Pilsner with Lager Yeast ?? Prima Pils Clone

Good Afternoon !

I'd like some advice... comments... recommendations... on substituting an ale yeast for a lager beer. I want to brew a Victory Prima Pils clone (or similar) but don't have the capability to lager at 40 degrees. WYeastLabs lists an ale yeast 1332 for a Classic American Pilsner. See the link below.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=139

I have modest experience brewing ales... about 100 gals so far... and just graduated to an all-grain 15 gal brewery. I'm only vaguely familiar with the complexity of brewing lagers... so if I'm way out in left field with this idea, please let me know !!

Regards,

Don Pippins

I don't think you'd get a true pils with an ale yeast. You'll be lacking a certain characteristic and the crisp clearity of a true lager. That being said, you can use a kolsch yeast, and if you can ferment low, say 64, you could get close. You won't have a clone, or a true pils, but you'll have a good beer.

Pick a Kolsch yeast and call it a Kolsch.

A Kolsch is "pretty much" a Pilsner with an ale yeast.

Jackson and Gila !! Thanks for the response !

Using your comments and other sources I developed this recipe with BeerSmith. I'd appreciate your comments !

15 Gallons
Whole Grain - 15 gal fermenter
Sparge temps ???
30 lbs or Belgian 2 row Pilsner 2.0 SRM (Seems like a lot of grain??)
3 oz Magnum - bittering - 14% - 60 minutes
3-oz Hallertau - aroma - 4% - 15 minutes
3- oz Saaz - aroma - 4% - 15 minutes
Kolsch Ale yeast starter - 2 quarts - maybe should be larger... (Some recommend Safale US-05)

1.055 OG
1.010 FG
ABV 5.5%
IBU 63
Decreasing the boil time of the aroma hops reduces the IBU to mid 50's

We should be able to keep the fermenatation temperature close to 50 degrees. Then it would be kegged in 5 gallon batches and kept at 40 degrees for several weeks.

I noticed a curious (to me) effect in BeerSmith while developing this recipe. As I increased the grain weight the bitterness went up even though the amount of hops was constant!! Is that the way it really works... a higher OG alllows great hops utilization... or is this just a flaw in BeerSmith?

Regards,

Don Pippins

DonPippins said:

I noticed a curious (to me) effect in BeerSmith while developing this recipe. As I increased the grain weight the bitterness went up even though the amount of hops was constant!! Is that the way it really works... a higher OG alllows great hops utilization... or is this just a flaw in BeerSmith?

Regards,

Don Pippins

Click to expand...

Looks good. Brew it and get back to us.

Yeah, that's how it works. Crazy.

I like your recipe. One issue I have experienced in the past is the presence of sulfur compounds in the finished beer when using pilsner malt. The sulfur compounds are volatile and are driven off by heat; pilsner is kilned at a lower temperature than other malts so it has a stronger concentration of these compounds (DMS and its precursors). With a short boil not all of these compounds will be driven off. A 90 boil will almost always reduce the amount DMS below the flavor threshold. Chilling the beer rapidly will also help, it is when the beer is between around 110 and 180 degrees when the DMS compounds will be locked in.

The temps you have listed for your brew are perfect for a lager. I know it is ideal to lager around 35 but 40 is just fine. Also, a fermentation temp of 50 is close to what most of the lager yeasts prefer. You can select a good one that will work with your abilities.

I really like the simple grist. A high quality malt like that will produce great results and I like your choice of hops. I would stagger my additions, but that is my preference. Just be sure to boil for 90 min and if you ue a lager yeast do a dicetyl rest if necessary. Happy brewing!