Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
This...I'm drinking both recently but they are so distinctly different. I really enjoy SA oktoberfest and pick up a single here and there when I'm beer shopping. But its nothing like the German style
I must brew a Sam Adams Octoberfest clone ASAP! Recipe Help!
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This...I'm drinking both recently but they are so distinctly different. I really enjoy SA oktoberfest and pick up a single here and there when I'm beer shopping. But its nothing like the German style
Having the last name as Maierhofer - it was pretty tough to grow up and not be deluged with german beer. =;> We drank Spaten, Paulaner, etc... and even Dinkel Aker out of those small barrels - but the one we drank the most of was Spaten - all their varieties - even been to Munich and gotten to go their brewery tour more than a few times.
I agree - German beer is almost always lighter in color and more balanced hops vs malt when you compare it to the American craft brews now. I just have to say that I like this beer - the SA Octoberfest Lager - and really want to have lots of it in my fridge as a main stay item.
I have attached my recipe just to show you guys what I built. As this is my first - I would love some input!
I think SA has more sweetness and less vienna/munich. Maybe 1# of crystal 20?
this is from the webpage
Also found this
and this:
ALso not a water expert, but that is a lot of bicarbonate. Certainly wouldn't mash with it.
Keep the carbonation level low.
An interesting read on creating "toffee" like flavor:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/need-help-toffee-flavor-mild-142326/
http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?10332-Toffee-flavor
this is from the webpage
Also found this
and this:
ALso not a water expert, but that is a lot of bicarbonate. Certainly wouldn't mash with it.
Keep the carbonation level low.
An interesting read on creating "toffee" like flavor:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/need-help-toffee-flavor-mild-142326/
http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?10332-Toffee-flavor
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry if I came across as trying to persuade anyone one way or the other. I agree, SA Oktoberfest is really good and I do enjoy it myself. In fact i've got a keg of it right now that's very close to it. The only big difference between your recipe and mine is I used Munich 10L instead of 15L. I did do a decoction mash however and picked up a lot of color from that. I would suggest if you are not doing a decoction then stick to the darker munich.
The deciding factor will be how you ferment and condition the beer. I see you have lager yeast selected which is great, but what's your fermentation schedule going to be like? At 5 days I'll ramp up the temp from 50 to 60 for a D-Rest for three days, but I don't let the calendar dictate the schedule. After 3 days of the D-rest i'll do a forced diacetyl test. If it's not clan i'll let it go another three days and repeat the process. Last time It seemed the diacetyl just wasn't clearing so I ramped the temp up to 68 for four days. It was clean after that. However I've also read articles by the BreauKeiser explaining a lager doesn't even really need a D-Rest, given enough time.
Sorry, i'm rambling. My point is lager's of any style can be great given a plan.
wow - thank you!! Those quotes are great.
Ok - I will now add about .50 of Crystal 40 I have lying around from BSG which I got at my beer club meeting a month ago. I knew it would come in handy one of these days...lol
holy shmokes - that IS a lot of Bicarbonate - just picked that profile because it said Dark Lager but I am truly a LOT lower than that - the Ward test said I am at 67 for HCO3 and 65 for Total Alkalinity.
I am going to read that Toffee discussion later on tonight after I have had time to wash my yeast from my latest IPA I just moved today out of the keg I ferment in... I am truly loving this new system of mine - ferment in 13.2g kegs and move it via Co2 to an already pressurized (5lb only) keg to serve from. Absolutely no O2 exposure at all - unless you pull the handle down on the receiving keg before you add the CO2 pressure to the keg your are transferring from which then pushes back the small amount of O2 in the line - Just learned that today unfortunately...DOH
Had a quick sec while the boil cools...
No - you are not rambling - at least in my opinion - you are helping me - nice! Thank you. Every little tidbit helps I think...
come to think of it - I really haven't worked that lager schedule aspect out yet. My pro friend said 48*F - but the brewersfriend yeast temps say higher than that. I was going to start at 48 then ramp to 60 when I need to do the d-rest. Still need to do much more homework on this subject tonight and tomorrow night...
