Huaco
Well-Known Member
All I could find was the 50 amp GFCI breaker... I plan on ordering a "Kit" from The ElectricBrewery.com Will this be too much juice going through the panel? Sorry... I am not too familiar with electronics.
50 Amp 240V powering a "Kal Clone"
- Thread starter Huaco
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Seriously consider doing some background reading before you get started here.
The rating on the breaker is just its maximum rating. The amount of power it is able to deliver will still be limited by the service to your house. Are you sure that your outlet wiring is up to running that much electricity?
The rating on the breaker is just its maximum rating. The amount of power it is able to deliver will still be limited by the service to your house. Are you sure that your outlet wiring is up to running that much electricity?
Please tell us more about your power set up.
You say you have a 50A GFCI breaker - Where is it installed (Main panel or a Spa Panel)?
What size wire do you have running to your brewery outlet? In other words - what was the breaker size in the mains panel?
What outlet do you have for your brewery - a dryer or a range outlet.
A simple sketch up might help us give you sound advice.
Please help us help you.
P-J
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Huaco
Well-Known Member
Ok... I had an entire write-up ready and must have hit submit right after the site went down for work... I will do my best to replicate what I had typed this time around.
I had the breaker and outlet installed by a licensed electrician. He installed the 4 wire outlet about a foot below my 200 amp breaker box and mounted it to the stud the breaker box is mounted to. He ran 6-3 with ground wire to the outlet in case I ever wanted to upgrade my control box to run simultaneous batches and needed more amps.
From the outlet, I plan to build a 30' extension cord to get my system out to the driveway on good-weather days. I also get great ventilation in my garage so I will be brewing in there too. The extension will be comprised of a 4-prong male plug and a NEMA L14-30 connector on the other end with either 6-3, 8-3, or 10-3 with ground flexible wire.
BTW---
I plan to wire up the control box myself after watching and reading as much as I can to learn the ins-and-outs of this. Also... I WILL NOT PUT ANY JUICE through this system until I get a trained set of eyes on the wires to verify it is all up to snuff...
I appreciate all the help guys.
I had the breaker and outlet installed by a licensed electrician. He installed the 4 wire outlet about a foot below my 200 amp breaker box and mounted it to the stud the breaker box is mounted to. He ran 6-3 with ground wire to the outlet in case I ever wanted to upgrade my control box to run simultaneous batches and needed more amps.
From the outlet, I plan to build a 30' extension cord to get my system out to the driveway on good-weather days. I also get great ventilation in my garage so I will be brewing in there too. The extension will be comprised of a 4-prong male plug and a NEMA L14-30 connector on the other end with either 6-3, 8-3, or 10-3 with ground flexible wire.
BTW---
I plan to wire up the control box myself after watching and reading as much as I can to learn the ins-and-outs of this. Also... I WILL NOT PUT ANY JUICE through this system until I get a trained set of eyes on the wires to verify it is all up to snuff...
I appreciate all the help guys.
Ok. You have a 50A - 240V GFCI set up. Good job.
Then you say you will be running a 30' cord to your brewery with a NEMA L14-30 connector on the end. That is a seriously bad idea. The connector is rated for 30A with a power feed of 50A. Please think this point through.
Then you say you will be running a 30' cord to your brewery with a NEMA L14-30 connector on the end. That is a seriously bad idea. The connector is rated for 30A with a power feed of 50A. Please think this point through.
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Huaco
Well-Known Member
This is why I am asking... I am spec-ing that to Kal's specs on his site.
So... following this logic, should I just upgrade the control panel now to the 50 amp breaker? OR... could I run a 50 amp rated cord to the control panel and put an inline fuse rated at 30 amps before I get to any of my electrical equipment in the box?
You could do it either way. (But, I'd use circuit breakers for the 240V circuits. Not fuses. That's just me.)
If it were my project? I would run your 50A's all the way to the brew panel and then set the panel up to handle that (you will need circuit breakers within the panel). There are benefits for doing it this way.
