Sanke Weldless Bottom Drain

I had a chat with Reelale about a mash tun make from a Sanke that was NOT going to be direct heated. It would be used for basic infusion mashing and the temp would be held with a RIMS tube (though HERMS is equally valid). For sure, a little closed foam or reflectix insulation wouldn't hurt either.

I got to suggesting using a bottom drain on it if it hadn't already been drilled. Keep in mind, this should work very well for ANY sanke vessel EXCEPT for a direct fired boil kettle or mash tun. Everything else is fair game; passive MLT, HLTs of any kind, and electrically heated boil kettles too. The next two images show how I'd do it if a false bottom is desired for either the MLT or a coarse whole hop filter in a boil kettle.





If you do NOT need the false bottom, the nipple, cap and locknut would just be replaced with a 1/2" x 3/8 hex threaded reducing bushing. Done.

The alternative for this type of use is to get a 2" triclover to 1/2 FPT and clamp it to the top neck, then invert the keg and cut a hole in the bottom. Of course, that's a bit more pricey.

Nice! I'll bet Derrin could hook one up with a tri-clover fitting for probably the same or even maybe less than the individual parts in your drawing. I like your design, and there should be essentially zero deadspace. I'm guessing that all of the parts are available in stainless.

I like the ingenuity,but why not just flip the Sanke over and attach a 2" tri-clover to it?

pickles said:

I like the ingenuity,but why not just flip the Sanke over and attach a 2" tri-clover to it?

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+1 To this.....way cleaner and easier. Bobby mentioned this in his post....given the choice, this is the way to go.

If your top is already cut, you could still get awesome results by soldering a drain in. I recently did just that with a 1" coupler and it's freakin' sweet In a keg with a domed bottom, you'd have almost no liquid left!

Top is not cut as of yet. I'm leaning heavily toward the tri-clamp version with the 12" false bottom. I can barely solder copper pipe....stainless is completely out of my league.

I have the tri-clamp to 1" elbow fitting, I just have been so busy with all other things this year that I haven't brewed much or worked on my system at all. When I do get around to building this I will post pictures.

Reelale said:

Top is not cut as of yet. I'm leaning heavily toward the tri-clamp version with the 12" false bottom. I can barely solder copper pipe....stainless is completely out of my league.

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I felt the same way...the secret is using the right flux....StayClean flux is what you need. If you push the fitting through with a "keg tool" the results are beautiful and really strong.

But tri-clamps are the best. There's nothing like feeling the quality of those parts....my friends are blown away just by the look and feel of them, and they know very little about brewing, etc.

In fairness, my design is 100% weldless, no soldering or anything. It also accounts for a way to hold the false bottom centered and tight to the bottom. If you go TC, you'll have to tack weld a couple stainless bolts to the bottom to hold the FB down.

Bobby_M said:

In fairness, my design is 100% weldless, no soldering or anything. It also accounts for a way to hold the false bottom centered and tight to the bottom. If you go TC, you'll have to tack weld a couple stainless bolts to the bottom.

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Ah, I see that now. I'm guessing the weight of the grist wouldn't hold it tight enough? I do very little stirring at mash-in, and then none during recirculation.

I wouldn't trust a FB to stay put if you stir at all.

Point taken.....I've got some pondering to do.

I am planning an upside down keg MLT and was also thinking of this issue with the false bottom moving around while stirring. This thread got me thinking. I'm at work so sorry for the awesome pen scratched diagram. I uploaded it with my phone.



The 3/4" fitting should allow room for a 1/4" or so center bolt to go through, holding down the false bottom. It would be even better to find a type ot T-fitting for the bottom that had a 1/4" female thread on the bottom side to hold the bolt, eliminating the need for the nut and washers. I'm not sure, but you may want a wider than 3/4" opening at the bottom since the threaded pipe there would decrease the flow even more, all with a 1/4" bolt down the middle. Maybe even use a 1/8" or so bolt. That may be the hardest piece to find.

What do you think?

Perfect timing on this thread. I just picked up 3 sankes and cut the bottom off of one to make one of these style HLTs/MLTs. According to the shipping information, I have the tri-clover waiting for me at home as well... time to get to work

We're nit picking designs right? If that's cool, I think that design has a few flaws. First, you'll have to disassemble each time for cleanup and you're always messing with the sealing part. It's also a larger collection of parts compared to my design. I mean, if using a triclover is the priority, this does it, but I don't see the benefit. The only thing this makes up for is if you don't have a way to drill a 13/16" hole in the bottom of your keg. Bottom line, my whole assembly would cost you under $20 while the 2" TC to 1/2 MNPT fitting would be $22 by itself.

