't worry about off-flavors from the cake, as a matter of fact, current wisdom seems to be that after fermentation, the yeast continues to work and clean up after itself. I would utilize the time it would have taken you to rack, and brew another batch. It's funny, but when I received my homebrew kit last Christmas, it included a 5 gallon glass carboy, which is still in the box. I had assumed I would rack to secondary, but after reading all the posts from experienced brewers on this site, such as Revvy, I decided to forego secondaries, and so far, so good. By the way, did you use the bottling bucket with the spigot to ferment, or just a regular plastic fermenter without a spigot?:mug:
 
I don't have another bottling bucket w spigot but do have another 6.5 gallon bucket. I have one of those bottle filling siphoning kits not an actual autosiphon. That's why I wanted to rack into the Carboy then clean my bucket for bottling.
 
PCBrewski said:
I don't have another bottling bucket w spigot but do have another 6.5 gallon bucket. I have one of those bottle filling siphoning kits not an actual autosiphon. That's why I wanted to rack into the Carboy then clean my bucket for bottling.
Click to expand...

Here's what I would do. Continue to leave it in the bottling bucket for the four weeks, so that you don't lose the benefit of the yeast cleaning up the beer. Then when it's time to bottle, you are going to have to rack twice, once into the six gallon fermenter, and then back into the bottling bucket after you clean and sanitize the hell out of it, and of course add the priming sugar. I would get an autosiphon and the proper tubing so that your life is easier on bottling day. When you clean and sanitize the bottling bucket, remove the spigot, and sanitize it inside and out,(you probably knew that already). Another useful tool if you don't already have one is a bottling wand. In the future, you should not ferment in the bottling bucket, but I wouldn't worry about this batch, I'm sure it's fine. What style of beer is it?:mug:
 
I don't leave beer in the fermenter for four weeks- I know some have but that's a long time. I usually go two-three weeks, or until the beer as been finished for a week or so, and it's clear. No reason to keep the beer in the fermenter for 4 weeks, in my opinion. A well made beer can be bottled in 2 weeks, three at the outside.

I think a long primary is not harmful (usually), but I can see no benefit to going as long as four weeks. Two weeks? Certainly. But I don't see any reason to go longer if the beer has been at FG for at least a few days and has cleared.
 
since I've been more thorough in mixing wort & top off water,combined with small starters,it's getting to where I can chop off the 4th week. This dark ale has been in primary 11 days,& with the 2 things mentioned,(& better temps),the brew went from 1.050 down to 1.011. Needs to settle more,but if it's still 1.011 Wednesday,& a lil clearer,into secondary it goes with the bourbon soaked oak.
Just tightening up processes seems to help in regard to time needed for completion.
 
unionrdr said:
since I've been more thorough in mixing wort & top off water,combined with small starters,it's getting to where I can chop off the 4th week. This dark ale has been in primary 11 days,& with the 2 things mentioned,(& better temps),the brew went from 1.050 down to 1.011. Needs to settle more,but if it's still 1.011 Wednesday,& a lil clearer,into secondary it goes with the bourbon soaked oak.
Just tightening up processes seems to help in regard to time needed for completion.
Click to expand...

So you're averaging 3 weeks now instead of 4? I'd love to speed up the process. Actually, my first beer, an IPA was in primary 3 weeks and it came out great, but since then, after reading a lot of the posts on this forum, I've been going 4. 2 seems short, but Yooper is a lot more experienced than me.:mug:
 
PIGMAN said:
So you're averaging 3 weeks now instead of 4? I'd love to speed up the process. Actually, my first beer, an IPA was in primary 3 weeks and it came out great, but since then, after reading a lot of the posts on this forum, I've been going 4. 2 seems short, but Yooper is a lot more experienced than me.:mug:
Click to expand...

Me? I don't think I've ever left a beer in the primary more than 3 weeks, unless I've had a family emergency or something.

Usually two weeks, including dryhopping, is for me.

A well made beer doesn't need weeks and weeks of aging to smooth out, although I have an oatmeal stout that tastes best after 5 weeks or so. No harm will usually come to a beer left in the primary for a long time, but I see no benefit after two weeks or so.
 
I really wish I had found this forum before I visited my homebrew store.
They gave me some instructions and a timeline for my beer which had me racking it to secondary in 3 days and bottling at 7 days and nothing about a hydrometer reading.

