Cider Plan... Need Advice.

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EFaden

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Hey All,

Since I moved to upstate NY (a.k.a. apple country) I decided I wanted to do a cider this fall. I have talked to a local orchard and will be getting 6 gallons of unfiltered, but UV processed cider. My plan is to take 5 gallons of the cider and use brown sugar to get up to 1.060 if necessary. Then I am going to ferment with S-04 or Nottingham (thx to CvilleKevin). I'd like to wind up with a sweet cider. My question is what is the best way to get the sweetness right. I am going to keg the cider and force carb it. Should I cold crash? Potassium Sorbate?... etc. And what other things might I need to add (acid mix, etc)? Thanks.
 
I have had the most success with ciders using a dry wine yeast, like champagne or montrachet, killing off the yeast with the potassium sorbate and then back sweetening the cider in the keg before carbonating it. It also helps to add yeast nutrient to help them get going. To back sweeten I like to use the same cider that I fermented, adding it bit by bit to the fermented cider and tasting until I get the sweetness I am looking for. For example, I would buy 6 gallons of sweet (N.A.) cider, ferment 5 and back sweeten with the 6 (having froze it or refrigerated it during the ferment).
I am from Rochester originally, mind if I ask which orchard you decided to go to?
 
From personal experience I can tell you that you're almost certainly going to get full attenuation with those yeasts. So you'll either have to cold crash or backsweeten.

If you get fresh cider from ripe apples, your OG will probably only be a few points lower than 1.060. I wouldn't bother chaptalizing.

If you go to full attentuation, SO2 plus K-sorbate works great for backsweetening with sugar. I've done countless taste tests with friends, both experienced and not, and no one can tell the difference between ciders with SO2 and K-sorbate and those without.

I love the idea of sweetening with fresh cider that's been frozen, but keep in mind that it will need to clear again, if you want it clear.

As for all the other chemistry, I'd say forget about it. Do a batch and see from there what you want to change.
 
Papagayo said:
From personal experience I can tell you that you're almost certainly going to get full attenuation with those yeasts. So you'll either have to cold crash or backsweeten.

If you get fresh cider from ripe apples, your OG will probably only be a few points lower than 1.060. I wouldn't bother chaptalizing.

If you go to full attentuation, SO2 plus K-sorbate works great for backsweetening with sugar. I've done countless taste tests with friends, both experienced and not, and no one can tell the difference between ciders with SO2 and K-sorbate and those without.

I love the idea of sweetening with fresh cider that's been frozen, but keep in mind that it will need to clear again, if you want it clear.

As for all the other chemistry, I'd say forget about it. Do a batch and see from there what you want to change.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I don't entirely understand how cold-crashing works. You can't seem to guarantee that there will be no activity once it is crashed as the yeast won't crash 100%, unless I am missing something?
 
Basically if you get your cider cold enough, the yeast will go dormant and fermentation will cease. Below 35 degrees to be safe. The thing is, though, the second you bring the temperature back up, the yeast will get back to work. This kind of thing works well if you have a kegerator with some space. I prefer to let it ferment out and then backsweeten with SO2 and sorbate.
 
Papagayo said:
Basically if you get your cider cold enough, the yeast will go dormant and fermentation will cease. Below 35 degrees to be safe. The thing is, though, the second you bring the temperature back up, the yeast will get back to work. This kind of thing works well if you have a kegerator with some space. I prefer to let it ferment out and then backsweeten with SO2 and sorbate.
Click to expand...

Ok. SO2 is Campden tables? I think that seems like a better idea. I plan to keg it. Instead of backsweetening though couldn't I just SO2 and sorbate it when I was planning to cold crash?
 
If you cold crash, there's no need to use SO2 and sorbate. The temperature will hault the yeast. There's no need to backsweeten because you have residual sugar. You just need to keep it cold, or else the yeast will get back at it.

Campden tablets are SO2, but I prefer SO2 in powder form, which you can get at your local brew store, or online. The powder dissolves easier and you can measure it our more exactly. SO2 works well in combination with potassium sorbate to put the brakes on yeast so you can backsweeten. If you have the time and the quantity, try all the options and see what you like best.
 
some people report that they can stop active fermentation by adding so2 + sorbate, for others this won't stop a ferment, rather will only prevent new fermentation after clearing, racking and sweetening. i haven't experimented much with stopping fermentation but the ale yeast i normally use (s04) keeps right on going through the chemicals but stops pretty dead if i cold crash. so +1 to try all the options and see what you like best (it will be cold crashing!)
 
I've only tried to halt fermentation once and I think it worked. It was s04 in a cyser. Cold crashed for a week then racked off the yeast and added sorbate and sulphite. Then bought it back up to room temp to add fining agents.
 

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