Kal's control panel (@ 30A) is set up as a single process controller - But it has multiple control functions built into it. With a 50A power source, it would not be very difficult to set up your control panel for a 50A feed. With that done, you would have the ability to do back to back brew batches. Kal's will only handle one process at a time.
I agree. You have 50A available, build a 50A controller. It is very nice to be able to run boil and HLT elements at the same time.
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Huaco
Well-Known Member
Yes... But I am under the impression that upgrading everything to 50A would sky-rocket the expense of the panel.
PleasantValleyHops
Well-Known Member
Huaco said:
This is why i ended up switching to just a 30a setup. All the components seem to end up almost double to do the 50a setup. Which as lots have said. Budgets have to stay that way. Good luck deciding!!
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Huaco
Well-Known Member
If the "Kal panel" only uses 26 amps, wouldn't a 30 amp fuse work? I don't understand how to put a breaker into a panel... or are there other types of breakers besides the ones I am used to seeing in my breaker box in the garage...
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Huaco
Well-Known Member
Ahhh... This is better. I can look this up. I can fit one in the panel and run 30A components from there on out? Then later, if I want to upgrade, I can buy the 50A components and remove the 30A Din rail breaker?
I think that depends on the components you choose and the bells and whistles you add. you really don't need any 50A components, just fuses or breakers.
The cord to the panel will be more expensive but the controller itself can be done at a reasonalble cost. I helped a member out with this build:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/50a-hlt-boil-controller-277903/
He was in the same position with 50A available and only planning to use 30A. I'm sure the cost was less than a full on Kal clone but it is much more bare-bones.
To expand on what lschiavo said, only a relatively small number of your components will need to be able to carry a full 50A. The wiring on each individual element, for example, would be the same as on a 30A system (assuming you use the same elements that Kal describes). The advantage is simply that you can be running both your HLT and your kettle at the same time.
If you go this route, you want to make sure that everything is properly fused.
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Huaco
Well-Known Member
Can you elaborate? I assume you mean fast blow fuses, but what else would be required to "fuse everything properly"?
I have an email into Kal asking if he could modify a "kit" with my 50A situation. Or, it may just be that I purchase the kit from him and make the changes I need to handle the 50A service.
P-J is far more of an expert on this than I am, but basically you want to make sure that none of your components could possibly pull more electricity than they are rated for. If that happens, you can blow out components or start fires.
So, if you've got wiring rated to only 30A in your 50A system, you want a 30A fuse in there to make sure that any excessive current draws will fail safely. Your breaker will make sure that your system as a whole doesn't draw more than 50A.
sethhobrin
Well-Known Member
PJ just did a schematic for me for this exact thing. See the facebook album on my build thread for the wiring schematic on using breakers with a 50A main panel feed.
BUILD THREAD: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/just-another-electric-brewery-build-thread-317746/#post3951391
SCHEMATIC: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....394419.609036957&type=3&l=fea2ecd889&theater
Fuses protect the wire and components. Once you have the 50A in the control panel, you can tap off of it and fuse down. Say #10 wire/ 30A fuse to an element or #14/ 15A fuse for a pump circuit.
Fast blow fuses are generally used for sensitive equipment and really are not necessary here although they will work.
Standard circuit breakers are inverse-time which means the higher the overload, the faster they trip. That would be similar to a time delay fuse. Each will allow an overload for a short time which helps in starting motors but wont help for heating elements. I'd say use whatever you can find the best deal on. I used NON fuses as I have tons of them laying around.
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Huaco
Well-Known Member
I am following the sticky at Kal's site, except I am only using two heating elements. I will use 30A fuses between the contactors and the element receptacles.
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24918
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24918
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Huaco
Well-Known Member
Kal just emailed me yesterday evening and attached his price list. On the list there is an upgrade Kit for a 50 Amp "Back to Back" system. (Able to run both elements at the same time) The price difference was really not near as much as I thought it would be. Now, the 30 foot power cord I was planning to make just got a LOT more expensive since I plan to use 6/3 with ground all the way to the panel!!!
