Concrete Brew Stand

So my buddy and I were sitting around trying to think of a fun way to do a brew stand. Here are some mock-ups of what we came up with. (My buddy is a drafter). I am looking to start construction after the new year and have it finished by the end of February. I will update with many pictures as we progress.

The top is concrete and the rest of the stand is obviously wood. I love the look of some of the "higher-end" wooden brew stands I have seen on here, but didn't want to just simply place burner stands on top of wood. And yes, even though the chances are slim to none, I don't want to start any fires in my new house.

I am choosing to install three burners, just in case. I know it is unnecessary with my setup, but it would be difficult to undo concrete and I thought, "What the hell?". I have three bayou 15.5 gallon pots, one hot liquor tank, one mash tun, and one brew kettle. I would purchase three pumps and install them on the front of the stand. Propane tank would hang off the right side.

The concrete will be stablized with chicken wire and/or rebar. We will mold the concrete top first and then build the rest of the stand based on that. The legs are 4x4s, support is 2x4s. The pictures don't show it, but we'll bolt the 2x4s to the 4x4 obviously. I plan on staining the wood an espresso color and the concrete either black or a copper color - haven't decided yet. The stand will be 6ft wide, 2.5ft deep, and 3ft high. The holes for the burners will be 12in.

I didn't get a basement when we purchased our house last month, so my garage is going to be the Mancave. It will include a brew stand, work bench, bar, kegorator, and commercial mop sink (I have a hook up in there, thought it would be handy for brewing).

So that's pretty much that. Judgement, questions, criticism, laughter, or advice is welcomed

Disclaimer: I am somewhat of a newb at this. Only been brewing for 1.5 years and the majority of that was extract. And, I have not been able to brew in about 4 months because we just moved So any advice is appreciated.

Continued:

I think weight would be a factor here...are you making a stand that is too heavy? It being extremely top heavy would also be a risk.

I think it would be awesome. I love concrete tops, they can be tinted, finished and are pretty indestructible as well as heat resistant.

The only thing I would add to it is heavy duty casters with brakes. That sucker will be heavy and it you need to move it the casters work great

I like the look, I just hope you never have to move it.

broadbill said:

I think weight would be a factor here...are you making a stand that is too heavy? It being extremely top heavy would also be a risk.

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I'm pretty confident the 4x4s would hold it fine, even with full kettles.

duboman said:

The only thing I would add to it is heavy duty casters with brakes. That sucker will be heavy and it you need to move it the casters work great

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I forgot to mention that. Definitely getting some.

tservice said:

I like the look, I just hope you never have to move it.

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I just purchased my first house and don't plan to move for 10+ years.

I think you will have issues with the concrete spalling due to the heat. I don't think it will be top heavy as I would have to believe that the height is going to be fairly low but based on the picture I would bet that top will weigh over 400lbs. I built a bar with a concrete top that wasn't nearly as thick as that and it weighed in at over 350lbs.

The heat from those burners will do quite a number on a concrete top. You can look at a slab of a house after a fire and the top of the slab flakes off. This setup would work AWESOME for a bottom-drained electric brewery, but I see problems using gas burners.

sigmund said:

I think you will have issues with the concrete spalling due to the heat. I don't think it will be top heavy as I would have to believe that the height is going to be fairly low but based on the picture I would bet that top will weigh over 400lbs. I built a bar with a concrete top that wasn't nearly as thick as that and it weighed in at over 350lbs.

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Actually we are thinking the top will be 270lbs. The software we used (Solidworks) can calculate the weight based on the density of the concrete. Which according google is 1700 kg/m^3. We then converted that to lbs/in^3 and let the software do the rest.

Volume is 4422.48 cubic inches
Weight is 271.54 lbs

I'm not too concerned with spalling because the heat will not be directly firing on the concrete and will only be used for 90mins at a time. However, if I notice any flaking or other issues, we can always add risers on the pots or shield the concrete where the flame is closest.

Structurally, I would suggest adding a 2x4 on edge laterally between each hole (so, 2 total) to support the concrete. The thin area between the holes would be most prone to cracking, and that's quite an unsupported span.

justabrewin said:

I'm pretty confident the 4x4s would hold it fine, even with full kettles.

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That's not what I'm referring to...but whatever.

Are you going to put wheels on this thing? I wouldn't....it will be a PITA to wheel around, and if one of those wheels catches on a rock or something while it is moving--that is 300-400lbs of top-heavy table coming down on its side. Goodbye anything underneath it (like your toes).

