Alcohol content

I had some friends over to bottle beer and one asked if it is possible to raise the alcohol content. I know that corn sugar will raise it but what will it do to the flavor of the beer? I figured that adding 2.5 lbs to the next batch will raise it from 4.3% to 7.2%.
I also noticed when I pluged in the ingredients to the program I am using that the IBU's went down when I added the sugar.

IBU's may go down due to dilution, but not sure... or maybe sugars decrease hops utilization. Someone may have to chime in on that one... But as for adding sugar, its best to use something like turbinado sugar in the boil, from what I've read. I'm planning on giving it a try soon. It tends to lend the right kinds of flavors to the beer wort. The corn sugar works, but I don't know much about it. I've used for bottling and for apfelwine w/ great success, but... not w/ beer.

Anyone else w/ input?

the best way to raise the ABV is to use more malt sugars and just make a bigger beer.

While dumping in sugar will raise ABV, it will also do a lot of other things to the beer. Mostly undesirable. It will thin the body, lower the FG (dry it out) and could make the beer taste cidery if too much is used. Some beers on the other hand use a little bit of sugar to get higher gravity and keep the body thinner (and more drinkable). Tripels and Double IPAs will often include up to 1lb of sugar. Some Belgian styles use invert sugars too.

Instead of dumping sugar into your beer, why not brew styles that have naturally higher OG? Barleywine, RIS, Old Ale, IPA, IIPA, Tripel, Dubbel. The list goes on. That, or choose a style that uses a little sugar for the right reasons?

if you just want alcohol, use honey, rice syrup, or table sugar as they are 90%+ fermentables.

It will definitely dry it out and could cause some undesirable flavors. I wouldn't recommend going that high. I sometimes add sugar to really big beers because there is so much malt in there anyway and its a good way to dry it out, say for a Imperial IPA.

I've also used this in a barleywine:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_21_73_404&products_id=10137

No way I would use it in a recipe designed for 4.3% though. If you want a big beer, make one that is appropriate, stylistically speaking. If you REALLY want to just raise it with wreckless abandom, just add a couple more pounds of DME (assuming you're doing extract).

Edcculus said:

IBUs are affected by OG. The higher the OG, the more hops you will need to get the same IUS.

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This is not true. As a side effect of what really happens, higher OG tends to lead to less hop utilization. In this case, adding a bunch of dextrose will not effect the hop utilization near as much as adding a bunch of malt(in whatever form).

Now, I'm paraphrasing from a thread in which we discussed the matter over in the science section, but..

American Society of Brewing Chemists said:

The variations are mainly due to differences in equipment but are also influenced by the hop product used. In the range 10.5-13.5° P, no relationship between hop utilization and original gravity was found

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Here's that article in whole: http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/abstracts/backissues/47-14.htm

also, in this BBR broadcast, John Palmer talks on the matter, and how he got it wrong early on.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr03-20-08ibu.mp3
36:40 is where the discussion happens. Bascially he goes over how hop utilization is a function of break material, and because high gravity beers tends to have more break material, they usually get lower hop utilization.

This is a long held and hard to kill myth of homebrewing. It is also why a lot of beer software gets the IBUs wrong as well.

if a fermentable is nearly completely fermented, it does little to effect the bitterness.

mordantly said:

if a fermentable is nearly completely fermented, it does little to effect the bitterness.

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You mean adding sugar post boil? It will not change the bitterness at all... at least the IBU's. Alcohol has a bittering character.

Cool, thanks z987k. Post edited. Now that you mention it, I do remember reading about that recently.

it doesn't really matter when you add the simple sugars in my opinion.. utilization factors aside, you have to introduce unfermentables to significantly alter the ibus. i can't say i have ever noticed any bittering from alcohol in beer. but in spirits, one does notice, since hops and malt remnants are not present.

Yeah... don't add more than .25lbs of corn sugar to a 4.3% beer or it'll ruin the beer. And adding .25 will also contribute to making the beer less desirable and barley raise the ABV. Next time, either make a 2.5 gallon batch with just as much grain (to save money) or just brew high gravity beers. Costs more, but it makes amazing beer. You'd basically be making kilju (sugar wine) that is half beer. Weird stuff. Maybe try it with half a gallon or a gallon first, if you want..

gtpro said:

the best way to raise the ABV is to use more malt sugars and just make a bigger beer.

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What do you mean by "bigger beer?" I have seen that description a few times and have wondered what it meant.

GRHunter said:

What do you mean by "bigger beer?" I have seen that description a few times and have wondered what it meant.

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Higher OG.

GRHunter said:

What do you mean by "bigger beer?" I have seen that description a few times and have wondered what it meant.

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Higher OG. As in "an IPA is a bigger beer than a Pale Ale."

Wow, I was thinking either bigger volume or bigger ABV. Higher OG never crossed my mind. Thanks for helping me out with that.

Some of the Vendors on here and others offer a 1.99 or 1.00 1% ABV Booster Pack that is supposed to not mess with beer flavor at all.......

Just thought. Not sure if anyone has used them but I was thinking about it.....

brewagentjay said:

Some of the Vendors on here and others offer a 1.99 or 1.00 1% ABV Booster Pack that is supposed to not mess with beer flavor at all.......

