School me on Heatsticks and Steam

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Sephro

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Okay, I had just started hearing about using these 2 methods of heating the mash.
What are the advantages of one over the other?
How do you use them? Do you still try to get the strike temp as close to the desired temp as possible? Just get it up some then heat it the rest of the way with either steam or heatstick?

Any other info would be appreciated! I know almost nothing about using either...

Thanks!
 
I've seen those but what about steam? I found someone on here had made a steam heater using a small pressure cooker.. Does that work as well or better than a heat stick? If I only had one would I be able to read mash temps? Would I still need to heat the water with one?
 
Yes I try to strike at the right temp if I need to adjust I use hot water that flows around my jacketed mash tun and back to a boil tank to reheat. This system works great for gradual step increases in mash temps, from 142 up to 158. It is not as fast as a herm system. I pump boiling water through the jacket I get no scortching and I don't melt through the plastic mash tun( I will stick with liquid smoke). I have used steam before useing a converted pasturerizar for milk. It worked but I like the jacketed setup better as it maintains mash temps and is easy to clean.
 
Beer Snob said:


Oh that was COLD, Snob!!!!!:)

Despite my one major setback, I am still a proponent of heatsticks. I have used them quite a bit in the past without incident(I know, I know.....). Despite my foul mood yesterday I'm not ready to give up on them, I just need to think on the subject a bit and come up with a more "meltproof"system. It'll be awhile before I brew again, though so I'll have to let you knowat a later date.......
 
ablrbrau said:
Oh that was COLD, Snob!!!!!:)

Despite my one major setback, I am still a proponent of heatsticks. I have used them quite a bit in the past without incident(I know, I know.....). Despite my foul mood yesterday I'm not ready to give up on them, I just need to think on the subject a bit and come up with a more "meltproof"system. It'll be awhile before I brew again, though so I'll have to let you knowat a later date.......

:D Ah.... Notice I did not want to say anything on if it was positive or negative.... thought he should figure that out for himself. Actually those links I put up were not ones I just found but found a while ago cause I was thinking of making one. I got to the point where it said that if you use more then one on a circuit you'll blow it.

You know I am interested in one thing though now that you mention it. They do get hot right... how is it that this does not happen all the time? Like your thought on how to solve this problem I had figured that the container would be pretty metalic so I was actually pretty surprised to hear from you that this thing does not happen.

Like I said before though... I would have done the exact same thing... what is it with us and more power huh :D
 
Well that thread was the first I had really heard of heat sticks... Then after looking and thinking about that one I was wondering about using steam... Maybe that would be less chance of having an accident like that?? Basically I have only a 5 gallon M/L tun (Rubbermaid water cooler) and with some larger batches if I don't hit my target first try it fills the cooler too much to get enough water in for the mashout... I thought if I could use something like this (holding it the whole time) maybe I wouldn't have to worry as much about running out of room...
 
Sephro said:
Okay, I had just started hearing about using these 2 methods of heating the mash.
What are the advantages of one over the other?
How do you use them? Do you still try to get the strike temp as close to the desired temp as possible? Just get it up some then heat it the rest of the way with either steam or heatstick?
Any other info would be appreciated! I know almost nothing about using either...
Here's a procedure on using steam.
Here's one on heatstick construction.

Good luck,
Wild
 
I browsed through the link on steam, and I must say, it's a lot of Greek to me. But that's probably why I'm an electrician not a plumber. Which is also probably why I'm more prone to heatsticks.
Here are the pros and cons to heatsticks as I see them ( perhaps someone who knows more about steam can do the same for that):

Pros:
1. Safe if (and this is an important if) used properly with a GFCI.
2. Easy and inexpensive to make.
3. Portable
4. Can be used to preheat the mash tun along with the strike water.
5. Can be used to raise temp of mash when step- mashing.
6. Can be used to augment heat from stove or propane burner for a quicker, more vigorous boil

Cons:

1. Can be dangerous (even downright deadly) when NOT used properly with a GFCI
2. Can be dangerous to your MLT if you're not careful:cross:
3. Could scorch your mash if adding too many or too powerful of a heatstick when trying to raise temp for a step-mash.

Hey Beer Snob I noticed in one guy's website that he put a "glob" of caulk on the tip of his stick to prevent melting his MLT. I never did that, that may have been a cotributing factor to my disaster. I think I'm going to have to do that or find a way to suspend the stick in mid-mash without it touching the sides or bottom of the cooler. That might cure my ills. Cheers
 
ablrbrau said:
Hey Beer Snob I noticed in one guy's website that he put a "glob" of caulk on the tip of his stick to prevent melting his MLT. I never did that, that may have been a cotributing factor to my disaster. I think I'm going to have to do that or find a way to suspend the stick in mid-mash without it touching the sides or bottom of the cooler. That might cure my ills. Cheers

Thats the website that kinda shyed me away from them... 12 amps.... 12 amps! That takes some SERIOUS appreciation of equipment before even remotly thinking about using one. My first job after school was with the phone company doing electrical. In that field you get mildly electricuted all the time (low amps, high volts) when folks make calls and you happen to be working on the line. With my heart condition that I found out way after the job, I often wonder if 9/11 and hence my layoff saved my sorry A$$.
 