So, I guess my updated question is: I waited 7 days before racking to secondary and never took a hydrometer reading. Is there a chance I could've ruined the beer?

Thanks for all the replies.
 
Yooper said:
Me? I don't think I've ever left a beer in the primary more than 3 weeks, unless I've had a family emergency or something.

Usually two weeks, including dryhopping, is for me.

A well made beer doesn't need weeks and weeks of agin+g to smooth out, although I have an oatmeal stout that tastes best after 5 weeks or so. No harm will usually come to a beer left in the primary for a long time, but I see no benefit after two weeks or so.
Click to expand...

+1 on this... I've really been noticing, especially with IPAs and beers where the hops are the main feature, that longer fermentations are not better. In fact I just did an IPA that I used the hopbursting technique on, it had a pound of hops in a five gallon batch. I let it go 4 weeks in primary, and it lost a MASSIVE amount of hop aroma compared to the sample I drank at 2 weeks. In fact I actually did move it to a secondary for another week to dry hop it, which I hadn't been planning to do. IPAs get 2 weeks from now on as long as they're done fermenting.
 
Intrevix said:
I really wish I had found this forum before I visited my homebrew store.
They gave me some instructions and a timeline for my beer which had me racking it to secondary in 3 days and bottling at 7 days and nothing about a hydrometer reading.

So, I guess my updated question is: I waited 7 days before racking to secondary and never took a hydrometer reading. Is there a chance I could've ruined the beer?

Thanks for all the replies.
Click to expand...

Nope, not a chance. 1st, althouth a hydrometer reading is very useful, it won't change the taste of your beer.

Using a secondary has gone the way of the dodo. While a secondary is nearly useless (might marginally improve clarity), it is also completely harmless if you don't sneeze while transferring.
 
passedpawn said:
Nope, not a chance. 1st, althouth a hydrometer reading is very useful, it won't change the taste of your beer.

Using a secondary has gone the way of the dodo. While a secondary is nearly useless (might marginally improve clarity), it is also completely harmless if you don't sneeze while transferring.
Click to expand...

If your going to dry hop AND you want to save your yeast, that is a time when secondary is definitely useful. But that's it.
 
Intrevix said:
I really wish I had found this forum before I visited my homebrew store.
They gave me some instructions and a timeline for my beer which had me racking it to secondary in 3 days and bottling at 7 days and nothing about a hydrometer reading.

So, I guess my updated question is: I waited 7 days before racking to secondary and never took a hydrometer reading. Is there a chance I could've ruined the beer?

Thanks for all the replies.
Click to expand...

The kit instructions and some LHBS people want you to speed up the process, so that they can sell you more kits and equipment. This forum will teach you more than most other sources, although you will find times when 2 or more very experienced brewers will differ on the same subject. I guess that's the time when you have to experiment and find out what works for you. As far as the hydrometer reading, just make sure the FG is consistent for 2 or 3 readings over 3 days or so before bottling. If you followed the kit instructions, and topped off the water to the specified volume, chances are that your OG was in the range specified by the kit.:tank:
 
Yooper said:
I don't leave beer in the fermenter for four weeks- I know some have but that's a long time. I usually go two-three weeks, or until the beer as been finished for a week or so, and it's clear. No reason to keep the beer in the fermenter for 4 weeks, in my opinion. A well made beer can be bottled in 2 weeks, three at the outside.

I think a long primary is not harmful (usually), but I can see no benefit to going as long as four weeks. Two weeks? Certainly. But I don't see any reason to go longer if the beer has been at FG for at least a few days and has cleared.
Click to expand...

I had read some posts, (Revvy's among them), that advocate three to four weeks in primary in order to allow the yeast to "clean up after itself". Do you think that's accomplished in two weeks? I would love to speed up my process by two weeks!:)
 
PIGMAN said:
I had read some posts, (Revvy's among them), that advocate three to four weeks in primary in order to allow the yeast to "clean up after itself". Do you think that's accomplished in two weeks? I would love to speed up my process by two weeks!:)
Click to expand...

Absolutely. While four weeks will not harm the beer (except for maybe a lager), I see no benefit to going longer than needed. But let me clarify what I mean by "needed". Old school tells us to keep the beer in the primary for 3-5 days and rack immediately after fermentation slows.

