Volume Sensing - What are You using

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On mine I used a flowmeter from Omega that uses a Hall effect sensor to read water coming from my HTL tank. It inputs pulses to my Unitronics controller that I use to calculate flow volume and I can read frequency to get flow rate.
It works very well for me and very accurate. As far as level sensors I saw somebody mention, I use Stainless steel Level switches in my HTL tank to signal the controller that the HLT is full so turn off the water input valve, and when it get too low (I heat HLT electric with 5500 Watt element) to turn on water valve to fill the tank again. Also it makes sure if the water gets too low to cut the power to the heating element. They also work very reliably.

The Latter Logic takes input I enter into the HMI or pre-programmed recipe to take the grain weight and the water to grist ratio I program to calculate the volume needed and measure that amount on the transfer to the Mash tun.
I was playing with a proportional control valve to adjust flow rate for the sparge but found it more reliable to use a Blickmann autosparge arm instead and use valves to direct flow properly in the system. I think using the flowmeter is crucial to the entire system to keep it fully automated.
BTW, I did once had to send the meter for service and while it was out I reprogrammed it to measure flow volume based on time. I have a fairly steady flow rate from my pumps so I measures how long it took to transfer 1 liter of liquid from HLT and calculated the Liters/per second to use to turn on the valve from the HTL for the amount of time needed to transfer the needed volume. It worked, not as accurate as I would have hoped but it got close enough. The mash ratio is not a hard and fast rule anyhow, accuracy is not that critical, ballpark is good enough for it.
Could be a cheap way to go without a flowmeter if needed, granted you have a controller capable of it, or use some timers otherwise.

Hope this helps!
 
On mine I used a flowmeter from Omega that uses a Hall effect sensor to read water coming from my HTL tank. It inputs pulses to my Unitronics controller that I use to calculate flow volume and I can read frequency to get flow rate.
It works very well for me and very accurate. As far as level sensors I saw somebody mention, I use Stainless steel Level switches in my HTL tank to signal the controller that the HLT is full so turn off the water input valve, and when it get too low (I heat HLT electric with 5500 Watt element) to turn on water valve to fill the tank again. Also it makes sure if the water gets too low to cut the power to the heating element. They also work very reliably.

The Latter Logic takes input I enter into the HMI or pre-programmed recipe to take the grain weight and the water to grist ratio I program to calculate the volume needed and measure that amount on the transfer to the Mash tun.
I was playing with a proportional control valve to adjust flow rate for the sparge but found it more reliable to use a Blickmann autosparge arm instead and use valves to direct flow properly in the system. I think using the flowmeter is crucial to the entire system to keep it fully automated.
BTW, I did once had to send the meter for service and while it was out I reprogrammed it to measure flow volume based on time. I have a fairly steady flow rate from my pumps so I measures how long it took to transfer 1 liter of liquid from HLT and calculated the Liters/per second to use to turn on the valve from the HTL for the amount of time needed to transfer the needed volume. It worked, not as accurate as I would have hoped but it got close enough. The mash ratio is not a hard and fast rule anyhow, accuracy is not that critical, ballpark is good enough for it.
Could be a cheap way to go without a flowmeter if needed, granted you have a controller capable of it, or use some timers otherwise.

Hope this helps!


Solid. We used similar setups to fill our massive reactors at my old job. What is the model number of the Omega sensor you are using? Cost? What sort of IO requirement for it?

Long and short of it: I need a flow meter for my system ;)
 
I know it sounds crazy, but keep a lookout for a Micro Motion mass flowmeter on eBay. They will give you flow, temp, mass flow and density(sg).

I got one on the MLT and BK loop. Just got another off ebay, set up with a stainless stand and display for 50 bucks. I'm going to use it when I transfer from the fermenter to keg, that will be my recorded final volume and FG. I may also recirculate via a parastalic pump from the racking arm to the tri clover in the lid through the flowmeter to get a realtime density durring fermentation.
 
I know it sounds crazy, but keep a lookout for a Micro Motion mass flowmeter on eBay. They will give you flow, temp, mass flow and density(sg).

I got one on the MLT and BK loop. Just got another off ebay, set up with a stainless stand and display for 50 bucks. I'm going to use it when I transfer from the fermenter to keg, that will be my recorded final volume and FG. I may also recirculate via a parastalic pump from the racking arm to the tri clover in the lid through the flowmeter to get a realtime density durring fermentation.

I know. :cross: I keep seeing these on your build, and I am very familiar with programming them (HART). Do you know what applications they were usually used for? I will setup an alert... this is definitely the best solution.

How did you calibrate SG on yours? Distilled water?
 
I know. :cross: I keep seeing these on your build, and I am very familiar with programming them (HART). Do you know what applications they were usually used for? I will setup an alert... this is definitely the best solution.



How did you calibrate SG on yours? Distilled water?


I did a zero flow calibration, it doesn't need a density calibration. Just scaled it to 1.0 to 2.0
 
Solid. We used similar setups to fill our massive reactors at my old job. What is the model number of the Omega sensor you are using? Cost? What sort of IO requirement for it?

