Sanke Fermenters

I went one page into a search without finding answers so I am surveying sanke fermenting people here.

I got a keggle coming and just picked up a sanke I plan to ferment larger batches in. Question is how do you do it? Something this big throws off my game plan in a big way.

So far i have got it cleaned. I popped an orange carboy plug thing on top but it popped off of its own accord, so I am looking at a 11.5 stopper to see how that fits tomorrow. Up till now I have brewed in the kitchen tossed the finished product in a carboy shook it up pitched the yeast then carried it downstairs to the fermenting (warm) room. Then carried it back up to the kitchen to do anything else with it.

My guess is you have a dedicated space for brewing at this point if not, How do you do the following with your sanke fermenter?
Filling?
Aerating?
Trans
Racking?
Emptying?

Anyone build a fermentation cooler for their sanke?

I use a size 11 stopper with an airlock in it. It works great even for 5 gallon batches in a 15.5 gallon sanke. When I want to transfer I install a sanitized spear and pump it to a corny keg with CO2 for conditioning or cold crash and then serving. It's rather streamlined and the oxygen exposure is far reduced.

Some people install the spear and then leave a tap(coupler) attached to allow gas release. Furthermore, some people due pressure ferments which I won't go into.

Toss a hose clamp on it.

Thanks
Since read all through the 14 pages of the sanke fermenter thread and found a lot of answers.

I am not sure storage then crash cooling is going to happen with this setup just yet. At least not till a keezer or a fermentation storage unit gets added to my equipment.

Not sure which sanke fermentation thread you found. These two both have lots of info:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/sanke-fermenter-conversion-128262/
and
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/
I've been using Derrin's (brewer's hardware) adapters for 5 months or so now and I'm still quite happy with them. This time of year I have my fermenters inside, but I do have an under-workbench cold box for use as it starts to warm up. When I built the coldbox I made sure it would be big enough for at least two keg fermenters since I knew I'd be upgrading at some point.

If you decide to ferment in kegs, you'll want to consider two important points. First up is cleaning - Be prepared to build a keg washer and/or go through a lot of PBW. Not being able to get in there with a scrubby means you need to be proactive with other cleaning methods.

Second big thing is temperature control. Because you can ferment 10-12 gallons all in a single vessel, the heat put out by the yeast can be considerable. My imperial red ale that's winding down now hit 12 degrees above ambient at the peak of fermentation.

If you have any questions ask away

I use two currently. I brew every other week, and for the ales I
do it is just enough. I have 2 more waiting their turn.
I use a 2" tri clamp cap with a 2" tri clamp around the sanke top like darrins style. Bu that is where the similarities end.
I have a 3/4" tri clamp butt weld fitting that is 1 1/8" long welded at the side of the sanke. Then I fashioned a racking arm out of another butt weld fitting and a length of 1/2" tube, bent down. The bend ends up 1/4" above the bottom of the center of the sanke when pointing down. I use It for cultivating yeast when down, and turn I up a bit for racking. When I put the wort in, I use my areation stone in line after my chiller to araete. Totally closed system immediately after BK. I have a tri clamp valve on the racking arm, and can pull FG samples w/o fear of contamination.

I am using a Sanke fermenter conversion from Derrin at Brewer's Hardware as well and absolutely love it. http://www.brewershardware.com/fermenter.htm
I snapped a quick cellphone pic when I racked to keg last weekend. I is a great way to go in my opinion.

OK, here are pics for my stuff. In case anyone was interested.

A couple more...Notice the one racking arm in the lower picture (Behind the valve) has a pointer on it to tell where the arm goes.

Thats a pretty sweet setup, did you make that racking cane?

harpo, in several threads now I've seen some of your awesome handy work! Do you do metal fab for a living?

Airbalancer, have you seen Harpo's hopback? Its pretty sweet too!

airbalancer said:

Thats a pretty sweet setup, did you make that racking cane?

Click to expand...

I did. I just copied a design from St. Pats of Texas. They use a 2" tri clamp design, mine is 1". Here is their design:

pickles said:

harpo, in several threads now I've seen some of your awesome handy work! Do you do metal fab for a living?

Airbalancer, have you seen Harpo's hopback? Its pretty sweet too!

Click to expand...

Yeah, the day job is metal fab. Primarily for the high-tech and medical fields. We also make these on occasion. Means good TIG welders (and I'm no slouch at it myself!) for stainless are always in practice.

But the ideas come from other places, I just see if I can put them to use in my little setup.

