Big dead wasp floating in my boiling wort!!!

More protein I guess! Only issue I have is that I am alergic to wasps. Will this effect me in any way? I have no idea how long its been in there. I am at 45 mins of my 90 min boil.

I will have to come up with a clever name incorperating (sp) the lil stinging fella. It is an Amarillo SMaSH

10 lbs of 2 row

7 oz Amarillo

US-05 yeast.

Wasps up IPA

JOHN51277 said:

I will have to come up with a clever name incorperating (sp) the lil stinging fella. It is an Amarillo SMaSH

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Epi-rillo?

I found a wasp floating in one of my fermented beers one time, it was caked in hop sludge lol...it was kind of gross actually. I have no idea when or how it got there, but the beer was fine. Either of the two above names sounds good if you ask me haha.

TheMan said:

I have no idea when or how it got there, but the beer was fine.

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Yes... but are YOU allergic to wasps? I'm not, so I wouldn't have any issues with it, but if I was seriously allergic to wasps, I'd be doing some research to see if drinking that would put me at any risk.

worst case, I die!!!!!

How about Anaphylactic IPA

I love it... If you boil it down another 45 minutes or so even if the wasp tried to sting himself before he died I'm sure the boil has killed the toxin. I would do some research but I'm guessing you'll be fine.

Wasp venom is in very small doses because it's so powerful. Looks like in wort it would be diluted and boiled out. Should be okay.

brewagentjay said:

I love it... If you boil it down another 45 minutes or so even if the wasp tried to sting himself before he died I'm sure the boil has killed the toxin. I would do some research but I'm guessing you'll be fine.

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Do you have a reference that indicates that boiling destroys the toxin?

well i would buy an epi-pen and keep it handy on serve day.

JOHN51277 said:

worst case, I die!!!!!

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Well lets not be debbie downer here...

lol

I'd agree with others, do a little research, I honestly don't think it would hurt you. I am no expert though.

:rockin:

Walker said:

Do you have a reference that indicates that boiling destroys the toxin?

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If you look up home remedies for wasp stings you'll see extremely hot tea bags, & other extremely hot rags are used.

So I'm assuming extremely hot hops (boiling way more hot than skin can handle will do same thing).

Also if this 5 gallong batch the amount of venom which is 3 times smaller than normal bees will be so diluted that no way it should affect anyone. Then you boil it out on top of that because it's as light as water.

If it's a 10 gallon batch then you get the picture.

It's the live ones that you have to worry about.

I just googled destroying toxins by boiling...boiling kills salmanella and botulism toxin. So why would it not kill wasp toxin.

"Bee venom is easily destroyed by oxidizing substances: potassium permanganate, potassium sulphate; halogen elements-chlorine and bromine-destroy it very quickly; the effect of iodine is much slower. Alcohol possesses a strong and quick destructive effect on the venom. In contact with tincture of iodine, the alcohol is more destructive than the dissolved iodine" - Found this on net should make sure no issues.

TheMan said:

I just googled destroying toxins by boiling...boiling kills salmanella and botulism toxin. So why would it not kill wasp toxin.

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Those are types of bacteria. The stuff in wasps is a venom.

brewagentjay said:

"Bee venom is easily destroyed by oxidizing substances: potassium permanganate, potassium sulphate; halogen elements-chlorine and bromine-destroy it very quickly; the effect of iodine is much slower. Alcohol possesses a strong and quick destructive effect on the venom. In contact with tincture of iodine, the alcohol is more destructive than the dissolved iodine" - Found this on net should make sure no issues.

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Yes, but that's bee venom. Found this bit on Wikipedia:

...those allergic to wasp venom are not necessarily allergic to bee venom as they contain different chemicals.

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Seems that if they're different enough for that, they're different enough to have different resistances.

I wouldn't gamble when it comes to allergic reactions, personally.

brewagentjay said:

:rockin:

If you look up home remedies for wasp stings you'll see extremely hot tea bags, & other extremely hot rags are used.

So I'm assuming extremely hot hops (boiling way more hot than skin can handle will do same thing).

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I think the idea there is that a hot compress will draw the toxin up out of the skin, not destroy the toxin itself.

I agree, though.... one wasp in 10 gallons is next to nothing, but some folks are CRAZY allergic.

TheMan said:

I just googled destroying toxins by boiling...boiling kills salmanella and botulism toxin. So why would it not kill wasp toxin.

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Not all toxins are the same, so I just wouldn't make an assumption.

Boiling kills most little buggers, but not all. That botulism is a good example. Heat destroys the toxin, but the spores that create the toxin are unharmed by boiling and will continue to make more toxins.

Sorry if I seem like a stick in the mud. Health matters can be serious things, so I don't offer any advice or opinions unless I am 100% certain of things. I'd hate for JOHN to have a reaction to the toxin after I told him it would be ok with out really KNOWING it would be OK.

brewagentjay said:

Alcohol possesses a strong and quick destructive effect on the venom.

