Setting Up My First All Grain System Question

I've been brewing extract and partial extract for 5 years now and am making the jump to all grain. I've begun the process of buying bigger better equipment when the wife's not looking . So I've gathered some items and have changed how I thought I was going to setup several times, and am now leaning towards a HERMS setup with fly sparging on a single tier setup. But before I commit I wanted to get some opinions based on what I have...so here is what I've got:

1- 10 Gallon Fermenters Favorite cooler with a ball valve and false bottom
1- 10 Gallon Megapot with ball valve and thermometer
1- 15 Gallon Edelmetall Bru Burner with ball valve, thermometer, and recirculation port.
1- SS inline chugger pump (I know I will need a 2nd pump for fly sparging.)
1- Edelmetall propane floor burner with stand

I was originally thinking of using the cooler as the mash tun and the Megapot as the HLT. Then use my immersion chiller or install a new HERMS coil in the Megapot HLT to recirculate the mash. I would also be installing an electric heating element in the HLT as well to save on propane. Then recirculate the mash for clearer wort.

Now I am thinking of of using the cooler as my HLT and just pump hot water from my BK to it for sparge water and use my Megapot as the mashtun but I wasnt sure you could use an electric heating element in a mashtun? It would save me having to buy a coil and i could just recirculate out and back in the MT.

Also, I have been looking at getting a 30 plate duda diesel but plate chillers seem to have either seem to be the best thing in the world for speed or the worst thing in the world based on sanitization fears.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

chromag said:

1.I was originally thinking of using the cooler as the mash tun and the Megapot as the HLT. Then use my immersion chiller or install a new HERMS coil in the Megapot HLT to recirculate the mash. I would also be installing an electric heating element in the HLT as well to save on propane. Then recirculate the mash for clearer wort.

2.Now I am thinking of of using the cooler as my HLT and just pump hot water from my BK to it for sparge water and use my Megapot as the mashtun but I wasnt sure you could use an electric heating element in a mashtun? It would save me having to buy a coil and i could just recirculate out and back in the MT.


Thanks in advance for any advice.

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1. Using the cooler as a mash tun is a common thing. You're fine. Your mega pot as a HLT is a good idea.

Using your immersion chiller as a method of recirculation is confusing. What's your plan?

The herms coil in your mega pot is what made sense to me when I built my modified Kal clone. Installing a heating element in the HLT with the herms coil is a good idea but you'll need a way to control the temperature and power going into the water. I don't think I saw anything about that in your plan.

The purpose of the herms system it to maintain control on mash temperature. Recirculation of wort and clarification is a byproduct of maintaining mash temp.

2. You probably aren't going to want an element in your mash. It's too thick. You could direct fire it but I've had good luck scorching my mashes.

If you're circulating out the bottom of the MLT and back on top of the mash you're just vorlaufing.

I'd stick with your original plan.

You really, REALLY don't need a HERMS to go all grain. HERMS goes above and beyond what is necessary to homebrew, and should really be used to emulate the consistency required to brew commercially.

1) It is really expensive.
2) It is extremely complex.
3) It is prone to failure.

You can brew GREAT beer with a simple 3-tier system (or BIAB, for that matter). HERMS is simply not necessary at all to brew delicious, repeatable beer. If you want to take the plunge a little further down the road, by all means do so, but it's probably worth a few batches so you see what you're getting into.

specharka said:

You really, REALLY don't need a HERMS to go all grain. HERMS goes above and beyond what is necessary to homebrew, and should really be used to emulate the consistency required to brew commercially.

1) It is really expensive.
2) It is extremely complex.
3) It is prone to failure.

You can brew GREAT beer with a simple 3-tier system (or BIAB, for that matter). HERMS is simply not necessary at all to brew delicious, repeatable beer. If you want to take the plunge a little further down the road, by all means do so, but it's probably worth a few batches so you see what you're getting into.

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I haven't been in a brewery that uses herms. If herms goes above and beyond what is necessary to home brew why don't we just use extract instead of all grain brewing? After all, that is an actual commercial process.

1. It's really expensive - to buy everything pre made.
2. It's extremely complex - if you make it. It can be as simple as you make it. Same thing goes with all brewing processes.
3. It's prone to failure - this is an interesting point and completely false.

FWIW, you can brew GREAT beer on your stove and it will be repeatable too. At 5 years in, I think this guy know if he's ready to take the plunge. He's already amassed almost everything required for a single tier system. At least he won't have to buy everything twice.

specharka said:

1) It is really expensive.
2) It is extremely complex.
3) It is prone to failure.

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None of those factors are inherent in a HERMS system, though one could choose to include any or all if one wants to.

After I started recirculating my mash, seeking to attain consistent temperatures throughout (the primary reason for mash recirculation), I realized that adding HERMS would be simple and cheap. All I did to evaluate it was to suspend my extra immersion wort chiller inside the MLT and run the recirculation through it. By turning the HLT burner up and down I could control the temperature of the wort being returned to the MLT and thus the mash temperature. That's what HERMS is. No expense, very little complexity, and not much to fail. I decided that it worked pretty well so I invested $100 in a stainless steel heat exchanger coil and mounted it permanently in the MLT. Still not much of those three factors. Next was a low pressure burner for the MLT, with a Honeywell valve and a $35 Inkbird controller. That did cost maybe $150 but was hardly "really expensive" - and now I had automatic mash temperature control. Now I'm building a controller for all three burners with PIDS and that will cost maybe $200 plus more new burners and solenoid valves but will do much more than just HERMS - it will even offer the option of using RIMS instead if the mood strikes. Still not too complex, still not much to fail.

I don't really understand why you're trying to debate me on this. If you want to spend money to try and achieve a perfectly consistent product between batches, HERMS is the way to go. If you just want to go all grain, it's completely unnecessary.

Unless you're looking to perfect a particular recipe, there's no real reason to make the investment to begin with.

specharka said:

2) It is extremely complex.
3) It is prone to failure.

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Huh? Never used RIMS but as mentioned HERMS is certianly not what I would call "extremely complex". Prone to failure in what way?

specharka said:

I don't really understand why you're trying to debate me on this.

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Huh? What debate? I made precisely one post. You expressed your opinion. That's OK, but it means I get to express my (informed) opinion, too. Unless the site belongs to you, in which case please excuse my intrusion.

jrcrilly said:

Huh? What debate? I made precisely one post. You expressed your opinion. That's OK, but it means I get to express my (informed) opinion, too. Unless the site belongs to you, in which case please excuse my intrusion.

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Sorry, should have quoted the post above yours.

There's nothing inherently bad about RIMS or HERMS systems. I just don't think it's worthwhile investment for a new all grain brewer.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread. I'll just show myself out...

I simplified it all, returned my new shiny equipment and picked up a Grainfather instead. Wife is happy for the smaller footprint, and I'm happy its electric that i can brew inside in the winter and outside in the summer. Brewed my first batch as a Centennial IPA and so far so good!