So, what's the big deal with yeast starters?

Are they even remotely necessary? What possible issues could arise from not using a starter? I don't use them and I have had nothing but great results. I understand that yeast activity will start much faster, but is that even advantageous? I'm going to leave by brew in primary for 2-4 weeks anyway, so why the rush? With as much preaching about patience as there is in the homebrewing community, I don't see this being a practice that's compatible with that virtue.

Thoughts?

For average and low gravity brews they are not too necessary, but I do them anyway to get slightly quicker fermentation. For anything above 1.075 OG I think that a starter is generally necessary/very advantageous (get a higher cell count so the yeasties are ready to do their thing better/quicker).
Fermentation taking off quicker is advantageous because it slightly lowers the risk of infection, the yeast won't "kill off" other microbes, but they will hinder their reproduction and reduce any impact there might be if they are at an optimum concentration.

Using starters is so that you can pitch the right AMOUNT of yeast into your brew to stress them the least. It also helps them to get going when pitching into higher gravity worts. Wyeast recommends using a starter in any wort/brew with an OG over 1.060. There are more than a few people on here that make starters for all their brews, even lower OG ones. Just means you don't need to make as large of a starter.

I use starters mostly because I harvest/wash my yeast and I want to be sure that I've got good yeast going into the brew. Even when I'm not reusing yeast, most of the time I'll still make a starter. Most of my brews have an OG either damned close to, or over, 1.060 anyway.

Look at it this way... How would you feel about being taken right out of bed, dropped into a formula 1 race car and told to win a LeMans style race (with winning being the goal)? No practice time, no time to get to know the car, track, etc... Oh, and you're told that if you damage any part of the car, it's coming out of your pocket. Sure, you could get through the race, but you'll get whipped seven ways to Sunday. Now, same scenario, but you've had a year (or more) of training time, you KNOW the car, and you've had plenty of practice time on the track. Same thing for using starters for your yeast... Low OG brews are like driving down the regular roads. High OG brews are the above scenario. Anything between is, well, between the two ends.

IMO, starters are easy to make and are a benefit when used. Just like rehydrating dry yeast is to your advantage. Not everyone does it, and people will claim that they still get solid brews. But, I would wager the yeast will be stressed far less if you rehydrate them instead of pitching in dry...

There are plenty of threads that go over the benefits of both using starters and rehydrating dry yeast before pitching. IME, using a starter seriously reduces lag time for yeast, gives for stronger fermentation, with excellent results. Very much worth the tiny amount of effort you need to make in order to use one.

I'm planning on brewing a blonde ale on Monday, using Wyeast 1332 (first time with that strain)... Chances are, I'll get the yeast before the weekend is out, and make a small starter for it. Since I'm expecting an OG of about 1.060, I won't need to make a large starter, but I'll still make a starter for it.

Use Mr. Malty to determine if you need to make a starter, and how large you need to make it... If you have any doubts, try brewing a 10 gallon batch (or two 5 gallon batches of the exact same recipe). Ferment 5 gallons without using a starter, and the other 5 gallons with using a starter. Compare them along the way and see what you get. I would go with something that has an OG of over 1.060 for the test.

Plus its another way to get involved in your brew, kind of fun, its the foreplay before the actual brew.

Well you need to begin a starter up to a week in advance, so sure it'd take more patience. However, trying to exhibit any one particular virtue in such a sweeping manner is stupid if it won't help your beer. By that logic, brewers shouldn't be using wort chillers, not bothering with a cold break, risking an infection, potentially allowing their beer to turn into DMS soup.

A fast start lets you minimize risk of infection, so that's how it's beneficial.

But pitching proper amounts of yeast is crucial for optimal flavor profiles and the continued health of the yeast. A lot of flavor compounds are made during the yeast's growth phase, and both underpitching and overpitching can create excessive (or in some cases, insufficient) amounts of these compounds. Advanced brewers will often play around with pitching rates in order to manipulate these flavors, but it still negatively affects the health of the yeast, and only a handful of styles are able to really benefit from altered pitching rates.

Now as far as yeast health goes... not a big deal if you don't harvest or otherwise reuse yeast. Liquid yeast is expensive, and many people would rather not pay for multiple vials of the same strain. Dry yeast is cheaper (though the variety sucks), not to mention the cell counts are higher, but you're not supposed to make a starter with dry yeast anyways. But underpitching (AND overpitching) leads to problems with the yeast in successive generations. Research has shown that even the very first time you re-use that yeast, it will not attenuate as well. And attenuation problems will only get worse with each successive generation.

