Speidel Braumeister (brewmaster)

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I know this is kind of off topic (sorry), but, can anybody tell me what's the depth of the kettle on the 50L braumeister?

Thanks in advance. :)
 
waynemil said:
Sorry for the sideways photos. I took on my Iphone.
Click to expand...

try the free adobe PS express app. Does rotate and crop etc. right on the iPhone.
 
Wow what a great thread. I was looking to go all electric but I'm not handy and I like the temp set point controller idea. The small foot print is key for me, as I dont have a lot of room to store something like a BrewMagic or Brewmation

I've been researching it for months but it's great hear good feedback.

Now the question is Pulling the trigger on 50l model and also getting the short malt pipe.

Is it possible to do a Double IPA on the 50l system. I can't tell how much grain, in weight, the malt pipe(s) will hold.
 
@wreals As I understand from one of the Norwegian forums, one method to overcome the inherent capacity limits of the braumeister is to mash twice. The first mash uses half the grain bill and proceeds as normal. After the first mash is complete, remove the malt pipe and empty the spent grain, refill the malt pipe with the remainder of your grain add some top off water and mash in the wort already produced. Finally you can increase the efficiency with a sparge if needed. (Remember I'm getting these directions off of a translated Norwegian site, I have not tried this method myself, YMMV.)

For me personally, I'm interested in brewing beers under 5.5 ABV, when I want a big beer I have litterally hundreds of options at the various pubs and bottle shops in Seattle. What is hard to find are tasty session beers, why is it so hard (for commercial brewers) to create an oatmeal stout at 5% or a pale ale at 4.2%?
 
You could also just make less gallons right? So instead of 10 gallons of a IIPA, you would end up with 6-8?? I used 22.5#'s this past brew day and still had several inches of space between the top of the grain and top of the malt pipe.

The idea marzi suggests seems the best though. Hadn't heard of that one yet!
 
Yambor44 said:
You could also just make less gallons right? So instead of 10 gallons of a IIPA, you would end up with 6-8?? I used 22.5#'s this past brew day and still had several inches of space between the top of the grain and top of the malt pipe.

The idea marzi suggests seems the best though. Hadn't heard of that one yet!
Click to expand...

Ahh ok, that makes sense. I most make session ales these days but it's good to know that there is flexibility.
 
My Pleasure,
Yes, it was so clear--, and when I saw the bag at the homebrew store I could not resist. Although I thought it would save a lot of cleanup time too, that was really not the case, because it took a lot of rinsing to get all the grains out. I think I will also go with the splatter screen idea everyone is doing for the next batch. I think I have been getting a little lower efficiencies because I have not been stirring. When I had the brewmagic, they said that was a no-no or it would affect repeatability. I have been to lazy to stir during the 2 minute pump pauses and Thorsten from Morebeer4you says he does not do it. I think a compromise for me in the future will be, after I lift the malt pipe up, I will give it a good stir and then just pour about 2 liters over the grain to see what happens. If anyone has any suggestions let me know.

Thanks,

Wayne


Yambor44 said:
Wayne,

Thanks for the pics of the BIAB method. Looks like a nice batch you got there!
Click to expand...
 
waynemil said:
My Pleasure,
Yes, it was so clear--, and when I saw the bag at the homebrew store I could not resist. Although I thought it would save a lot of cleanup time too, that was really not the case, because it took a lot of rinsing to get all the grains out. I think I will also go with the splatter screen idea everyone is doing for the next batch. I think I have been getting a little lower efficiencies because I have not been stirring. When I had the brewmagic, they said that was a no-no or it would affect repeatability. I have been to lazy to stir during the 2 minute pump pauses and Thorsten from Morebeer4you says he does not do it. I think a compromise for me in the future will be, after I lift the malt pipe up, I will give it a good stir and then just pour about 2 liters over the grain to see what happens. If anyone has any suggestions let me know.

Thanks,

Wayne
Click to expand...

Hi,
I wouldn't stir the grains just before sparging / pouring water over them. That sounds like a recipe for unclear wort.

Pause to stir or not to... I have never done it and I get consistent pre-boil efficiencies it the high 80's. Good enough for me to not start stirring. I allways sparge, though.
 
If you want to stir the grains, do it half way thru your mash. Also, if you are going to "sparge" by taking wort from the bottom of the kettle and pouring it back to the top, make sure you have the malt pipe elevated into it's draining position.
 
