Cloning HopHands by Tired Hands Brewing Company

dstar26t said:

It does, thanks. Are you using a CaCl2 solution or the straight LD Carlson prills?

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I bought a pound of the LD Carlson stuff almost 2 years ago and have barely made a dent in it.

mintyice said:

Not Ed, but I brew this enough I think I have it dialed it:

I target 120ppm sulfate. I have experimented with 300ppm (perception of drying bitterness went way up) and 200ppm, but 100-120ppm seems like the sweet spot. I target 100ppm Chloride. I use Bru'n water, so salts get added when adding the grains to the mash, and again when I batch sparge. I aim for 5.2-5.4 mash pH, usually planning for 5.3 so it can swing either way. I add lactic acid to both unheated mash and sparge water (typically around 2mL each).

Hope that helps.

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How about your other minerals? Ca, Mg, Na?
I will be kegging the batch in the fermenter this weekend. Sample is quite tasty and definitely cloudy.

This is what my water profile looked like for the current batch.
(Ca ppm) 114 (Mg ppm) 6 (Na ppm) 10 (Cl ppm) 89 (SO4 ppm) 180

Ben58 said:

How about your other minerals? Ca, Mg, Na?
I will be kegging the batch in the fermenter this weekend. Sample is quite tasty and definitely cloudy.

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115 Ca, 5 Mg, 10 Na, 120 Sulfate, 100 Chloride

Brett C/1318 version (Azacca, Mosaic, and Cascade) is very interesting. I got a lot of melon/berry from it when it was young. Very fruit salady. Now it has a ton of grapefruit/pine, along with a huge dank aroma . I think it attenuated a bit too much though because it's on the thinner side. Imagine if Hop Hands was made by a west coast brewery 5 years ago, if that makes any sense. Classic west coast pale characteristics, but with the oat character. Not cloned by any means, but a tasty variation.

I played around with Biofine clear this batch for kicks, hence the clarity.

All kegged up and on gas in the fridge. Now the wait.......

I brewed a beer inspired by this recipe and it is one of the best beers i have ever brewed. I'd like to try something like this with the added caramelly, raisiny body of a bigger beer with 1% roast malt for red color.

How high should i push that initial 16 IBU bittering charge to make it work with a 1.070 red IPA?

Carbed up and tasting mighty fine. Thanks to all who contributed.

Just dry hopped with 4oz each in primary after 7 days. Hopefully kegging Thursday and having it ready for CFB kickoff this Saturday.

Mintyice has covered most of these, and my process doesn't differ a ton but I wnated to reply anyway. I have been on here in a bit.

cuda6pak said:

Thanks for the "final" recipe Coff, I'm gonna brew this one again with the changes you noted.

Few clarifications - when you dry hop in the keg do you dry hop at room temp and then remove them? Or at keg temp and leave them in? Also, what carb level do you shoot for? I've heard of a lower carb helping in the creaminess of a beer like this. What psi & temp do you carb it at?

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I suspend a bag in a co2 purged keg and push beer via co2 in a semi closed system. I then dry hop at room temp for 4-5 days giving the keg a light shake daily to mimic the way pros can agitate the hops via co2 through the cone. Then I puch the beer from the dry hop keg into a serving keg via a jumper, all under c02 with absolutely zero o2 pick up. Cant stress that enough.

dstar26t said:

Ed, can you talk about your procedure for mineral additions? What form of Calcium Chloride you use and when do you add it and the Gypsum if you don't mind?

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mintyice said:

Not Ed, but I brew this enough I think I have it dialed it:

I target 120ppm sulfate. I have experimented with 300ppm (perception of drying bitterness went way up) and 200ppm, but 100-120ppm seems like the sweet spot. I target 100ppm Chloride. I use Bru'n water, so salts get added when adding the grains to the mash, and again when I batch sparge. I aim for 5.2-5.4 mash pH, usually planning for 5.3 so it can swing either way. I add lactic acid to both unheated mash and sparge water (typically around 2mL each).

Hope that helps.

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^^Similar to what I do but I add all of the salts to my milled grains and treat the strike water with lactic acid to adjust for mash pH of 5.3 Here is what Ive been shooting for, its fluctuated a little but only by a few ppm here and there.

130ppm Ca, 19ppm Mg, 7ppm Na, 140ppm Cl, 140ppm SO4

Just brewed this with wy1728. Fermenting away nicely at 16 celcius. Nice fruity aroma in the fermentation fridge.

finally tried the real thing... i've brewed this twice and while i haven't had the clone for a while...I think it was damn close. I gotta brew this again!

I just kicked a batch with 18% Naked Golden Oats, 1318 and Nelson Sauvin subbed for Centennial and it may have been the best beer I have ever brewed.

Coff said:

I suspend a bag in a co2 purged keg and push beer via co2 in a semi closed system. I then dry hop at room temp for 4-5 days giving the keg a light shake daily to mimic the way pros can agitate the hops via co2 through the cone. Then I puch the beer from the dry hop keg into a serving keg via a jumper, all under c02 with absolutely zero o2 pick up. Cant stress that enough.