Thanks Caspio,
Yep finding Derrins thread got me a lot of answers at first I just skimmed the first page thinking it was only a vendor ad, but upon further inspection it is the most complete source for keg fermenting. I would like to get one or two of those, as I have another keg available to me. The only problem is I am stepping up to this level of brewing E-keggle, controls, etc. My Auberins package arrived today and i am at work trying to make sense of it. I am excited to brew this way but am being nickled and dimed to death. Nickles being $100, dimes being $150.

One of my other hobbies is woodworking and I have been in a cabinet making frenzy so a fermenting chamber would be possible. The only issue is I may be moving soon and not sure if I want to add a huge chest to the move.

Wow harpo,
very nice work and an ispirational design. I have a welder on retainer. Actually not a retainer but I have a welder that does sanitary welds for a living. It is just some random guy, someone gave me his phone #. When I dropped of my keg for keggling. I asked him his price and he said "I like beer". So when I have brewed and given him enough beer that I feel he is in my debt as opposed the other way around I will look into this setup.

I am thinking of taking a welding class next semester wherever I end up. Not that I will be able to pull this type of work off but got to start somewhere.

Thanks for all the kind words. It surely is a fantastic way to keep things in a closed system by using the sankes and either Derrin's cap or the way I went.

I hear you about the .05 and .10 stuff. McMaster likes me 'cause it all adds up.

My best inspiration is to go visit microbrews (of which we have plenty around me) and see what cool toys they have. Then I try and design my own, like my aeration stone. I just kept the mental picture in my head after I visited Odell's Brewing, and replicated it best I could.

Harpo,
Could you please elaborate on the parts I see listed there on the first page?

On the top of the keg is is a 2" triclamp?
Can I order the piece of metal that seals the keg or did you have to fabricate that? How about a part # for the hose barb?

On the photos of the bottom mechanism, what are those parts called? Like the valve mechanism, and the terminating pieces of the keg output and dip tube?

It all looks expensive, no wonder Mcmaster likes you. Do they send you a xmas card as a preferred customer?

Photopilot said:

Harpo,
Could you please elaborate on the parts I see listed there on the first page?

Click to expand...

Sure!

Photopilot said:

On the top of the keg is is a 2" triclamp?
Can I order the piece of metal that seals the keg or did you have to fabricate that? How about a part # for the hose barb?

Click to expand...

The top of the keg fits the 2" triclamp clamp. It also fits the 2" cap shown here:

You need one of these gaskets from stpats.com
Sanke-to-TriClamp Gasket $2
Modified 2" Silicone Gasket for using TriClamp fittings on standard Sanke beer kegs. [You do not need to weld a 2" TriClamp ferrule onto Sanke kegs to use TriClamp fittings.]

You can make one yourself if you buy the Mcmaster gasket which has a rib on both sides for two tri clamp fitting, you will just have to shave off one of the ribs for the sanke side. The McMaster gaskets are only 2 for a $1, but shaving that rib takes a minute or two. The st pats ones are good silicone and work well. You just might have to buy a few to make it worht the shipping.

The barbed fitting is McMaster #5361K34 if I remember correctly. I drilled a hole in the 2" tri clamp cap and welded in the barbed fitting. I use the tube on the fitting for blowoff during fermentation and I hook it up to cO2 when I need to rack to another vessel or filter before going into my corny kegs.

Photopilot said:

On the photos of the bottom mechanism, what are those parts called? Like the valve mechanism, and the terminating pieces of the keg output and dip tube?

Click to expand...

The bottom of the keg part and the racking arm require the following:
2x McMaster part #45195K74
High-Polish 316L SS Quick-Clamp Tube Fitting Med Butt-Weld Adapter for 3/4" Tube OD, 1-1/8" L
In stock at $18.42 Each

1x McMaster part #45195K72
High-Polish 316L SS Quick-Clamp Tube Fitting Med Butt-Weld Adapter for 1/2" Tube OD, 1-1/8" L
In stock at $18.42 Each

2x Mcmaster part #45195K44
304 SS Wing-Nut Clamp for 1/2"& 3/4" Tube OD
In stock at $6.78 Each

2x Mcmaster part #4509K12
Buna-N Gasket for Sanitary Tube Fitting for 3/4" Tube OD

Some of Mcmaster part #89895K148
(Same as 89895K746)
Type 304 SS Smooth-Bore Seamless Tubing 1/2" OD, .37" ID, .065" Wall, 3' Length In stock at $21.68 Each (you will have to do the geometry to figure out how much you need when bent down and to go to the wall of the keg)

Then one 3-piece ball valve with sanitary ends. I got one from Mcmaster (44755K51--Sanitary Easy-Maintenance 316 SS Ball Valve for 1/2" Tube OD, Quick Clamp Connection-In stock at $75.38 Each) and one from SABCO (at $63.95). Sabco is cheaper, but the shipping made it almost the same and it took about 8 days to get to me, where the McMaster one was overnight.