Will "sparging" or recirculating by pouring wort from the bottom of the kettle over the grains contribute anything? Efficiency-wise I don't think so, as the wort have allready been recirkulated by the machine and the stuff you recirculate will have the same concentration as the wort contained within the grain. You might make clearer wort,though.
 
beefeater said:
Will "sparging" or recirculating by pouring wort from the bottom of the kettle over the grains contribute anything? Efficiency-wise I don't think so, as the wort have allready been recirkulated by the machine and the stuff you recirculate will have the same concentration as the wort contained within the grain. You might make clearer wort,though.
Click to expand...

Sparging with new water will increase efficiency for sure, but you are correct to say that recirculating or vourlafing will likely not increase efficiency too much.
 
Thank you Yambor. You da man..:mug:

Edit: Now, by my calculations, that means the kettle has a total capacity of almost 28 gallons...:eek:
Am I messing up here?
 
Inodoro_Pereyra said:
Thank you Yambor. You da man..:mug:

Edit: Now, by my calculations, that means the kettle has a total capacity of almost 28 gallons...:eek:
Am I messing up here?
Click to expand...

Not sure. I am thinking (going off memory here) that the very top line marking on the center post is 14.5 gallons. If that is correct than I bet the total capacity would be close to your calculations. If no one has done it by the time I get back from vacation, I'll add a gallon at a time and check all of the markings.
 
@Inodoro_Pereyra: I got the same calculations and, frankly, it isn't surprising that the capacity is so large. The system is designed to hold more or less all the water and grain you need to brew with. So, if you're brewing a nice sessionable brown ale with a target OG of 1.044 then you'd need to following:

4.5 gallons volume of 17lbs of grain @ 0.269 gallons per pound of crushed malt
2.5 gallons for grain absorption @ 0.15 gallons per pound
1 gallon for evaporative loss @ 7.5% an hour
0.5 gallons for shrinkage due to cooling @ 4%
0.5 gallons loss for trub and deadspace in the kettle
13 gallons what you hope to end up in the fermentor

There's also the volume displaced by the malt pipe and elements, however when the pump is in use then there's some volume in the plumbing, so I'm going to call it a wash.

22 gallons of capacity needed to brew a small(ish) beer. On the upside, once you pull out that malt pipe, you'll have tons of head space to mitigate the risk of boil overs.
 
Back from a daytrip to Plzen today visiting the Urquell brewery.
That inspired me to do a mash with pauses for removing and boiling some grains to add back to get some decoction flavors / caramellization.
More complicated than necessary but I think it can be done. And it will be impossible to get the right colour with only pilsner malt without decocting.

The beer we were sampling at the end of that tour was awesome! unfiltered and unpasteurized directly from wooden barrels. Fermented at 5 degrees C.. Need to buy another fridge too..
 
rnarzisi said:
@Inodoro_Pereyra: I got the same calculations and, frankly, it isn't surprising that the capacity is so large. The system is designed to hold more or less all the water and grain you need to brew with. So, if you're brewing a nice sessionable brown ale with a target OG of 1.044 then you'd need to following:

4.5 gallons volume of 17lbs of grain @ 0.269 gallons per pound of crushed malt
2.5 gallons for grain absorption @ 0.15 gallons per pound
1 gallon for evaporative loss @ 7.5% an hour
0.5 gallons for shrinkage due to cooling @ 4%
0.5 gallons loss for trub and deadspace in the kettle
13 gallons what you hope to end up in the fermentor

There's also the volume displaced by the malt pipe and elements, however when the pump is in use then there's some volume in the plumbing, so I'm going to call it a wash.

22 gallons of capacity needed to brew a small(ish) beer. On the upside, once you pull out that malt pipe, you'll have tons of head space to mitigate the risk of boil overs.
Click to expand...

I can't thank you enough for posting that data. You wouldn't believe how long I've been looking for it.
I've been designing (still in my head) a similar system to the BM, trying to improve on what I see as the BM's issues. That kind of information will let me move forward that much faster. Thanks again.:mug:
 
What are the issues with the BM that you'd be addressing with your homebuilt system? The only two things I could see changing would be adding bigger elements and sticking a BCS-460 of it so I could control it from a laptop and not have to fiddle with the small control panel. Other than those two items, I'm pretty impressed with the tool as it is.
 
rnarzisi said:
What are the issues with the BM that you'd be addressing with your homebuilt system? The only two things I could see changing would be adding bigger elements and sticking a BCS-460 of it so I could control it from a laptop and not have to fiddle with the small control panel. Other than those two items, I'm pretty impressed with the tool as it is.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm impressed too, not saying it's not good.
The BCS is also one of the things I was thinking about, not only to control the process from a laptop, but also to fully automate it.