Just thought. Not sure if anyone has used them but I was thinking about it.....

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Yeah, it's probably just some DME and/or corn sugar. I had a 4.8% AG oatmeal stout due to not getting the boil-off I predicted. I later boiled enough DME to add about 1% to the beer and it turned out just fine, at 5.8%. Delicious. I personally wouldn't recommend doing this unless you made an error like I did (lol) and I would only use DME if it was a lower ABV beer. I wouldn't use (more than .5lbs of) corn sugar unless it was a higher gravity beer that I wouldn't mind drying out. An IIPA for instance. I recently did an (I)IIPA that I was going to add 1lb of corn sugar to (@ 9%), but I decided to use a lb of honey instead.

So should I try these booster packs they sell as an option with any kit you buy? Also will honey completely ferment out with out affecting taste? I'm curious. I plan doing this will IPA or Darker Beers but I'd prefer to limit any affects it'll have on flavor.

brewagentjay said:

So should I try these booster packs they sell as an option with any kit you buy? Also will honey completely ferment out with out affecting taste? I'm curious. I plan doing this will IPA or Darker Beers but I'd prefer to limit any affects it'll have on flavor.

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Sure, you can buy it if you want. Shouldn't affect the flavor too much, but it'll make the body lighter (more watery). Honey will add a honey taste to the beer, that's why I used it in my (I)IIPA. Hopslam has honey in it. So, if you want honey flavor, go ahead and add it- it will mostly ferment out. I'm not looking at any numbers, but I'm thinking it is 95-98% fermentable. For a darker beer, I'd probably just use DME. But my overall advice would be to just use more base grain (if you do AG) and maybe increase your specialty grains a tiny bit more (to the scale of the original recipe). So, if you had something like

10lb 2-row
.5 lb crystal 40
.25 cara-pils

just add a bit more

12lbs 2-row
.65 lb crystal 40
.35 cara-pils (you don't really need to increase this)

Thanks for all the feedback. I can see I will just have to look at some recipes in the IPA variety. I just figured some sugar could be added without changing the beer but I figured there had to be a limit to it.

beerguy2009 said:

Thanks for all the feedback. I can see I will just have to look at some recipes in the IPA variety. I just figured some sugar could be added without changing the beer but I figured there had to be a limit to it.

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IPA's are usually best enjoyed when they are dried out, so that the flavor focus is on the hops (brings them out more). 1lb is usually used for stuff around 8%+. Use your rational to decide what would be good for something of a lower ABV if you so choose to add corn sugar to it.

ajwillys said:

No way I would use it in a recipe designed for 4.3% though. If you want a big beer, make one that is appropriate, stylistically speaking. If you REALLY want to just raise it with wreckless abandom, just add a couple more pounds of DME (assuming you're doing extract).

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Well I already have the ingerdients and just wanted to change it a bit. If I add 1.5lbs of DME, I calculated that the SG will go up to about 1.055 but what will the addition of the DME do to the flavor?
I plan on looking at bigger beers in the future but I just wanted to jack up this next one if I can.
I currently like the Pale Ales and Brown Ales. I haven't done any really bitter beers yet so don't know if I would like them. Any suugestions on other styles or recipes I should check out?
BTW, I am currently making extract beers as I am new to brewing.

beerguy2009 said:

Well I already have the ingerdients and just wanted to change it a bit. If I add 1.5lbs of DME, I calculated that the SG will go up to about 1.055 but what will the addition of the DME do to the flavor?
I plan on looking at bigger beers in the future but I just wanted to jack up this next one if I can.
I currently like the Pale Ales and Brown Ales. I haven't done any really bitter beers yet so don't know if I would like them. Any suugestions on other styles or recipes I should check out?
BTW, I am currently making extract beers as I am new to brewing.

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It would make the beer maltier and toss the OG/BU ratio off. If you wanted the same-ish beer writ larger, keep the OG/BU ratio the same and scale the OG to where you want it.

It won't be the exact same beer, but it would contain some of the same elements of the beer you started with.

Please don't just add in sugar. This is what Budweiser and the like do. It dilutes you beer, kills the body, and destroys head retention. Pour some American golden lager crap and see the head fizz out like coca cola, that is what corn sugar does. It adds nothing good to the beer except alcohol. That is not what making beer is about.

beerguy2009 said:

Thanks for all the feedback. I can see I will just have to look at some recipes in the IPA variety. I just figured some sugar could be added without changing the beer but I figured there had to be a limit to it.

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Since you don't know if you like IPA's I would start off making an IIPA. Usually requires more malt backbone (more sugars=higher alcohol content) and the hops tend to balance in a lot more. I love IIPA's more than I do IPA's but both are great, just depends on what you're interested in tasting.

AirBronto said:

Please don't just add in sugar. This is what Budweiser and the like do. It dilutes you beer, kills the body, and destroys head retention. Pour some American golden lager crap and see the head fizz out like coca cola, that is what corn sugar does. It adds nothing good to the beer except alcohol. That is not what making beer is about.