If you don't want to make starters, that's fine. But propagating yeast to boost yeast viability, vitality, AND cell counts before pitching is a more than valid practice. I have no doubt you can make good beer without a starter, although I can guarantee that the majority of your beers would have been even better had you used proper pitching rates - although, to be clear, if the wort has a fairly low OG then, depending on the freshness of the liquid yeast, you may very well have an adequate cell count even without making a starter - but in this case, nobody with the slightest clue of what they're doing would make a starter anyways.

bdeck02 said:

Are they even remotely necessary? What possible issues could arise from not using a starter? I don't use them and I have had nothing but great results. I understand that yeast activity will start much faster, but is that even advantageous? I'm going to leave by brew in primary for 2-4 weeks anyway, so why the rush? With as much preaching about patience as there is in the homebrewing community, I don't see this being a practice that's compatible with that virtue.

Thoughts?

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I had the same questions when I started. Do a search on here on under pitch vs. over pitch, Aeration/Oxygenation, yeast reproduction, and check out the Mr. Malty website for proper pitching amounts. It takes a little reading about the microbiology side of brewing to wrap your head around it, not bad though. If you don't want to deal with that, just use dry yeast.

This is quoted directly from the Wyeast website:
"The Activator™ package contains a minimum of 100 billion cells in a yeast slurry.. The Activator™ is designed to directly inoculate 5 gallons of standard strength ale wort (1.034-1.060 SG) with professional pitching rates."

What I dont understand is why does Wyeast say one thing, and Mr Malty say something different? Who is right? There is a lot of conflicting information.

I made a starter for my last brew, but frankly I could not tell any difference with the fermentation. Since I am mostly brewing mid to low gravity brews anyway, I think I will go with pitching the Wyeast smack packs without a starter, for the ease and simplicity, and save the starters for yeast harvesting.

Golddiggie said:

Look at it this way... How would you feel about being taken right out of bed, dropped into a formula 1 race car and told to win a LeMans style race (with winning being the goal)? No practice time, no time to get to know the car, track, etc... Oh, and you're told that if you damage any part of the car, it's coming out of your pocket.

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Second best way to wake up.... I'd be so happy!

IMHO.....
Beer is vunerable from the time when it is lowered below boiling until it has a nice layer of CO2 as a blanket and some ethanol to act as a germ fighter.

Making a starter reduces this time. While in my pre-starter days I had never had a 72 hour lag in the yeast starting, they appear to be pretty common based on the Beginners Forum. I would not want my batch sitting there vunerable for 72 hours.

I dunno man, a lot of the info I've been finding has no science behind it. (or at least references) I'm the type that likes to know the whys behind doing things, not just that someone says thats how its supposed to be done, so do it.

In my opinion, do it however you want, and if you're happy with the results, don't worry about it. Consider that forever ago, when people crafted beer, there was no such thing as smack packs, thermometers, air-locks, and star-san. Do whatever you feel comfortable doing so long as you're getting the results you want.

as always, thats just my 2 cents.

Simply put - when you dump the yeast into the wort, they're going to multiply into the trillions - That first pitch, while certainly eating some malt sugar, really goes to work reproducing (which is exactly why we aerate).

So - the more you pitch, the faster it gets to work - has less reproducing to do.

A vial or smack pack by itself will most certainly work. No question. But bumping it up with a starter will also work - perhaps better.

As mentioned, in lower OG worts, it's not as important. But, try to make a bigger brew, and you're going to be better off making a starter. A higher gravity wort will stress the yeast, making for longer lag times, and much slower starts. IMO, if you're making something with an OG above ~1.070 you're best to make a starter. Even if it's just a small one. OR pitch multiple packets of yeast into the batch. The issue there is cost. Liquid yeast usually runs $6-$8 per package. If you're making a brew with an OG of ~1.085, you'll need almost 4 packages to get into the area where you'll have enough yeast to do the job. But, you can get there with a single packet, using a ~4qt starter.

More often, I'm pitching in a washed yeast slurry. Even if I have sufficient yeast volume to pitch, I still make at least a small starter to ensure viability of the yeast. By small, I'm talking about a ~1.5qt starter.

BTW, pitching from slurry into the same ~1.085 I'll need between 140ml and 280ml for the batch. It all depends on the slurry yeast concentration. So, if I have a good amount of yeast in the slurry, I can pitch less. If there's less yeast in the slurry, then I'll need more. OR I can use less and make a decent starter for it to get into the range that I need.

I don't see an issue with under-pitching the yeast by a bit. But, I wouldn't go more than about 25% lower than what you should pitch.

IMO, pitching at least close to the correct amount of yeast is just one more important item on the list of things you really should be doing. Unless you don't care about giving the brew every advantage possible to become great.