I'm really interested in installing a steam system to heat my mash and keep the sparge tank warm (both are plastic coolers). I think this will be my next project after I finish the fridge & fermentation cooler box thingy that's going in under the stairs (to keep my kegs cool and out of the way - I'll have to post about this in another thread if I ever get it done and it actually works). Anyhow, here's what I've found on steam:

Here are two sites about steam and homebrewing:
this one was posted above, by Wild: http://brewery.org/brewery/library/SteInjCS1295.html

and this one is also good: http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.4/jones.html

Here's an interesting site that's aimed primarily at industrial use of steam and steam heater systems (I assume they're used to heat large buildings but since I live in FL I really don't know much about how the north stays warm in the winter). It's focused on the "water hammer" phenomena that has some of you concerned..
http://www.bellgossett.com/Press/good.htm

Here's my attempt at a summary:

1. You can superheat the steam by running it through a coil placed in a fire (i.e. the propane burner under the kettle or sparge tank). I think this is getting fancier than necessary but hey, if you want to go all out then I'd like to see how it works.

2. Water hammer occurs when the steam condenses on it's way into the mash tun, sparge tank, or wherever it exits. The steam will carry the condensed water along with it as it moves rapidly through the pipe and will ram the water "slug" into any elbows, turns, or restrictions in the flow line. It can be very destructive. Obviously, the way to deal with this (if you think it'll even be an issue) is to place a drain on the pipe before it goes up hill and before it reaches any bends or restrictions. Leave the drain valve (i.e. ball valve) open a touch or maybe open it slightly when or if you experience water hammer. Remember not to have a long section of horizontal or down hill pipe after the drain valve as this provides another spot for the steam to condense and form another water slug. The drain should be located down hill of the flow of steam so that the condensate will naturally flow out by way of gravity. An even easier solution, the way I see it at least, is to avoid any horizontal sections of pipe.. keep it as vertical as possible at all times so that any condensate can just flow back into the pressure cooker. For this reason I think the cooker should be below the mash or sparge tank but remember, some section of the steam pipe must be above the mash/sparge or the liquid from the cooler will flow down into the pressure cooker. Basically, the line needs to go up the side of the cooler and then take a quick and short (to avoid hammer) downward turn into the mash where it vents.

3. Larger diameter pipe should (I think) reduce the velocity of any given volume of steam and will consequently reduce the velocity of any water slugs. Bigger pipe is better and hard pipe seems, to me, to be sturdier than soft pipe. I think copper will work fine.

4. The exit of the steam should consist of a section of pipe (a coil if you want to get fancy) with holes drilled in it placed under that which you want to heat.

5. Shutting off the heat to the pressure cooker will cause the steam inside to cool and condense thereby creating a vacuum. This vacuum could easily suck the contents of you mash down into the cooker and create a heck of a mess. If you shut it off then make sure you can vent it somehow so that it can suck air in (or water from the sparge tank) rather than your mash.

6. I think a good design would incorporate a y and a valve that would allow you to redirect the steam to either the mash or the HLT. It would allow you shut the steam off to the mash instantly rather than shutting off the heat to the cooker and waiting for it to cool.. plus, you wouldn't have to worry about your mash getting sucked into the cooker when you shut it off, it'd suck the sparge water in instead and would be an easy way to refill the thing if it got empty (no need to wait for it to get cool enough to take the lid off).

7. Don't tamper with the safety valve. Obviously this just doesn't sound like a good idea. Drill a hole in the lid and tap it and thread a fitting on it, don't use the fitting to attach the steam pipe, the safety valve is there for a reason.

Disclaimer: I am not an engineer and haven't tried any of this myself (yet). Please don't burn yourself but if you do then please get on here and tell us about it so we can have a good laugh at your expense.

:mug:
 
Thanks! Gonna look at this more today. I built a heatstick last night because it seems easier to build than the steam setup. But I think that the steam still sounds very interesting...
 
I'm using heatsticks for a batch right now. I use them in the cooler mash tun to heat the strike water, in the hlt and the boil as well.

What I have done to avoid the "bad day" or plastic vessel meltdown, is to wrap the very end, last inch or so, of the stick w/ some copper building wire so that the actual element can not touch cooler and cause meltdown. Works very well!
 
Something I read in this thread that is false, is the heatstick can NOT be used to step mash. You can not put a heat stick in the mash without scorching the **** out of some of the grains. You can step with boiling water infusions, but do not add the stick to the mash.
 
Something I read in this thread that is false, is the heatstick can NOT be used to step mash. You can not put a heat stick in the mash without scorching the **** out of some of the grains. You can step with boiling water infusions, but do not add the stick to the mash.

While I have not done a step mash w/ a heatstick, I have used one to make small adjustments after mashing in a few degrees low. If the stick is stirring the mash no scorching occured.
 
While I have not done a step mash w/ a heatstick, I have used one to make small adjustments after mashing in a few degrees low. If the stick is stirring the mash no scorching occured.

I guess I can see that, but only in the way that if you pass your hand through a flame quickly, it won't burn you.


Personally I wouldn't do it as boiling water additions have always worked fine for me.
 
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