Long and short of it: I need a flow meter for my system ;)

Omega is a FPR205P-PC-PS

IO uses a High speed counter PNP Digital input

The only caveat for it is that I can't lt it go over 70c since this is a polypro body and that is its temp max. If I get some extra cash I will likely get the stainless steel unit that has a higher temp rating.
Also there are two flavors of it, one for low volume, one for high volume. The hi volume works just fine as well but the low volume one is likely better for this use. The one I picked up was on ebay for 50 bucks so I am willing to deal with the limits.
 
I know it sounds crazy, but keep a lookout for a Micro Motion mass flowmeter on eBay. They will give you flow, temp, mass flow and density(sg).

I got one on the MLT and BK loop. Just got another off ebay, set up with a stainless stand and display for 50 bucks. I'm going to use it when I transfer from the fermenter to keg, that will be my recorded final volume and FG. I may also recirculate via a parastalic pump from the racking arm to the tri clover in the lid through the flowmeter to get a realtime density durring fermentation.

Wow, that sounds like the answer to all my problems. Do you have a link to the specific model you are using? From what little looking into it I did it seems that they are way out of my price range.
 
Wow, that sounds like the answer to all my problems. Do you have a link to the specific model you are using? From what little looking into it I did it seems that they are way out of my price range.

This is definitely the way to go. Just make sure you have a way to take in all the data (could be 2 loops)
 
I know it sounds crazy, but keep a lookout for a Micro Motion mass flowmeter on eBay. They will give you flow, temp, mass flow and density(sg).

I got one on the MLT and BK loop. Just got another off ebay, set up with a stainless stand and display for 50 bucks. I'm going to use it when I transfer from the fermenter to keg, that will be my recorded final volume and FG. I may also recirculate via a parastalic pump from the racking arm to the tri clover in the lid through the flowmeter to get a realtime density durring fermentation.

Do you know what the micro motions you have were previously used for?
 
Wow, that sounds like the answer to all my problems. Do you have a link to the specific model you are using? From what little looking into it I did it seems that they are way out of my price range.

There is some issues you will have to overcome, you need a hart communicator. Also the transmitters need matched to the sensor.
The 9712 gives only one analog out
The 9739 gives two
 
I just stumbled upon this thread and from there, I began looking at your build thread. WOW. I have been working on a system similar to this as part of a mechanical engineering senior design project. I have been looking into mass flow meter as, pressure sensors, volume indicators, and proximity sensors just weren't giving us the accuracy we wanted when trying to back-calculate density. Like the above poster asked, what all am I looking for when purchasing an ebay mass flow sensor. I googled Hart communicator and that looks expensive (we are on a school budget). Any help with the selection process would be greatly appreciated. My fear is ordering something and it be missing some critical component.

Thank you,

Ricker
 
I just stumbled upon this thread and from there, I began looking at your build thread. WOW. I have been working on a system similar to this as part of a mechanical engineering senior design project. I have been looking into mass flow meter as, pressure sensors, volume indicators, and proximity sensors just weren't giving us the accuracy we wanted when trying to back-calculate density. Like the above poster asked, what all am I looking for when purchasing an ebay mass flow sensor. I googled Hart communicator and that looks expensive (we are on a school budget). Any help with the selection process would be greatly appreciated. My fear is ordering something and it be missing some critical component.



Thank you,



Ricker


These sensors are very accurate, so much so, they use them as a custody transfer for shipping products.

Do a search and lookup micro motion mass flow meters, you should get pointed to Emerson. There are tables that tell you what sensor is compatible with what transmitter.

There are also remote electronic modules that I think take the place of the Hart transmitters. Look at ebay.

So you need a sensor and a transmitter to make the system work.


I have the manuals for the 9712 and 9739, I can send to you.

There is a learning curve. These are truly instruments.

Let me know if you need anything else.
 
I just used a liquid flow meter with pulse output. It's frequency coral ates to the flow rate and pulses to the liters transfered. Most accurate way I found to measure how much liquid was moved.
 
This problem has been plaguing me for eons. It's been over 10 years since my first automated brew rig concept (yet to actually BUILD one, maybe someday). At that time there was pretty much only surplus industrial stuff available for controllers, sensors, etc. Most of those have been replaced by more user-friendly, reasonably priced hobbyist level equipment (thanks, China!). Level sensing is one that seems to have remained elusive. I'm surprised no one has come up with a relatively cheap, easy to integrate solution for this problem.
 
I've used an ultrasonic proximity level sensor with good success for the last 2 years. The sensor is mounted on a board that I put over the brew pot when needed, it fires straight down into the pot.

The sensor is connected to a small PLC in my automated system. I also control my pumps, PIDs, display and other through the PLC.

I installed the level sensor to measure the water level in my HLT to insure that the pump only added water when the sensor detected the water level in the pot was below the high level mark, and stopped the pump if the volume got below the low level mark. It iseasy setting high and low level marks in the sensor (put the sensor in program mode, added water to low level mark and pushed the sensor button, added more water to the high level mark and again pushed the button. Done).

You can also setup the ultrasonic sensor to give you the volume of the liquid in the container. They are used in industry for large containers that the operator cannot see inside. I have not done it but I believe you setup the sensor to return an analog output that the PLC can detect the V/mA level from the sensor and calculate % since it already knows the high and low level voltages.

Here is the link where I bought mine if interested:
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...nsors/Ultrasonic_Proximity_Sensors/UK1A-E3-0A
 
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