If you're already committed to the TC fitting and have the bottom cut off, I'd bring the triclover to a welder and have him tack on two small stainless bolts with the heads cut off and the threaded end sticking up. Drill holes in the FB to match and hold it down with acorn nuts or wing nuts. If welding isn't an option you can also drill shallow holes in the TC and tap them for threaded rod.

Bobby,

I like the design a lot. I think it fills a need and does so simply, something I appreciate. The only concern that I have is with some grain or husk material getting past the false bottom and sticking in the lower drain holes. This would be hard to unstick completely, and could cause some brew day headache. Just a though.

Joshua

Bobby - good point. I found my kegs super cheap, so I'm not too worried about the other costs just yet. And I've only done one so I'll probably use it for the HLT and your design for the MLT as I've been trying to think through the FB...

Either way, if screw a keg up I know where to find em...

Thanks, Bobby_M. You're right, cleaning this every time may be a pain... I was thinking that as well.

I like your idea of tacking on some stainless bolts instead of using all of those fittings. I will probably stick with the inverted keg for other reasons (and when it's done I will post about it). Thanks for your designs!

Quick question, what's the best source for the silicone washers? Is that a Home Depot/Lowes type product? Not sure I've ever seen anything like that there.

jfkriege said:

Bobby,

I like the design a lot. I think it fills a need and does so simply, something I appreciate. The only concern that I have is with some grain or husk material getting past the false bottom and sticking in the lower drain holes. This would be hard to unstick completely, and could cause some brew day headache. Just a though.

Joshua

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That's a good point. You could drill even bigger holes in the side walls of the nipple or upside the whole thing to 3/4. In my MLT, my siphon tube goes almost to the bottom and there are only a few slots cut, nowhere near 1/4" wide.

If the FB is held down well, the size of the particles that get past will be tiny. Most of the problems people have with large amounts of grain getting through seem to be ones that use a flexible piece of tubing between the bulkhead and FB, such as in a cooler.

Mcmaster has them, but you can also buy a silicone baby bottle nipple and use the ring.

Here's how I did my weldless bottom draining keggles on the cheap-https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/start-another-herms-192608/

I almost did a FB held down with a pipe nipple and cap like BobbyM showed, but the two piece FB ended up being surprisingly sturdy, and it makes cleaning easier. So far I've only tested it with water since I wanted to wait until I had the silicone o-rings. They just arrived last night, so I think I'll try a maiden brew session next weekend.

JuanMoore said:

Here's how I did my weldless bottom draining keggles on the cheap-https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/start-another-herms-192608/

I almost did a FB held down with a pipe nipple and cap like BobbyM showed, but the two piece FB ended up being surprisingly sturdy, and it makes cleaning easier. So far I've only tested it with water since I wanted to wait until I had the silicone o-rings. They just arrived last night, so I think I'll try a maiden brew session next weekend.

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No offense, and good job on fitting all the pieces together. It just looks like, to me, that there is a lot of pieces and a lot of places for leaks. I know in plumbing, the less fittings you have, the better off you are. If it works for you though, that's great.

I agree. It's a crafty way of reusing the stock "bung?" but aside from the tricked out 2" TC mating up, I see no reason to invert the keg.

Reelale said:

No offense, and good job on fitting all the pieces together. It just looks like, to me, that there is a lot of pieces and a lot of places for leaks. I know in plumbing, the less fittings you have, the better off you are. If it works for you though, that's great.

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I agree, and would have liked to just use tri-clamps with silcone gaskets, but the cheapest I found (KLG stainless) would have been ~$26 per vessel after shipping, and would have resulted in the plumbing sticking out way below the keg skirt. For me this is an attempt to build a fully functional HERMS for less than $200, using mostly parts and materials I already have on hand. The way I put these together cost me ~$4 per vessel, they hold water just fine, and the plumbing doesn't interfere with my ghetto brew stand. FWIW if I had found larger OD SS washers I could have simplified the configuration greatly.

Bobby_M said:

I agree. It's a crafty way of reusing the stock "bung?" but aside from the tricked out 2" TC mating up, I see no reason to invert the keg.

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The benefit for me was the keg skirt being taller on the top, so that the plumbing doesn't stick out below the keg, and I can exit through the handle hole.

Bobby_M said:

I agree. It's a crafty way of reusing the stock "bung?" but aside from the tricked out 2" TC mating up, I see no reason to invert the keg.

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The thing I like about mine is no dead space. I don't really care about wort left behind, etc; but when it comes to cleaning it's great. My HLT and MT are hard plumbed so I can rinse all the gunk, soap and water out the bottom and call it a day. My Bk on the otherhand has to have the water removed by me and it bugs me.

I hear ya, the deadspace in my design would be the small ring of space around and up to the height of the locknut. I suppose it would take two paper towels to soak that much up though. It's probably equivalent to what's back-spilled from a traditional siphon tube.