But also, what I've seen so far (from my totally uninformed point of view. Remember: not only I've never seen a BM personally, but I'm also not a brewer yet) is:

  • Lack of insulation.
  • Lack of automatic water level detection.
  • Lack of automatic hops addition
  • Lots of stuff inside the kettle (lots of nooks and crannies that can harbor bacteria in the future).
  • Having to stir the grain manually.
  • Having to lift the malt pipe full of hot liquid off the kettle.
  • Having the malt pipe inside the kettle at all.
  • Having to modify the pickup tube, to get all the wort off the kettle.
  • The filter issue (from my point of view, it's unacceptable to pay 3 grand for a machine, to have to modify it at the first use).
  • Having to deal with lose parts (like the butterfly nut that holds the malt pipe) inside a vat full of hot wort.
  • The need to sparge manually, if you choose to do so.
  • The need for an immersion chiller.

Those are, off the top of my head, the issues I see so far. I want to make a machine that I can, after loading the grains and hops, control from my PC, right until the moment the wort is waiting for me inside the fermenter.
Of course, so far, there's only 2 things I'm lacking to get that design going (brewing experience and money ;)), but I'm working on it.
 
Inodoro_Pereyra said:
Oh, I'm impressed too, not saying it's not good.
The BCS is also one of the things I was thinking about, not only to control the process from a laptop, but also to fully automate it.

But also, what I've seen so far (from my totally uninformed point of view. Remember: not only I've never seen a BM personally, but I'm also not a brewer yet) is:

  • Lack of insulation.

    You can buy the insulating jacket. The 50 probably doesn't need it.

  • Lack of automatic water level detection.

    Use a metering stick. For the 20 1cm is close enough to 1 liter. On the 50 you'll have to do some math.

  • Lack of automatic hops addition

    True...

  • Lots of stuff inside the kettle (lots of nooks and crannies that can harbor bacteria in the future).

    Not an issue as you boil everything.

  • Having to stir the grain manually.

    You don't have to!

  • Having to lift the malt pipe full of hot liquid off the kettle.

    True.

  • Having the malt pipe inside the kettle at all.

    That's the whole point with this design.

  • Having to modify the pickup tube, to get all the wort off the kettle.

    True.

  • The filter issue (from my point of view, it's unacceptable to pay 3 grand for a machine, to have to modify it at the first use).

    Don't have to. Lots of folk use it as is but better screens would be an improvement. Current production 20's ship with improved stainless filters. I'm sure 50's are to follow.

  • Having to deal with lose parts (like the butterfly nut that holds the malt pipe) inside a vat full of hot wort.

    Hard to come up with something simpler..

  • The need to sparge manually, if you choose to do so.

    You can choose to. No need at all. You get consistent results without sparging. You get higher efficiency with sparging.

  • The need for an immersion chiller.

    .. or any other sort of chiller.

If you can build a machine that can automate or simplify everything in this list I'll be first in line ordering one!

Cheers!
Click to expand...
 
I'm pretty sure that one inch is approximately 1.35 gallons on the 50L without the malt pipe in place of course.

<soapbox> No doubt this would be a sweet starter system. I just don't think you'd appreciate it as much without having gone through the coolers, manual lifting, infusion guestimates and everything else that goes into homebrewing. It would be like getting a brand new Porsche Turbo S as your first car, sure it is awesome, but having never had a diesel Rabbit you probably don't know just how awesome it is. </soapbox>

<sage advice> If you are going to design your own system, I'd recommend brewing on a friends setup a few times. Things that sound good on forums or look perfect on paper tend to not run as smoothly in real life. </sage advice>
 
beefeater said:
  • Lack of insulation.
    You can buy the insulating jacket. The 50 probably doesn't need it.
    Maybe, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit from having it.
  • Lack of automatic water level detection.
    Use a metering stick. For the 20 1cm is close enough to 1 liter. On the 50 you'll have to do some math.
    It's not about finding a way to know how much water I have. I don't want to have to babysit the system while I'm adding the water. I want it to stop automatically when it gets to the right level.
  • Lots of stuff inside the kettle (lots of nooks and crannies that can harbor bacteria in the future).
    Not an issue as you boil everything.
    Infection from the bacteria is not an issue. But producing off flavors could be.
  • Having to stir the grain manually.
    You don't have to!
    I know. But if I want to, I have to do it manually.
  • Having the malt pipe inside the kettle at all.
    That's the whole point with this design.
    What would be the advantage of it?
  • Having to deal with lose parts (like the butterfly nut that holds the malt pipe) inside a vat full of hot wort.
    Hard to come up with something simpler..
    You sure?;)
  • The need for an immersion chiller.
    .. or any other sort of chiller.
    Yup. That's something I don't want to deal with.