I agree that leaving the beer in the fermenter longer than those instructions is a good thing! As fermentation slows, the yeast start to go back and digest other things besides fermentable sugars, like their own waste products! Then the yeast will begin to fall out, leaving a clearer beer. I think it's important to leave the beer in the fermenter during this time. Active fermentation may take 3-5 days, then the clean up process begins.

Once the beer is at FG for a week, the processes of the yeast digesting diacetyl, etc, are pretty much over. Once the beer is clear, I see no benefit to keeping the beer in the fermenter longer.

If enough yeast is pitched to begin with (this is key!) and the fermenter is kept at the correct temperature, then there should be minimal off-flavors and the beer will require less conditioning time.

A well made beer shouldn't need a month to be drinkable, although no harm will come to it.

I have a stout that is packaged at two weeks, but it does take a total of about 5 weeks from brewday for the flavors to meld. Roasty flavors, spices, etc will take longer to really come together. But the beer doesn't have to be in the fermenter to condition.

For the vast majority of my beers, they are in the fermenter for about 2 weeks total.
 
PIGMAN said:
I had read some posts, (Revvy's among them), that advocate three to four weeks in primary in order to allow the yeast to "clean up after itself". Do you think that's accomplished in two weeks? I would love to speed up my process by two weeks!:)
Click to expand...

Im really not 100% sold on the whole "yeast cleans up after itself" theory... I mean I know there are off flavor producing compounds such as diacetyl that can be processed by the yeast, but as far as a miracle cure for a bad beer, it wont help. I think if the beer was well made, it got enough yeast, and fermentation temps were favorable its not going to do too much in the fermentor that it can't do in the keg or bottle IMHO
 
Yooper said:
Absolutely. While four weeks will not harm the beer (except for maybe a lager), I see no benefit to going longer than needed. But let me clarify what I mean by "needed". Old school tells us to keep the beer in the primary for 3-5 days and rack immediately after fermentation slows.

I agree that leaving the beer in the fermenter longer than those instructions is a good thing! As fermentation slows, the yeast start to go back and digest other things besides fermentable sugars, like their own waste products! Then the yeast will begin to fall out, leaving a clearer beer. I think it's important to leave the beer in the fermenter during this time. Active fermentation may take 3-5 days, then the clean up process begins.

Once the beer is at FG for a week, the processes of the yeast digesting diacetyl, etc, are pretty much over. Once the beer is clear, I see no benefit to keeping the beer in the fermenter longer.

If enough yeast is pitched to begin with (this is key!) and the fermenter is kept at the correct temperature, then there should be minimal off-flavors and the beer will require less conditioning time.

A well made beer shouldn't need a month to be drinkable, although no harm will come to it.

I have a stout that is packaged at two weeks, but it does take a total of about 5 weeks from brewday for the flavors to meld. Roasty flavors, spices, etc will take longer to really come together. But the beer doesn't have to be in the fermenter to condition.

For the vast majority of my beers, they are in the fermenter for about 2 weeks total.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice.:)
 
The yeast will indeed clean up their by-products. I got about every by-product known on my 1st. But 2.5 weeks,& 3 weeks in the bottle & all was right with the world. Most can be cleaned up in primary. But others have to age out,to whatever degree. The better you become at giving the yeast exactly what it wants,the less clean up time is needed. That's it in a nutshell. Just because it's microscopic & you can't see it happening,doesn't mean it isn't.
 
unionrdr said:
The yeast will indeed clean up their by-products. I got about every by-product known on my 1st. But 2.5 weeks,& 3 weeks in the bottle & all was right with the world. Most can be cleaned up in primary. But others have to age out,to whatever degree. The better you become at giving the yeast exactly what it wants,the less clean up time is needed. That's it in a nutshell. Just because it's microscopic & you can't see it happening,doesn't mean it isn't.
Click to expand...

You know, the more posts I read on this thread advocating just two weeks in primary, the more I realize that I have three batches to bottle this weekend instead of one. At what temp are you conditioning your bottles? Mine have been in the basement around 72F, but it's starting to heat up a little here.:fro:
 
I bottle condition at 70F,but it's getting warmer some days. it gets up to maybe 74F. But it's past the point where I need to worry about temps. They were bulk primed & conditioned in 11 days. Seeing as how it's in the bottles,with o2 absorbing caps. Most days it's been cool lately,especially at night. They taste good already,so it's all good so far.The hop/malt flavors are actually improving.
 

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