This is definitely the best weldless bottom drain design I've seen. I think I'll solder some ss bolts to the bottom of my MT to hold down the FB. I only stir at dough in but it would save my pumps from errant grains. Good design Bobby.

<stupid question>

what kind of metal would the elbow/nipple/cap be? Brass, galvanized? I haven't really found stainless locally (in my limited time looking for it)....

</stupid question>

BulldogBrewer said:

<stupid question>

what kind of metal would the elbow/nipple/cap be? Brass, galvanized? I haven't really found stainless locally (in my limited time looking for it)....

</stupid question>

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I would definitely go with stainless. Maybe copper if you can find those fittings in copper. If you're like me, I have to order on-line. Bargain Fittings dot com has some fittings and he's a member here. Great person to deal with too.

Bobby_M said:

I hear ya, the deadspace in my design would be the small ring of space around and up to the height of the locknut. I suppose it would take two paper towels to soak that much up though. It's probably equivalent to what's back-spilled from a traditional siphon tube.

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Bobby -- I built my MLT and Electric HLT with bottom drains using the same weldless fitting approach you've described (minus the rigidly attached FB - mine is from Sabco and just floats without any issues, even when stirring). There is approximately 1/4 cup of liquid left in the bottom of each when I'm done. Getting the liquid out of the 8" horizontal pipe nipple is more of a bother for me than mopping up around the locknut.

I apparently lack the technical capacity to attach a picture, so I'll point you to Flickr: DrPaulsen's Photo Stream

For the most relevant images, check out the "Brewing Bench" and "Brewing Bench 3.1" sets. I think this picture, might be the only one to show the locknut: HLT with Bottom Drain

You'd be surprised how easy it is to find stainless fittings locally. Do a google maps "search nearby" for industrial supply. There are no less than 5 places within a 25 minute drive of my house that stock threaded stainless fittings and the prices are better than Mcmaster.

Thanks for the tip. I think I may have found a place or two. I'll have to pay them a visit.

Bobby, in your first post, with the design schematic, you state "If you do NOT need the false bottom, the nipple, cap and locknut would just be replaced with a 1/2" x 3/8 hex threaded reducing bushing. Done." I've decided to use a braid, since I won't be heating the MLT. Are you saying to connect something like the braid assembly you pictured in your other thread? Or could one just put a small piece of braid over the bushing? Another, related question; is the bottom drain design that much superior to a side drain? I've already done my keggle, and could copy that exactly.

Edit: I've decided to go with the bottom drain, it's already drilled.

The only downside to a regular side drain is that if you lose siphon when the liquid is below the ball valve, you can't get the drain restarted. I just don't know of any easy way to have a bottom drain with a braid connected.

Think I'll order the 12" FB from Jaybird then. Thanks. !2" inch would be sufficient right? I'm using the BK as a grant to pump from, not recirculating directly from the MLT.

Reelale said:

Ah, I see that now. I'm guessing the weight of the grist wouldn't hold it tight enough? I do very little stirring at mash-in, and then none during recirculation.

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Bobby_M said:

I wouldn't trust a FB to stay put if you stir at all.

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Reelale has asked a few questions in the last couple of days so I thought I would answer 1 here... I used to use the 12" in my bottom drain tippy dump MLT. I did this for years and I stir like a mad man several times in the mash... I haven't ever had my 12" false bottom move on me. You have to really get in there with your paddle and pry like mad to try and move the thing. Even then you are going to have a hard time getting the thing to go anywhere. Lets just say it did move, Where is it gonna go? up the side? aint gonna happen! slide around and not be over your drain? NOPE! can't happen. a 12" only has 1.5" that it can move either way and it is still going to seal on the bottom of the kettle if it even could go anywhere...Like I said I used a 12" for years without ever having the FB fail or move in any way...
I moved up to the 15" hinged version a few years ago and really like the efficiency I gained from it (about 5-7%) and the fact that if I want to direct fire I can (and do from time to time) I also like how fast I can drain without sticking a mash, never stuck one before but I drained a bit slower than I do now. The 12" is a great FB and will last forever and work killer... . Hope that helps.

Cheers
Jay

Jay would know better than me since he's actually had a false bottom with no hold down. With that disclaimer, I'd still use something to hold it centered and secure. That's just me and it may be totally irrational.

I'm gonna try the 13" (I didn't even know they existed until Jay told me) size alone. If it doesn't work, I can always drill a hole and use Bobby's design. I'm thinking that with the thin mash of a no-sparge, and the minimal stirrring, it should work. Thanks everyone for your input.

I'm planning a 2 vessel electric brewery, and I like the idea of bottom drain keggles for the MLT and the BK. I would like the BK drain to be "filtered" to a finer degree than a FB normally could accomplish on it's own.

I was wondering if placing a splatter screen below a FB in a electric BK would be a practical solution for capturing hot break, and possibly pellet hops.