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You could just carb through the bev out dip tube and every now and then give the pressure relief valve a pull to get a little gas flowing and agitate the dry hops.

Also, what's the benefit of moving the beer from a dry hop keg to a serving keg? I usually just pull the bag, seal the keg, and purge the headspace 5-8 times. I doubt there's much, if any, oxygen pickup that way.

Coff said:

I just kicked a batch with 18% Naked Golden Oats, 1318 and Nelson Sauvin subbed for Centennial and it may have been the best beer I have ever brewed.

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so in place of flaked oats. my last batch was 80% pale, 15% FO, 5% GNO...thinking of doing 80% pale, 10% FO, 10% GNO for the next batch.

Coff said:

I just kicked a batch with 18% Naked Golden Oats, 1318 and Nelson Sauvin subbed for Centennial and it may have been the best beer I have ever brewed.

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Marked for my next attempt

Coff said:

I just kicked a batch with 18% Naked Golden Oats, 1318 and Nelson Sauvin subbed for Centennial and it may have been the best beer I have ever brewed.

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How was the sweetness (and fg) with 18% GNO? I know surly is a fan of GNO (or believed to be) but I would have thought that high GNO would be quite sweet and not dry? Certainly sounds that was not at all the case

Do u guys have any trouble with the foam at that amount of flaked oats? I once did an oatmeal stout and the foam was realy bad (big bubbles and dropped down very quickly) because of the oil content of the oats. I could even see a kinda of oil slick after the mash was done.

kevink said:

You could just carb through the bev out dip tube and every now and then give the pressure relief valve a pull to get a little gas flowing and agitate the dry hops.

Also, what's the benefit of moving the beer from a dry hop keg to a serving keg? I usually just pull the bag, seal the keg, and purge the headspace 5-8 times. I doubt there's much, if any, oxygen pickup that way.

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Ive done that before but it involves an extra step for me, and its much easier to shake the keg.

The benefit is a guaranteed closed system, no o2 at all. Ive done what you do, pull the bag and purge, and its works fine but its just as easy to push it into a new keg and be sure its o2 free. At that point in the beers life Ive put a lot of work in and dont want to waste it bc I wanted to save a few mins.

This is my whole system.

http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2015/09/how-i-dry-hop-maximizing-aromas-on.html

atom said:

so in place of flaked oats. my last batch was 80% pale, 15% FO, 5% GNO...thinking of doing 80% pale, 10% FO, 10% GNO for the next batch.

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Yea in place of the Flaked Oats. Ive thought about the 80/10/10 ratio as well, will likely try it soon. Let us know if you do, could be perfect.

droder1 said:

How was the sweetness (and fg) with 18% GNO? I know surly is a fan of GNO (or believed to be) but I would have thought that high GNO would be quite sweet and not dry? Certainly sounds that was not at all the case

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Not too much sweetness, adds to the malt backbone as well. I think it finished at 1.012.

I think I also just finished up the best beer I ever brewed... Drinking one of my last bottles now. 82% CMC pale, 18% flaked oats. Same hopping regimen, just 2 parts Mosaic 1 part Cascade. Split 6oz dry hop Azacca and Mosaic. Fermented with mixed culture of 1318/brett C. Huge tropical peach/pineapple/pine aroma and flavor with a fruit salad/canataloupe/honeydew finish from Brett C. Mashed a bit higher this time to retain some of that body 1318 lends since Brett C tends to dry things out a little too much, but it's still pretty dry surprisingly. That Azacca/Mosaic dry hop combo is amazing.

i'll be brewing a batch this weekend... gonna try azacca/citra/centennial as the hop combo. 10 gallon split batch 1318/conan

Going to be brewing this soon using The Yeast Bay's Funktown blend! Looks like a great recipe! What utilization are you guys using to calculate your FWH and whirlpool hops?

atom said:

i'll be brewing a batch this weekend... gonna try azacca/citra/centennial as the hop combo. 10 gallon split batch 1318/conan

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brewed this today. 10.5 gallons of 1.050 wort into the fermenters. used hop extract to bitter as well.

basisforaday said:

Going to be brewing this soon using The Yeast Bay's Funktown blend! Looks like a great recipe! What utilization are you guys using to calculate your FWH and whirlpool hops?

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I assume 10% utilization in the whirlpool, and whatever Beersmith gives me for FWH. I read the 10% thing somewhere a while back but cant recall where.

I brewed this on Saturday.

78.5% Pilsner
13% Golden Naked Oats
6% Flaked Oats
2.5% Acidulated
90 Min Boil OG 1.063

FWH .5 Oz Galaxy
5 min .75 Oz of Galaxy, Nelson Sauvin and Mandarina Bavaria
@185F 20 Min Hopstand of Galaxy, Nelson Sauvin and Mandarina Bavaria

Going to dry hop with the same 3 hops, 2 oz each.

Made a 1.8 L starter of the Yeast Bay's Funktown Blend.

