troubles with coffee stout

Hey folks, new to the forums here. Hope you're all well as winter comes full on, especially those getting the "full experience" of it (I'm in Wisconsin.)

Anyhow, I'm struggling with a coffee stout. I saw practically no activity for a couple weeks, although for some reason I decided to transfer it to secondary anyhow, lots of stuff that looked like dead yeast at the bottom. I'm thinking either the wort was too hot when I pitched, which is highly likely, or the ambient temperature was too low for fermentation, both are likely really. But, I repitched with champagne yeast (it was all I had on hand) and am only just seeing krausen begin to form, after 24 hours.

The way I made this coffee stout was by adding a couple gallons of brewed, chilled coffee (STRONG, dark coffee at that) to the primary to help cool the wort, and obviously impart the coffee flavor. Now, my main question is, could the acidity of the coffee have killed the yeast? And is it continuing to make fermentation very difficult? Has anyone here brewed a coffee stout in this manner?

Thanks for your time.

I just made a coffee stout, it is still fermenting but I plan to add coffee during the conditioning phase. The reason I went with this method was because I have read that you can get a stronger flavor and aroma since you add the coffee after primary fermentation has taken place.
As for your beer, I don't think the coffee killed the yeast but I was wondering how big your batch is because you said "I made this coffee stout by adding a couple gallons of brewed, chilled coffee" that would be a lot of coffee flavor. The other problem is champagne yeast might make your beer bone dry, and for a coffee stout it's better to have a little bit of a sweeter beer to balance out the roastiness and coffee flavors.
Could you post your recipe for further review?

Ummm .... yeah I think pitching champaigne yeast was probably a big mistake, but I guess only time will tell. That yeast will really dry it out, and throw off the body of the beer. Also, with that much coffee, the dark grains, and that yeast, it may be very astringent.

Not really much you can do about it now besides let it do it's thing and give it time. Who knows though, maybe it'll be the best beer you've ever had. Worst case scenerio, you've got an "experimental beer" and you've learned a lesson.

iordz and srm covered most of the bases. I have done exactly what you did before (as far as adding the coffee to the primary prior to fermentation), and it turned out fine. Acidity from the coffee won't kill the yeast---there's simply not enough to make a difference.

What was your temp at pitching? What was the ambient temp during those two weeks? That might help shed light on the situation. Also, what type of yeast did you pitch at first?

They're right, the champagne yeast was probably a bad choice because it will ferment out quite low and leave you with a dryer beer. BUT, not all is lost! Go get yourself some lactose powder and add some to the final product at bottling time IF it's too dry and needs some sweetness. Lactose is unfermentable sugar and will sweeten up your brew if it's too dry.

In the future, keep a bunch of dry ale yeast sachets on hand for situations like this. US-05 is a good choice.

Not sure how large of a batch you are brewing, but even for a 20 gallon batch, "a few gallons of coffee" seems quite large. When I brew a 5g batch of coffee stout, I add around 4 shots of espresso to the secondary after fermentation has completed.

I'm not sure if the acidity in that volume of coffee would affect your yeast or not. I concur with the recommendation to avoid champagne yeast, ya might just try pitching a vial or smack pack of the yeast you originally used.

Whoah, yeah, I missed the "couple of gallons" part. I added a full pot (12cups) to my 5-gallon batch and that was pretty strong. Your stout is gonna be alllll coffee, dude.

Did you take any hydrometer readings to see if you had any fermentation? If you have a low gravity beer, you could have missed the fermentation, which does not have to be a spectacle. You may not have needed to pitch any more yeast at all.


TL

Thanks for the responses.

I'll try to cover all the bases here...

OG was 1.029, haven't taken any secondary readings yet, I suppose that'd be a real easy way to figure out just what's going on, but I don't want to disturb it at this point.

It's only a five gallon batch, and I'd say I added about 1.5 gallons of coffee. This was what the guy at the homebrew supply store suggested (adding coffee as the cooling liquid.)

I think I pitched at about 80, probably too high. I believe the yeast was Wyeast Labs "Irish Ale".

The ambient temp could have been as low as 55, for about three to four days before I moved it to a warmer location...yes, very stupid of me.

I used amber malt extract, rather than dark because of the dark coffee being added.

As far as the addition of lactose powder, first off, is it easy to come by? Secondly if I can't find it, would I be able to add another unfermentable sugar? I've heard molasses is not fermentable at bottling time.

I actually have the feeling that with that small of a starting gravity and the fact that you had lots of sediment (did it look like trub from yeast activity?) that you may have missed the Ale yeast ferment. What you might be seeing now is the additional Champange yeast taking over where the Ale left off. Just a theory though, but you may have not noticed the bulk of the ferment.