...and I'm not sure why you'd build a stand that you can't move around....

BadNewsBrewery said:

Structurally, I would suggest adding a 2x4 on edge laterally between each hole (so, 2 total) to support the concrete. The thin area between the holes would be most prone to cracking, and that's quite an unsupported span.

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Agreed. Thanks for the advice

broadbill said:

Are you going to put wheels on this thing? I wouldn't....it will be a PITA to wheel around, and if one of those wheels catches on a rock or something while it is moving--that is 300-400lbs of top-heavy table coming down on its side. Goodbye anything underneath it (like your toes).

...and I'm not sure why you'd build a stand that you can't move around....

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I don't plan on moving it around much at all, but I want to have the ability to anyways.

I don't think given the low center of gravity that it give too many issues. I have a 250+ lb bar with casters and it moves just fine.

Not getting defensive, just thinking out loud here. Thanks for the input.

justabrewin said:

Actually we are thinking the top will be 270lbs. The software we used (Solidworks) can calculate the weight based on the density of the concrete. Which according google is 1700 kg/m^3. We then converted that to lbs/in^3 and let the software do the rest.

Volume is 4422.48 cubic inches
Weight is 271.54 lbs

I'm not too concerned with spalling because the heat will not be directly firing on the concrete and will only be used for 90mins at a time. However, if I notice any flaking or other issues, we can always add risers on the pots or shield the concrete where the flame is closest.

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Did you take into account the rebar? That's going to add some weight.

This design doesn't look very structurally sound to me. That concrete is going to sag like a mofo.

LandoLincoln said:

Did you take into account the rebar? That's going to add some weight.

This design doesn't look very structurally sound to me. That concrete is going to sag like a mofo.

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Hmmm... I think we may add two 2x4s in between the burner holes.

And maybe move the burners up a little and add some risers for the pots.

I'd be worried about the expansion of the concrete. When it gets hot concrete expands which puts pressure on the areas that are cool, when it expands to the point the cool area can't take the pressure anymore the concrete explodes. I've seen this happen twice and it is pretty dangerous.

FYI - I posted this at this point because I wanted to really think this through before I moved forward. I appreciate the feedback and everyone's advice.

So this may just be me trying to simply things, but think about kitchen islands. Many of them have concrete counter tops and casters. Most of them have granite tops which weighs more than concrete. If I reinforce the concrete a little and address the potential, yet unlikely, spalling issues, I think this could work.

Is there anyone out there that thinks this could work?

Monster Mash said:

I'd be worried about the expansion of the concrete. When it gets hot concrete expands which puts pressure on the areas that are cool, when it expands to the point the cool area can't take the pressure anymore the concrete explodes. I've seen this happen twice and it is pretty dangerous.

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From your experience, how long was the concrete exposed to the flame? The flame will not be directly burning on the concrete and if we moved the burner up and added risers, that should help, right?

justabrewin said:

Agreed. Thanks for the advice




I don't plan on moving it around much at all, but I want to have the ability to anyways.

I don't think given the low center of gravity that it give too many issues. I have a 250+ lb bar with casters and it moves just fine.

Not getting defensive, just thinking out loud here. Thanks for the input.

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I'm not trying to be super nit-picky....it was just from the pictures and the scale that this doesn't have that low of a center-of-gravity which would cause all of the problems I've been pointing out.

I'll shut up now, with the recommendation and the lower (and wider) you can get that slab to the floor, the safer it will be.

Oh, I think it could work. I built a concrete BBQ island with a friend, with the grill mounted directly in the concrete. It gets hot, and by now there may be a crack or two, but he hasn't had concrete spawling issues or explosions or anything like that.

I don't think heat, from the burners will be an issue. I've easily placed my hand directly under a burner, going full blast, before without any issue. At most, it was warm. Below the hot water temp from your faucet.

I would make sure you seal it against water though. Maybe go with 2-3" thickness, not 4". It will be easier to move around with the reduced weight.

The density of concrete I use in SolidWorks is 150#/ft^3
At that density, i come up with 383 pounds based on your volume you posted on page 1 of this thread.

Absolutely this could work. If you use a standard mix however, I don't necessarily agree spalling is unlikely. There are however plenty of high temp mixes and additives out there.

I would love to see how this turns out!

If there is flame on the concrete spalling is most certainly an issue. However, I think the OP is considering raising the burners above the concrete surface. I guess that would also involve raising the kettles off the concrete as well.