Right now at day 1.5 after pitching the yeast has been doing its thing for a 24+ hours. Not really sure when fermentation actually took off, I'm guessing around hour 12, but it is on a roll now. Fermenting at 68 and going to ramp up to about 72 when all is said and done. It smells so tropical in my fermentation chamber right now. Also trying out a water profile that uses your 1:1 Chloride to Sulfate ratio as well as about 135 PPM Calcium. Hoping for that nice juicy flavor with a nice pillowy head. Thanks for the recipe!

Drinking a 18% GNO variant with all Equinox now. I'm a fan of GNO. Nice malt depth to them, but it still needs some oats/wheat for a little more creaminess.

Also, the whole green pepper thing with Equinox is totally true. It's like drinking a citrusy vegetable, not in a bad way though, just different.

I liked my 18% GNO batch a hell of a lot, maybe slightly less creamy in the body but you sacrifice that for some added malt depth. Its different from the all Oats batches and I think puts to rest some of the assumptions by folks that Tired Hands uses GNO for HopHands, I wasnt one of those people but just sayin.

I will likely never try Equinox due to the green pepper thing. Doesnt sound like what I am looking for.

I might try a 9% GNO and 9% oats or wheat next batch to try to get the malt depth along with the creaminess. Thinking of using a blend of Mosaic, Azacca and Centennial.

Who wants to start working on a Pineal or Alien Church recipe?

Ive never had Alien Church so I wouldnt know where to begin. I dont get up there as often as I used to.

It's been a while since I've had it, but it was the best beer they were pouring the two times I had it.

Alien Church:
Oat IPA. 7.0% Brewed with oats. Hopped with Mosaic, Citra, Chinook, Centennial and Columbus. Bow down before the ALien Church!
-Notes of blueberries, fresh orange slices, dank, deep pine, honeydew melons.

Can you folks tell me what amounts of salts to an 5 gal RO-water batch, to hit this kind of pillowey / New England IPA quality? (I don't know how to calculate from the ppm amounts that have shown up in this thread . . . I don't have brewing software, and am simply going the Gordon Strong route of starting with RO water and adding grams of salts to the mash and sparge)

Thanks--Ted

Ted123 said:

Can you folks tell me what amounts of salts to an 5 gal RO-water batch, to hit this kind of pillowey / New England IPA quality? (I don't know how to calculate from the ppm amounts that have shown up in this thread . . . I don't have brewing software, and am simply going the Gordon Strong route of starting with RO water and adding grams of salts to the mash and sparge)

Thanks--Ted

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Try EZ Water Calc, its free and super easy to use. You might want to read the documentation on Brun Water to so you understand more of what youre doing with water.

http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

A lot of us have been working with a 1:1 up to 2:1 Chloride:Sulfate ratio to get the creamy texture.

Brewed another variation on this beer again last night. Marris Otter, %18 Bob's Mill extra Thick Oats, single hopped with HBC 438 and fermented with London Ale 3. Went with a 2:1 Chloride: Sulfate ratio.

The wort was super creamy, kind of nuts. Im pumped for this one, HBC 438 is the next big thing.

I was planning on brewing this tomorrow because I have the day off. This might sound like a silly question but are y'all using rice hulls to aid with the sparge? I don't think anyone has mentioned using them.

I'll probably use Amarillo, Citra, and Cascade and maybe some Azzaca because that's what I have on hand.

I threw a handful or two in just to be safe. It went well. Cheers.

I've definitely used some in the past but I haven't needed them since I switched to BIABIAC

I think I nailed a TH style IPA. I made dank hop juice and it's great. Super resinous and oily with a huge tropical/citrus flavor profile. Imagine hop hands but danker. Columbus is seriously an underrated hop. It's like smelling bag of raw mosaic/columbus pellets. Dank. Juicy. Creamy. It tastes exactly like something TH would make. And it's murky as the day is long. Thanks wheat flour!

6gal, 1.062 OG

5.5 lbs CMC pale
5.5 lbs CMC pils
1.5 lbs Flaked Oats
1.5 lbs Briess White Wheat
0.5 lbs Whole wheat flour

Mash 152F 60 min

0.25oz 13.2%AA Columbus 60 min
1oz Azacca 10.3%AA 5 min
1oz Mosaic 12.3%AA 5 min
0.5oz Centennial 11.3%AA 5 min
0.5oz Columbus 13.2%AA 5 min
1oz Azacca 10.3%AA 20min whirlpool @ 185F
1oz Mosaic 12.3%AA 20min whirlpool @ 185F
0.5oz Centennial 11.3%AA 20min whirlpool @ 185F
0.5oz Columbus 13.2%AA 20min whirlpool @ 185F
4oz Azacca 3 day dry hop
2oz Columbus 3 day dry hop

1L starter of 1318.

120ppm Sulfate, 100ppm Chloride

That sounds great! Looks right too

Looks awesome!

That looks awesome. I just picked up some cans of Punge from the Fermenteria and it looks pretty similar (though hard to tell from just a picture).

This is probably answered somewhere in the thread, but it's gotten really long... Do you guys force chill after flameout to get it to the whirlpool temp? Or do you just let the temp fall on it's own until it reaches 185 and then add the rest of the hops? Thanks