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
The White Labs recommended temp range for WLP838 is 50-55F, so if you set your fermentation chamber to 48 the internal temp of the actively fermenting beer would probably be closer to 50-52, which is perfect. One thing for sure is you can't rush a lager. My O'Fest was good at a month in the keg, at 3 months it's awesome. The only problem is that between then and now, I only have half a keg left
The White Labs recommended temp range for WLP838 is 50-55F, so if you set your fermentation chamber to 48 the internal temp of the actively fermenting beer would probably be closer to 50-52, which is perfect. One thing for sure is you can't rush a lager. My O'Fest was good at a month in the keg, at 3 months it's awesome. The only problem is that between then and now, I only have half a keg left
Ok - that sounds perfect then. I used Mittelfruh on this first one - this is the first beer that I actually liked when it was going right into the fermentor - that is a first. Big smile - BIIIIG Smile...
The only problem I have now is that when I went to turn off my fermentor and it went ZAP! - no PID anymore - guess I put too much pressure on the back end cramp ons - it just broke right off... dang blammit sasafrassen - I am such an @$$hole for not changing out the Romex line earlier like I planned to... such an idiot... the good thing is that the fermentor is a chest freezer and not likely to lose any chill - I had planned on putting the yeast in tomorrow morning after it got down to 47.5 with the yeast - now it looks like I might get to crash the yeast slower and wait for the new PID to arrive... maybe I should order two this time? lol
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
ouch, that sucks. Could you just turn the freezer on and let it run for an hour or two to get the temp to below 50? You might need to run it a couple times a day to keep the temp down while your waiting for the replacement PID. Pitching cold isn't an issue with lager yeast, it will work much slower but off flavors aren't an issue to the best of my knowledge. Unlike ale strains that will throw off a different flavor profile or go dormant if too cold. Just a thought.
Nope - no can do - the PID is hardwired into the system... but good thing I got it's replacement tonight and it is chilling now. The problem is that I have no idea how long it is going to take to get this ~8 gallons of wort down to 48*...
Wow - I am surprised how long it takes for lager yeast to fall - it put it in a 50* fridge this afternoon around lunch and it is still not all the way compacted down... guess I got lucky with the fridge now as I still wouldn't be able to pitch it yet...
edit - back up and running last night - phew - just checked and after 13.5 hours the temp is down to 12C from 21C... almost there!
Wow - I am surprised how long it takes for lager yeast to fall - it put it in a 50* fridge this afternoon around lunch and it is still not all the way compacted down... guess I got lucky with the fridge now as I still wouldn't be able to pitch it yet...
edit - back up and running last night - phew - just checked and after 13.5 hours the temp is down to 12C from 21C... almost there!
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
sweet, let us know how it goes!
I pitched it yesterday around 3ish and it is already gurgling out the blow off tube!
I will keep you all posted here too.
I added a thread yesterday in Fermentation/Yeast:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/how-long-can-wort-last-how-long-before-i-pitch-lager-yeast-494171/
I will post there too...
I will keep you all posted here too.
I added a thread yesterday in Fermentation/Yeast:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/how-long-can-wort-last-how-long-before-i-pitch-lager-yeast-494171/
I will post there too...
in the middle of my D-rest now - brought it to 63*F over a two day period and the gurgling of the blow off was more substantial (13-16 sec between to now 5-9 sec) so timing wise it wasn't too late to do it. not going to bother this one at all - I will get my first reading when I rack to my serving keg... more later...
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
Don't skip the forced D test. It only takes an hour and might save your beer. My last lager surprised me with how long it took to clean up.
Forced d test? Not following you...
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
This test is best done when the beer is around 80% attenuated (about day 4 or 5 in the primary) but can be done at any time really.
1. Draw off two shot glasses of beer (1.5~2oz is plenty)
2. cover one glass with plastic wrap and set aside. Keep it at room temp.
3. Heat the other glass of beer to 160F. This is about 20 seconds in my microwave but your results may vary. A thermometer helps until you know how long yours take.
4. remove from microwave and immediately cover tightly with plastic wrap. Set aside and let cool to room temp, about 30 minutes. No ice water bath, just let it cool on its own.
5. After 30 minutes or so pull back the plastic on the heated sample half way and take a whiff.
6. Now do the same on the unheated (control) glass.
7. Do you smell a big difference? Is it a buttery aroma? If so you still have diacetyl precursors that the yeast still need to clean up. Let the beer sit for ~3 days and do the test again.
8. If the beers smell relatively the same (the heated beer may smell slightly stronger or maltier) then you're in the clear and can proceed to secondary and drop to lager temps.
If you're brave or just really curious you can also taste the samples, but I've never found this necessary to detect diacetyl since the buttery aroma is a dead give away. My last lager took 9 days to clean up and I ended up ramping the temp up to 68 the last three days. I once had a beer that tasted great going into the keg but then developed a pretty bad case of diacetyl. I ended up dumping the beer. I've been doing this test for all my lagers ever since and have not had any more issues.
