Open Fermentation Question

I am new to all of this. So far I have started a couple of simple ciders, but that's it.

I am thinking about starting some mead and some fruit wine (both in 1-gallon batches) over the Christmas holiday. For the primary fermentation, can I use a stainless steel cooking pot with lid? Or do I need to use a primary fermenter with a tight lid and fermentation lock? My idea would be to use the pot for a week or so until the major bubbling ceases, then rack off into glass gallon jugs.

If I can use the SS pot and lid as a primary, how much is too much air space above the wort? I.e., for a 1-gallon batch, would a 2- or 3-gallon pot be too big?

Would it be OK to pour/decant out of the pot, or should I syphon?

Thanks,
Dave

Christmas is just over 2 weeks away. All of my wine takes at least 3 months to start to taste decent. You can try but I don't think that's near enough time.

smyrnaquince said:

My idea would be to use the pot for a week or so until the major bubbling ceases, then rack off into glass gallon jugs.

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I have always used the same principal as to allow off gases to escape and to ease the process of stirring during active fermentation (fast bubbling). I couldn't imagine doing it any other way.

warispeace said:

Christmas is just over 2 weeks away. All of my wine takes at least 3 months to start to taste decent. You can try but I don't think that's near enough time.

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No, I want to *start* the batches while I have time over Christmas. Not have them ready for Christmas. I am just inquiring about using a SS pot with lid for the primary fermentation.

Dave

Primary can be anything big enough to hold the liquid plus a couple of inches for any foam.

I just set the lids on mine during primary.

You do want to syphon, pouring is a risky proposition! Don't ask me how I know (grape colored flooring)!!!

Mead takes longer than wine so you may need to leave it in Primary longer

mmadmikes1 said:

Mead takes longer than wine so you may need to leave it in Primary longer

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I've had meads ferment to completion in less than three weeks with proper aeration and nutrient additions...

smyrnaquince said:

No, I want to *start* the batches while I have time over Christmas. Not have them ready for Christmas. I am just inquiring about using a SS pot with lid for the primary fermentation.

Dave

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Gotcha, that sounds much better. I've never used a cooking pot, obviously an airtight container would be preferable. It would be a risk, because if any fruit flies or insects got in the brew it could ruin the batch. Does the lid have any holes in it?

Syphoning is easier than pouring but they both will work. Just make sure that anything the wine touches is sanitized.

warispeace said:

Gotcha, that sounds much better. I've never used a cooking pot, obviously an airtight container would be preferable. It would be a risk, because if any fruit flies or insects got in the brew it could ruin the batch. Does the lid have any holes in it?

Syphoning is easier than pouring but they both will work. Just make sure that anything the wine touches is sanitized.

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It is a normal pot lid without holes or gaps, but it is not air-tight. My impression was that I did not want an air-tight container for primary fermentation. I've often seen instructions about covering the fermentation bucket with muslin or the carboy opening with cotton balls. (I'm making wine, not beer, if that matters.)

For a 1-gallon pot, I actually thought that pouring through a funnel into a jug would be easier than siphoning. I think I'd have to get some help, though, to hold the funnel and jug at an angle so the liquid runs down the side instead of splashing in and incorporating a lot of oxygen.

smyrnaquince said:

It is a normal pot lid without holes or gaps, but it is not air-tight. My impression was that I did not want an air-tight container for primary fermentation. I've often seen instructions about covering the fermentation bucket with muslin or the carboy opening with cotton balls. (I'm making wine, not beer, if that matters.)

For a 1-gallon pot, I actually thought that pouring through a funnel into a jug would be easier than siphoning. I think I'd have to get some help, though, to hold the funnel and jug at an angle so the liquid runs down the side instead of splashing in and incorporating a lot of oxygen.

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I think you'll be OK. Avoid the temptation to keep checking it, and try to leave the lid on the whole time. Maybe leave a towel over the top.

I think the air issue was solved in the science thread by JohnMc
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/aerobic-fermentation-210370/#post2465249

open fermentation is pretty typical for wine, esp grape wines - but typically some control methods for airborne pests needs to be done as well, muslin or what have you. if you have a gravityfitting lid, that's fine too - i use a 10gal food-grade rubbermaid Brute® trash barrel for primary fementation - the lid is opened frequently if i am making red wine as the cap of skins requires regular punchdowns as part of the correct process.. having made both beer and wine a few things of note...

winemaking and beermaking only slightly relate to each other in process and technique - they are both fermentations, that's about where the similarities stop IMHO.

winemaking yeast has different requirements than ale yeast. it is more alcohol and acidity tolerant, many strains are superyeasts which will outcompete wild yeasts. Infection is less of a concern in winemaking than beermaking in my experience - open fermentation, dirty fruit, contaminants, etc.. wine seems to hold up better to these challenges - partly a Ph/Acidity thing, partly a yeast thing.

Wine yeasts tend not to impart the same level of taste and aroma qualities as ale yeasts do - many winemakers can make great wines with a single yeast strain for all their wine types... fermentation temp is also not so much an issue with wine - generally the temp is in the 70*-80* range except in certain circumstances where a colder ferment is being used as a special technique for a particular varietal or style. Temp plays a bit lesser role on the outcome as well - whereas temp of ferment in ale can have more dramatic effects.

I cannot speak to the techniques of other fruit wines other than wine grapes, but where beer typically requires airtight fermentation vessels, the same is almost never true for primary fermentation of grape wines... it'll often do fine in airtight, but also just having a lid to keep critters out is enough until the gravity gets to 1.010 or so and then airlock.

I use a paper towel secured with a rubber band. I'm high tech.