Huaco said:

If there is flame on the concrete spalling is most certainly an issue. However, I think the OP is considering raising the burners above the concrete surface. I guess that would also involve raising the kettles off the concrete as well.

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It seemed to me the burners would rest over the openings. Sort of like having a table (with holes below the burners) for everything to sit on that won't be effected by the brewing process. IME, good burners (Blichmann for one) are designed to NOT have much heat drop below them. I've had hot water from the faucet be hotter than the air under the burners (including a KAB4)...

Golddiggie said:

It seemed to me the burners would rest over the openings. Sort of like having a table (with holes below the burners) for everything to sit on that won't be effected by the brewing process. IME, good burners (Blichmann for one) are designed to NOT have much heat drop below them. I've had hot water from the faucet be hotter than the air under the burners (including a KAB4)...

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I agree.
I had pictured the burners below the concrete top and the vessels sitting directly on the concrete with the flame coming up through the hole to the kettle base. If this happens, the heat will be trapped and will build up to TREMENDOUS temps and will spall the concrete.
Maybe the OP could cast in some stainless structures that he could mount the burners to and would also carry the weight of the vessels. THAT would look sharp against a black pigmented concrete top! Granted, this would take some careful design work to make the structure fully support everything while being cast into the top.

Wouldn't he need to build the sleeves as a two layer item? That way the concrete is not in direct contact with the hot metal...

Make sure and put rebar in the concrete. 3/8" would be enough. Tie it in together and run it end to end, front to back in a grid.
If you do have an issue, heat related or otherwise, and the thing cracks, you do not want a chunk of it busting free and landing on your foot or anything for that matter.
Especially if it's got a kettle of boiling liquid in it.

I can't say anything bad about the concrete concept. I want to build an all concrete shooting bench out by my brothers where we can shoot long distances.

As far as reinforcement... I would run SEVERAL rebars through the mid-thickness and make a # (tick-tack-toe) around each of the openings. If you really want to strengthen it up, run double layer of rebar and hold each of them about 3/4" clear of top and bottom surface. Hold the ends about an inch off as well as the sides. This is how we would reenforce structural/architectural concrete panels.
Also, if you want to get nit-picky about the weight, you could plan that rebar weighs about 3 times that of concrete. So figure up your volume the rebar is displacing and subtract 2/3 the weight of the rebar from the figure. My engineers just told us to not worry about the weight of the rebar though.

AND DON'T REENFORCE THIS WITH CHICKEN WIRE!!!!!! At least use welded wire fabric. (that nasty looking rusty stuff they lay down on driveways)

^^^^^ I guess I was typing while 45_70 posted.

Huaco said:

^^^^^ I guess I was typing while 45_70 posted.

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It looks like we've both been around a little concrete construction maybe.

Huaco said:

I agree.
I had pictured the burners below the concrete top and the vessels sitting directly on the concrete with the flame coming up through the hole to the kettle base. If this happens, the heat will be trapped and will build up to TREMENDOUS temps and will spall the concrete.
Maybe the OP could cast in some stainless structures that he could mount the burners to and would also carry the weight of the vessels. THAT would look sharp against a black pigmented concrete top! Granted, this would take some careful design work to make the structure fully support everything while being cast into the top.

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Sorry, I'm just now getting back to the discussion. Meetings all day...

I think you are right. I originally thought about placing the vessels directly on the concrete, but after all of this discussion, I will avoid that.

Does anyone recommend any burners that I could have the vessels sit directly on top without it coming too far off the table? I'm thinking I would mount them directly on the concrete and provide some type of shielding to protect the concrete from the heat.

45_70sharps said:

Make sure and put rebar in the concrete. 3/8" would be enough. Tie it in together and run it end to end, front to back in a grid.
If you do have an issue, heat related or otherwise, and the thing cracks, you do not want a chunk of it busting free and landing on your foot or anything for that matter.
Especially if it's got a kettle of boiling liquid in it.

I can't say anything bad about the concrete concept. I want to build an all concrete shooting bench out by my brothers where we can shoot long distances.

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Ha! Don't want that happening. I was planning on using rebar, but now I am concerned about the weight...I think I'll use welded wire fabric like Huaco recommended. AND the rebar.

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming

Check out the Blichmann burners... You could try having the burner section lower than the rest of the top level. Maybe half the concrete thickness, and have enough space around them to keep excess heat away from the concrete.

Welded wire is far better than nothing, I would use 3/8" bar myself.
I do tend to build things with a wide safety margin though.