Oh, and if you have a stir-plate, you can make smaller starters. A stir-plate is on my list of things to get/make this year...

Domminigan said:

Second best way to wake up.... I'd be so happy!

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I'd be confused why they wanted me to use a Formula 1 car in a LeMans race. Just for that inaccuracy everything that he said was FALSE!

Just kidding, he was spot on. As for the doubters, if you have a recipe you're happy with, try brewing it and making a starter. I'm willing to bet you'll see a faster, cleaner, and fuller (more attenuated) fermentation. If you really want to see the differences between starter and no starter, brew a lager. The difference between starter/no starter with ales may be hard to notice, but it'll be obvious with the lagers.

I personally make starters for every batch for a number of reasons. Sometimes I'm reusing yeast from a previous batch so I want to make sure I have healthy yeast. I also like my beers on the drier side, so I want full attenuation.

From White Labs:
How can I pitch 1 million cells per ml per degree Plato?

Some homebrewers now want to pitch more yeast in 5 gallons then a pint starter. An often quoted number is to pitch 1 million cells/ml/degree Plato of beer, which equals about 250 billion cells for 5 gallons. That is okay, more cells are not detrimental until about 400 billion cells. For those that enjoy yeast culturing and want 250 billion cells, one vial can be added directly to 2 liters of wort starter, and after two days of incubation, will be equal to roughly 250 billion cells. Is this necessary? Every brewer will have a different opinion, but here is some information:

a. The source of the 1 million cells/ml/degree Plato figure: Professional brewery literature.
Most professional breweries re-pitch their yeast because they have the fermentor design and facilities to reuse yeast. So most brewery pitches are actually re-pitches, and only 2-10% of brewery pitchings are using freshly propagated yeast. One of the main sources of contamination in a brewery is the pitching yeast. So in order to out-compete other organisms, large quantities of yeast must be pitched. When propagated by a professional yeast laboratory, the yeast is grown under sterile conditions, sterileoxygen and special nutrients are used to improve cell construction and performance. This does not occur in a brewery, so numbers they use to "pitch" take into account the inadequacy of their brewers yeast. The yeast is also unhealthy due to prolonged growth without oxygen and nutrients. In addition, brewers yeast will always contain some contaminants that need to be out-grown, and 1 million cells per ml per degree Plato has been found to be the best marriage of high pitching rates and no negative flavor effects (Higher pitching rates can lead to unhealthy yeast and a "yeasty" off bite). Liquid yeast grown by a professional laboratory should have no contaminants, so out competing contaminants found in the pitching yeast is not a concern.

One thing that contributes to flavor contribution in beer is yeast growth. If less yeast is pitched into beer, more yeast growth takes place, so more flavor compounds such as esters are produced. Depending on the amount produced, this is how pitching rates can have a direct effect on flavor profile. If 5 to 10 billion cells are pitched into wort, this definitely has a negative flavor impact in terms of higher ester levels and potential for bacterial contamination. But does a pint starter worth of yeast (30-50 billion cells) pitched into beer tasted different then 2 liters worth of yeast (250 billion cells)? Sounds like more homebrew has to be made to get to the bottom of this! Your feedback is appreciated.

From Wyeast:
Making a starter culture to increase the quantity of yeast pitched into a particular beer is a great way to assure consistent results. If you are brewing a high gravity beer (greater than 1.065 original gravity) or a lager that will be fermented cold then you need to increase your pitch rate by pitching more packages of yeast or making a starter culture.

The Wyeast Activator (125 ml) smack-pack is designed to directly inoculate 5 gallons of standard ale wort (O.G. < 1.060, 65-72°F). When brewing high gravity beer (O.G. >1.060) or cold fermented lagers or ales (<65°F)) additional yeast will be required. An Activator contains approximately 100 billion cells which will deliver slightly less than 6 million cells per milliliter in a 5 gallon batch of beer.

The Wyeast Propagator (50 ml) smack-pack requires a propagation step before pitching into any beer. A Propagator contains approximately 25 billion cells.

How Does Pitch Rate Affect My Beer?

Pitch rates make a dramatic difference in the final flavor and aroma profile of any beer. Ester production is directly related to yeast growth as are most other flavor and aroma compounds.

A low pitch rate can lead to:
Excess levels of diacetyl
Increase in higher/fusel alcohol formation
Increase in ester formation
Increase in volatile sulfur compounds
High terminal gravities
Stuck fermentations
Increased risk of infection

High pitch rates can lead to:
Very low ester production
Very fast fermentations
Thin or lacking body/mouthfeel
Autolysis (Yeasty flavors due to lysing of cells)

I figure that the two big guys in the yeast business have probably studied the results of the products they produce and the best way to use them. There's undoubtedly a bunch of science behind the information they've posted to their sites.