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Awesome! Perfect!

I had one in the Bourbon Vanilla Porter I made. No one got ill or died, except the wasp. I actually think it added some flavor

Wasn't it Jamil who wrote about several batches of the same beer getting a black widow in it every time he brewed it?

I agree this guy needs to be careful. I'm just finding it hard to believe that a wasp in 10 gallons of wort boiling is gonna cause an issue. I'm not finding anything on destroying wasp venom I do know that they can sting more than once and so do inject less venom than bees but since they can sting more I bet inside the body that they carry more venom than a bee.

I'll keep digging

Walker said:

Awesome! Perfect!

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It's close but I got it off bee site so I would like to find something similar on wasp venom.

I may have found something... google showed me ehough text to make me think boiling does the trick, but I can't get the full article to load....

I've found a few sites that say you shouldn't drink alcohol after being stung by a wasp, but nothing that says why except a Yahoo Answers post. I'm not really going with that site as an authority.

That may have nothing to do with this, though.

Walker said:

I may have found something... google showed me ehough text to make me think boiling does the trick, but I can't get the full article to load....

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damn... it was about hornets.

alright... I'm done here. I'm just going to sit down and be glad I'm not allergic to the bastards.

Walker said:

damn... it was about hornets.

alright... I'm done here. I'm just going to sit down and be glad I'm not allergic to the bastards.

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Hornets are wasps.

The OP should probably consult an allergist if he's really concerned. A severe systemic allergic reaction isn't something to be messed with. My wife is allergic to tree nuts and my daughter peanuts. It doesn't take much to wind up in the emergency room. And it wouldn't matter how much you cooked or boiled the nuts.

Do you know anybody else allergic to wasp stings?

Maybe someone could guinea the fist bottle.

A mother-in-law perhaps? Or a boss?

i'd call poison control.

lackey2000 said:

Do you know anybody else allergic to wasp stings?

Maybe someone could guinea the fist bottle.

A mother-in-law perhaps? Or a boss?

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I like the way you think. I seriously doubt it will have any ill effects on me. I will try a half pint first, then a 6 pack if the half pint dont drop me.

I have decided to call it the Amarillo Hopped Hornet IPA!!

JOHN51277 said:

I like the way you think. I seriously doubt it will have any ill effects on me. I will try a half pint first, then a 6 pack if the half pint dont drop me.

I have decided to call it the Amarillo Hopped Hornet IPA!!

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I'm not a doctor (paramedic by trade, but even retired from that now) so my advice is useless. But........I'll give my input anyway. That's what we women do. Anyway- you're allergic to bee stings and of course that's serious. But if it didn't sting you, I don't know how the venom could be released. I wouldn't suggest eating him, but I don't think you were planning to anyway!

This is what I have so far!!!

JOHN51277 said:

I like the way you think. I seriously doubt it will have any ill effects on me. I will try a half pint first, then a 6 pack if the half pint dont drop me.

I have decided to call it the Amarillo Hopped Hornet IPA!!

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I'm thinking a diluted oral dose will have a dramatically different result than the direct sub-cutaneous application we all know and love so much. Just to be on the safe side, though, you should swear loudly and dance around vowing revenge when you drink it. The ritual has some protective effects.

Fingers said:

I'm thinking a diluted oral dose will have a dramatically different result than the direct sub-cutaneous application we all know and love so much. Just to be on the safe side, though, you should swear loudly and dance around vowing revenge when you drink it. The ritual has some protective effects.

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Thanks for the advice!

I would say you have just come up with a new twist on honey malt.

YooperBrew said:

I'm not a doctor (paramedic by trade, but even retired from that now) so my advice is useless. But........I'll give my input anyway. That's what we women do. Anyway- you're allergic to bee stings and of course that's serious. But if it didn't sting you, I don't know how the venom could be released. I wouldn't suggest eating him, but I don't think you were planning to anyway!

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Yoop,

Do you think it feasible that the heat of boiling wort would be enough (and for long enough duration) to "loosen" whatever membrane or sac that contains the venom? Enough even that it would destroy it, or heat the venom itself enough to burst its enclosure? That would be my concern; getting the whole dose in the batch if in fact it's not de-toxed by boiling/alcohol.

pernox said:

Yoop,

Do you think it feasible that the heat of boiling wort would be enough (and for long enough duration) to "loosen" whatever membrane or sac that contains the venom? Enough even that it would destroy it, or heat the venom itself enough to burst its enclosure? That would be my concern; getting the whole dose in the batch if in fact it's not de-toxed by boiling/alcohol.

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I have no idea!

Venom is just a series of complex proteins. The heat from the boiling wort would certainly denature the proteins making them inactive. If nothing else, as posted above, the alcohol would do the same.

I'm with fingers on this one. People have been drinking snake venom for years and they dont die or get sick unless they have ulcers. The stomach contains acids that eat almost anything.