Now, to make the racking arm requires some puzzle work. After you estimate the tube and get it cut and bent (dont worry, you can always trim it if its too long--just make sure that the radius will allow the 3/4" tri clamp fitting to go over the bend), butt-weld the longer end to the non-tri clamp (tube) end of the 1/2" tri clamp fitting (McMaster part #45195K72). The take one of the 3/4" tri clamp fittings (McMaster part #45195K74) and facing it the opposite way of the 1/2" fitting, slide it onto the tube and over the 1/2" tri clamp fitting you just welded to the tube. Then butt weld the tube end of the 3/4" tri-clamp fitting to the backside of the 1/2" tri-clamp fitting. Viola! Racking arm is ready.

Only thing left to do is weld the remaining 3/4" tri-clamp fitting (McMaster part #45195K74) to the side of the keg. Then put it all together with the clamps and gaskets. Beauty part is, if you want to rotate the arm, just loosen the clamp holding the arm in just enough to do so. The gasket will allow it to rotate around. Add the valve and you have got yourself a fermenter with racking arm, blowoff tube and completely closed system.

Photopilot said:

It all looks expensive, no wonder Mcmaster likes you. Do they send you a xmas card as a preferred customer?

Click to expand...

No card yet, but on numerous occasions they have exchanged items that I rerturned and didn't charge me shipping on the new stuff.

Thanks for that detailed write up. It made ordering much easier Now I can see why the Sabco fermenter costs what it does.

Cheers
Mike

Thanks Harpo,
I was right not only does it look expensive. I just picked up some stainless today and a few other things. I realized if I am going to have money left for grain I better stick with what I got for now, the orange cap. Got to try out that pipe clamp and see how it holds.

You can make one yourself if you buy the Mcmaster gasket which has a rib on both sides for two tri clamp fitting, you will just have to shave off one of the ribs for the sanke side. The McMaster gaskets are only 2 for a $1, but shaving that rib takes a minute or two. The st pats ones are good silicone and work well. You just might have to buy a few to make it worht the shipping.

Click to expand...

Do you have the McMaster Number for the Gaskets, Thank you

JayAre19 said:

Do you have the McMaster Number for the Gaskets, Thank you

Click to expand...

Here you go:

McMaster #4509k15

Thank man i will try to make this project on the weekend i have couple of keg that i got from free

Man, Harpo, That is a nice looking setup.

Betcha got a pretty sweet keg washer, too, eh?

does anyone know if this rotating arm can be purchased ready-made? thanks

Nice work harpo, I have been looking for a way to incorporate a rotating racking arm into my sanke fermenter, thanks for the tips!

Thanks, guys! It is still works great!

If it wasn't cost prohibitive, I'd make these. But the three items that are required just to make the racking cane are about $50 in materials. 12" of stainless tube at $12, and two tri-clamp fittings at $19/ each. Then you have to bend the tube and weld the assembly. Bending isn't that much, but the welding of the two tri-clamp fittings would add another $25. I don't think many people would buy a racking arm for $100, only to have to weld in another Tri-clamp to the bottom side of their sanke. All in all, unless volume could be reached, the cost total would be near $150 each.

Don't tempt me harpo....

I've been fermenting in Sanke's for about a year. I tried at first to do a closed transfer to my corny with Co2, but had one problem. How do I tell when my corny is full? Especially now that I have moved to 10 and 20 gallon batches.

smoa said:

I've been fermenting in Sanke's for about a year. I tried at first to do a closed transfer to my corny with Co2, but had one problem. How do I tell when my corny is full? Especially now that I have moved to 10 and 20 gallon batches.

Click to expand...

I have figured that 5 gallons of beer plus the corny ~roughly~ weighs in at 50lbs on a shipping scale. I put the empty corny on the scale, and it reads 10lbs. When I get to 48-49lbs, I stop. 50 leaves almost no headspace in the corny. If I have more beer than will fit in the corny, I adjust my final volume down next batch. If I don't have enough to fill the corny, I adjust up...

Harpo, I didn't go the whole threadless bit by I have used your ideas to make a similar type of dip tube for my 3 keg setup. I use 3 of these in the boil, mash, and hlt kegs. I have 1.5" Tri clamps on each of the vessels. I fabbed these by ordering a 1.5" by 1/2" npt coupler. I then bored out an end cap and welded this to the adapter.