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Budweiser does not contain sugar, only whole grains.

Pliny the Elder and Rochefort do contain sugar so please direct your anger to those products.

remilard said:

Budweiser does not contain sugar, only whole grains.

Pliny the Elder and Rochefort do contain sugar so please direct your anger to those products.

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By the end of the process none of them contain sugar. That is the point. How on earth can they get their beer that light and crappy with out using adjuncts like sugar. I also don't need a reason to hate Budweiser.

AirBronto said:

By the end of the process none of them contain sugar. That is the point. How on earth can they get their beer that light and crappy with out using adjuncts like sugar. I also don't need a reason to hate Budweiser.

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It's all grain, barley malt and rice.

They get their beer that light by amazing adherence to the process. Call the beer style what you will, AB has some phenomenally gifted brewers. If you want to debate that, look to Mitch Steele from Stone. His formative education in brewing is all from AB.

AirBronto said:

By the end of the process none of them contain sugar. That is the point. How on earth can they get their beer that light and crappy with out using adjuncts like sugar. I also don't need a reason to hate Budweiser.

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I don't know how Rochefort gets their beer so light and crappy tasting, it must be the sugar.

Is using rice not about the same as just using sugar. All you get from it is fermentation sugar. That is why they use it, to lighten the body. And yes you are right they are very talented at making very sub par beer.

Rochefort uses corn too. Double crappy. Chimay uses sugar and "wheat starch" whatever that is. C to the RAPPY.

Michelobe on the other hand is an all malt beer and I'm sure we can come together to praise it's greatness.

The last page of this thread has convinced me not to drink Pliny anymore. I will stick with Michelob. Thank you for your insight.

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=10137

"The BrewVint Alcohol Boost is 55% maltose and 45% glucose. This dry sugar adjunct will boost the alcohol content without changing the taste, color, or aroma of the beer. One 14 oz bag will boost the beer 1% ABV.
Usage: Add during boil with rest of sugars and adjuncts."

I've used this on almost every brew.. beers always come out great. My last brew was a tripel IPA, and it had 2 lb Corn Sugar to add to boil.. i just did that one, hadn't tasted it yet. It was about 1.09 O.G.

I look to the respected brewers in this forum for guidance in ingredients. I don't believe I have ever read a post from someone whose talents I respect that said "That recipe needs more rice"

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

I look to the respected brewers in this forum for guidance in ingredients. I don't believe I have ever read a post from someone whose talents I respect that said "That recipe needs more rice"

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Because people here aren't making a ton of American light lagers. It has a place, but is a whole lot less common in home brewing. Just because people on here don't do it doesn't make it wrong. There's enough iffy advice on this board to know that this is not the end all be all of knowledge.

pompeiisneaks said:

IBU's may go down due to dilution, but not sure... or maybe sugars decrease hops utilization. Someone may have to chime in on that one... But as for adding sugar, its best to use something like turbinado sugar in the boil, from what I've read. I'm planning on giving it a try soon. It tends to lend the right kinds of flavors to the beer wort. The corn sugar works, but I don't know much about it. I've used for bottling and for apfelwine w/ great success, but... not w/ beer.

Anyone else w/ input?

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I like what you have said here. Just one thing, Turbinado? I wonder why that would be considered good... especially since it has a distinctive taste. Unless you are GOING for the taste of Turbinado sugar, I would definately NOT use that sugar as an ABV adjunct as it would impart flavours/colours that I may not want. Just my 2 cents though

mmb said:

They get their beer that light by amazing adherence to the process. Call the beer style what you will, AB has some phenomenally gifted brewers. If you want to debate that, look to Mitch Steele from Stone. His formative education in brewing is all from AB.

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I consider brewing the combination of art and science. While they definitely have some seriously gifted scientists, I haven't seen anything that would make me think they have gifted brewers. Of course, they are there (Mitch is an example), they just aren't the ones making the decisions. Of course, Bud is not high alcohol or made with sugar, so that is not relevant.

Back on topic, I think we've beat it to death when you would/would not add sugars to your beer. I think most of the brewers here are concerned that your thinking is that increased sugar=increased ABV=increase drunkenness. If that's true, just drink more of it. They call it a 'session beer' cuz you can drink it all night without falling off your stool (at least, not until the end of the night).

However, if you think your beer is too malty, needs a bit of that warming alcohol taste, or something else.. then I say add some sugar. If its the first problem (too malty), I would recommend lowering the extract and raising the sugar (in this case, no more than 1/2 pound) so that the the overall OG remains the same. If you want some more alcohol warming to it, just adding sugar might be the way to go (still not more than 1/2 pound).

Lastly, since you clearly want to try some big beers (who doesn't), I suggest looking into the big styles. Imperial IPA's, barleywines, Imperial stouts (russian and otherwise), scotch ale, etc.... You could even do a mock doppelbock (assuming you don't have the ability to do a lager) that would be delicious kicked up a bit.

remilard said:

Budweiser does not contain sugar, only whole grains.

Pliny the Elder and Rochefort do contain sugar so please direct your anger to those products.

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Yeah its Rice they use - Thins it out just as much