1. Draw off two shot glasses of beer (1.5~2oz is plenty)
2. cover one glass with plastic wrap and set aside. Keep it at room temp.
3. Heat the other glass of beer to 160F. This is about 20 seconds in my microwave but your results may vary. A thermometer helps until you know how long yours take.
4. remove from microwave and immediately cover tightly with plastic wrap. Set aside and let cool to room temp, about 30 minutes. No ice water bath, just let it cool on its own.
5. After 30 minutes or so pull back the plastic on the heated sample half way and take a whiff.
6. Now do the same on the unheated (control) glass.
7. Do you smell a big difference? Is it a buttery aroma? If so you still have diacetyl precursors that the yeast still need to clean up. Let the beer sit for ~3 days and do the test again.
8. If the beers smell relatively the same (the heated beer may smell slightly stronger or maltier) then you're in the clear and can proceed to secondary and drop to lager temps.
If you're brave or just really curious you can also taste the samples, but I've never found this necessary to detect diacetyl since the buttery aroma is a dead give away. My last lager took 9 days to clean up and I ended up ramping the temp up to 68 the last three days. I once had a beer that tasted great going into the keg but then developed a pretty bad case of diacetyl. I ended up dumping the beer. I've been doing this test for all my lagers ever since and have not had any more issues.
wow - ty - that was detailed and great instruction
sorry for the delay all - i did rotater cuff and separated shoulder reconstruction surgery on the 22nd so i have laying low... one handed typing sux.
I did manage to get this lager off the yeast finally tho... doing a transfer with my off hand was a lot harder than i first thought lol
my final reading was 1.018 from a 1.063 yielding 5.91%abv
the clarity of this lager was incredible - crystal clean rack to primary serv keg.
it tasted great going into the keg too!
thanks to JDub - i did the forced test and picked up a faint difference from control - i am willing to let this one go as i forced O2 into this thing right before i pitched the yeast and i consider this a first batch a test anyway. i have never tasted diacetyl yet - curious to see what happens. it took 2 days to get it to 63 and i let it sit for 4 days before taking 2 days down to cold crash levels then two days crash and racked.
i started my 3 week lager cycle now and will give you more as i progress...
thanks again JDub!
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about your shoulder. Hopefully your recovery is quick...there's beer to brew! The nice thing abut lagers is they can sit in secondary for a long time and only get better with age. Cheers! 
Sorry to hear about your shoulder. Hopefully your recovery is quick...there's beer to brew! The nice thing abut lagers is they can sit in secondary for a long time and only get better with age. Cheers!
ty man - me too!
true!!
i think i found a new brew buddy locally too who can help me brew more taking someone from extract to full grain is fun muhahahhah
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
Good deal. I joined a homebrew club last month and have already met some cool people. It's awesome connecting with like minded people in real life. I know we are way off topic and I apologize to the original thread starter; hopefully your O'Fest turned out awesome.
Yes I agree on that one too - sorry for hijacking the thread Madbird!
I will post only what my final taste is and any additions to my recipe that can come up with...
I will post only what my final taste is and any additions to my recipe that can come up with...
ding ding ding - you were right on target on that first call imho
i just couldn't help myself anymore... just had to try it even tho it is only day 5 of my lagering/conditioning phase and only two days of pressure. the body just isnt there like the SA version also mine ends with almost a flowery ending - hmmm thinking of adding a 1# of crystal 20 or half a # of a crystal 40 on my next try...
check out the clarity side by side - yes mine is on the right
edit: sorry - double post
Nice. I think all of SA beers have a very unique, but common taste to them. Either the yeast or the water or some type of additive. Probably not the yeast because it's common in both the ales and lagers. Probably not the water because it doesn't taste like common brewing salts. Perhaps process. High mash temp that finishes dry somehow? Could be ingredients, but I am not thinking so.
So I just kicked the keg of my very first lager - the SA Oktoberfest clone attempt #1 - boy that went fast. Gotta say it was tough not to drink this one! Only 50 days since i brewed it lol. Oh well - i got another 10gal sitting at week two on attempt #2. The second batch i included 1# crystal 10 to push it more malty forward while also increasing the ibu to 22 now... we will see.
JayDubWill
Well-Known Member
That's the problems with lagers, they take so long to make and go down waaay to fast. I've pretty much settled on doing back to back batches whenever I do a lager now.
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