I recall seeing cars using different fuels at the race I went to (in 2008)...

Looking over the pictures again, there were a mix... P2 and GT2 being just two of the ones I can identify without digging too deep...

Style of the cars was also pretty wide ranging. Just one shot is here

oh, by the way, the Wyeast calculator was developed by Wyeast and JZ (Mr. Malty) in cooperation. I figure they have tons more access to the science than I do. At some point I have to assume that someone (that has done the science) knows more about it than I do (besides the fact that I'm a relative noob ~ 4 yrs of brewing thus far).

There's a difference between someone with a commercial interest (yeast companies) making a recommendation ("You can use our product to easily!!!") and an unbiased and tested expert making a best-practices recommendation.

Again, sure you probably don't need to make a starter. I never have because I've stuck to smaller OG 5 gallon batches for the most part. My first BIG Belgian could have benefited from a starter. So I'm building a cigar box stir plate.

JetSmooth said:

There's a difference between someone with a commercial interest (yeast companies) making a recommendation ("You can use our product to easily!!!") and an unbiased and tested expert making a best-practices recommendation.

Again, sure you probably don't need to make a starter. I never have because I've stuck to smaller OG 5 gallon batches for the most part. My first BIG Belgian could have benefited from a starter. So I'm building a cigar box stir plate.

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+1 very true... but, you also have access to Mr. Malty, a free calculator that uses the science to grow starters based on 1 vial of the commercial stuff. I'm assuming there's no financial gain for him in that. Actually, the calculator tells you the number of vials/packs or liters of starter so you can grow a starter or just pitch extra vials.

If the smack-pack is fresh, and you get good inflation in it, you should be set for brews with OG's under 1.060. Even Wyeast says to make a starter for anything with an OG of over 1.060, or pitch more packets in... Since the majority of my brews are over 1.060, I just make a starter. It's easy to get into the practice...

Not sure what will house my stir-plate yet... Still far enough away from that to think about it more... I have the fan, DC power supply, speed controller, but need to get the magnet(s) off of the plates their on, or pick up some that I won't need to mess with...

Under-pitching can lead to undesirable flavors from fusel alcohol, unwanted esters, and like others have said, the longer your beer takes to start, the higher the likelihood of infection.

Now, starters are important for liquid yeasts because a single vial just doesn't give you enough yeast for your batch.

With dry yeast, you normally don't need a starter. The cell count is generally much higher. If you're worried about underpitching you can always use two packets instead of one. Some people here rehydrate dry yeast, but I tend to be impatient, so I just sprinkle it in there.

Seems like the appropriate amount of yeast would be dependent on the original gravity and the associated profile of the wort.

Just1pepsi said:

Seems like the appropriate amount of yeast would be dependent on the original gravity and the associated profile of the wort.

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Exactly, that's what Mr. Malty calculates. Mr. Malty is Jamil's site and no, he does not get any money from it.

Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the age and the way that smack pack was stored also plays a role in the need for a starter. I'm making a 1.048 wit and just made a starter for it. The yeast was made March first 2011, stored in the fridge. Now I will know that I have viable yeast and enough to get the job done, peace of mind goes a long way.

Even with the old standard safale-05 I make sure to rehydrate. It just looks better going into the wort (subjective), and also there is more surface area since the yeast is dissolved. Also, I don't need to look at dates on packages. When it foams and bubbles it's alright to pitch.

It will all do the same thing, but since I do most brews 1.06x and above, I like to make a starter.

I do the same for bread and pizza dough, as well.

astropunk said:

This is quoted directly from the Wyeast website:
"The Activator™ package contains a minimum of 100 billion cells in a yeast slurry.. The Activator™ is designed to directly inoculate 5 gallons of standard strength ale wort (1.034-1.060 SG) with professional pitching rates."

What I dont understand is why does Wyeast say one thing, and Mr Malty say something different? Who is right? There is a lot of conflicting information.

Click to expand...

ettbeer said:

the yeast that wyeast is claiming is enough to inoculate 5gal, is their test results on fresh yeast straight off the line.. you have to figure the viability after time and handling conditions you're not getting anywhere near that when you get the yeast to your house. under pitching can cause diacetyl, acetaldehyde, fusels created during yeast reproduction..

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Exactly. If you get an ultra fresh package directly from Wyeast, they have 100 million cells. But what if it sat in a hot delivery truck over the weekend on the way to the store? What if the package is more than three weeks old?

A starter is always a good idea with liquid yeast, and required for any OG of 1.060 or more.