80 °F is no where near able to kill your yeast and the 50's will only serve to make it go dormant. I am venturing to guess you kick started it with that high temp, it ran the bulk of the ferment before you noticed. I have had one yeast in particular (S-33) do this to me twice where even the one time, I repitched thinking there was something wrong. Then I thought about it, took a Hydro reading and low and behold it had finished! (well under 48 hrs!!) and so the extra pack of yeast was wasted.

Let me run down what I can here.

After pitching that champagne yeast, a hydrometer reading has little use unless you want to try and stop the fermentation at a certain point. That's tricky but not impossible.

If your OG was as low as 1.029, then you could easily miss the big part of the fermentation while you slept.

Pitching at 80ºF is not too high for any brewer's yeast. Typically, yeast will survive temperatures of 100ºF or more. It's just that we don't so much like what the yeast produces at those temperatures. As long as you get the wort down to whatever temperature you want by the time the fermentation takes off, you're fine. Also, it's best to pitch at a temperature close to what your fermentation temperature will be, so that you don't uneccesarily shock the yeast.

Holding the fermentation at 55ºF also isn't so bad. An ale yeast may not perform optimally at that temperature, but you won't kill it. The best solution is to move it to a warmer temperature. If the fermentation doesn't start back up, you may need to rouse the yeast back up into suspension.

Don't worry about it, and certainly don't beat yourself up about it. You've learned a good lesson with fermentation, though. Very often, it's better to just wait and see than it is to start trying to fix a perceived problem. Often, there isn't a problem to fix. As you brew more, you'll learn more about how yeast does its thing, and you'll be much more comfortable with the process. No matter what, though, have fun!


TL

Meep said:

It's only a five gallon batch, and I'd say I added about 1.5 gallons of coffee. This was what the guy at the homebrew supply store suggested (adding coffee as the cooling liquid.)

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Hi Meep, I did an Irish Coffee Stout too that the LHBS (which in this case maybe the same person) told me to put in 1.5 gallons of coffee. I didn't want it to be overpowering so I only put in 1 gallon. If I were to do it again I would put in even less than that. Although it turned out great 5 years down the road now the coffee flavor is more noticable than anything else. As for finding lactose call our LHBS, if he doesn't have it I am sure he can get it or you could try Austin Homebrew supply. www.austinhomebrew.com

Listen to these guys in here, they know what they are talking about. Myself on the other hand, I am just a noob!!

EricS said:

Hi Meep, I did an Irish Coffee Stout too that the LHBS (which in this case maybe the same person) told me to put in 1.5 gallons of coffee. I didn't want it to be overpowering so I only put in 1 gallon. If I were to do it again I would put in even less than that. Although it turned out great 5 years down the road now the coffee flavor is more noticable than anything else. As for finding lactose call our LHBS, if he doesn't have it I am sure he can get it or you could try Austin Homebrew supply. www.austinhomebrew.com

Listen to these guys in here, they know what they are talking about. Myself on the other hand, I am just a noob!!

Click to expand...

Frugal Home Brewer? I've only been there twice now, but really like the place. It must be nice to live in the same town. Unfortunately there are no supply stores in my neighborhood.

Yeah Frugal is the place. The owner is very knowledgeable and if you don't mind the mess he has just about everything. But usually when you get a recipe from him you should post it here so others can go over it and make any neccessary changes for you.
As for other places to go in our area:

Beer & Grow
285 Janacek Road, Brookfield, WI 53045 - Phone: (262) 789-0555

Brew City Supplies
14835 West Lisbon Road, Brookfield, WI 53005 - Phone: (262) 783-5233

Cedarburg Homebrew & Wine
W62N590 Washington Avenue, Cedarburg, WI 53012 - Phone: (262) 377-1838

Riverside Liquor Party Store
Highway US 2, Florence, WI 54121 - Phone: (715) 696-3600

The Frugal Homebrewer
8008 West National Avenue, Milwaukee, WI 53214 - Phone: (414) 257-9463

The Purple Foot
3167 South 92nd Street, Milwaukee, WI 53227 - Phone: (414) 327-2130

Vent-Matic Company Inc.
N30W23789 Green Road, Pewaukee, WI 53072 - Phone: (262) 695-8981

Frugal Home Brewer
238 West Broadway, Waukesha, WI 53186 - Phone: (262) 544-0894

The Pantry and Homebrewing Depot
7215 West North Avevue, Wauwatosa, WI 53213 - Phone: (414) 778-0781

I would say everything has been covered. Sounds like you are going to have a real interesting brew on your hands, if nothing else a great learning experience. Hope it turns out well for you, if it has to much coffee taste just serve it with coffee cake. If you got the lemons make lemonade.

thanks all.