If you can build a machine that can automate or simplify everything in this list I'll be first in line ordering one!

:D:DOk, I'll let you know...:D:D
Click to expand...

rnarzisi said:
<soapbox> No doubt this would be a sweet starter system. I just don't think you'd appreciate it as much without having gone through the coolers, manual lifting, infusion guestimates and everything else that goes into homebrewing. It would be like getting a brand new Porsche Turbo S as your first car, sure it is awesome, but having never had a diesel Rabbit you probably don't know just how awesome it is. </soapbox>
Click to expand...

Like I said, I'm not saying it's a bad system. I used it as a starting point for my design because I like it. I just enjoy building things a lot, and this is a great excuse to get dirty...

rnarzisi said:
<sage advice> If you are going to design your own system, I'd recommend brewing on a friends setup a few times. Things that sound good on forums or look perfect on paper tend to not run as smoothly in real life. </sage advice>
Click to expand...

Yep. Happened to me many more times than I'd care to remember. That's why I'm reading everything I can about it.:mug:
 
Received my 20l Braumeister last week and had "First Brew" on Sunday.

Went with the 70200x45 from International Configurations for power. A little pricey but nice - gives me GFI, a switched outlet and no need to mod the cord.

Brewed in the kitchen which I haven't done since my extract days. So nice to be indoors (it rained all day) with a sink and hot water. Day went without a hitch. Hit ~80% efficiency with a quick sparge after lifting the malt pipe, no stirring just poured over the top plate. Going to try including the sparge water in the initial mix and see what that gets me.

Purchased the insulating jacket and copper hood based on comments that the heating on the 20l unit is a little anemic. Jacket is a _tight_ fit but nicely made. The copper hood is built like a brick - really thick gauge copper. With both in place I got a really solid rolling boil. Measured the max heat output at 1 degree C per minute (1.8F/min) with 25 liters.

I'm very impressed and one happy camper. Overall the most pleasant brew session I have had in years.

-Chris
 
Congrats Chris. It's great to have another BM brewer to add to our knowledge base. Finally kegged my first BM batch, forced carbonated it and had my first tasting. Came out excellent if I may say so myself. I'm still contemplating the copper hood. I built a 1500W heatstick and can get a vigorous boil, but don't like sticking 120v into a pot of liquid with a handheld appliance. I've been getting a solid 84% efficiency. This is much better than I was getting with my old system. I'm completely satisfied with my purchase, and being able to use different step mashing schedules is great.
 
Inodoro_Pereyra said:
Like I said, I'm not saying it's a bad system. I used it as a starting point for my design because I like it. I just enjoy building things a lot, and this is a great excuse to get dirty...
<snip> :
Click to expand...

OK, I finally think I understand where you're coming from. For a while, it just seemed like you were just trying to come up with reasons not to buy the BM. But since you're a DIYer (which I am pretty much.....not, although there have been exceptions), that's a different story.

The way I look at it is this. You go to the site of the guy in Europe who cloned the BM, he gives no figures as to how much money he's got in this thing. You go to any number of threads on this forum featuring people's electric brewery builds, unless they're getting a lot of free stuff or the equivalent, they're going to have more than $3K in a 10 gal. system, and they have to build it themselves.

As an example, Kai's control panel for The Electric Brewery is $2K by itself (the cost of the 20l BM!), and at least one guy chimed in and said he had that much in his DIY following Kai's plans.

So- leaving out things on the your list that involve preference (auto hop addition, sparging, dip tubes, etc.), I conclude that I'm not going to be able to go DIY and undercut the BM, even given the exchange rate on the Euro. If I want to design and retrofit various bells & whistles on the BM, I'm still ahead financially in the original purchase.

If you DO decide to go DIY on a similar design of your own, please establish a thread here on HBT. :)
 
rico567 said:
OK, I finally think I understand where you're coming from. For a while, it just seemed like you were just trying to come up with reasons not to buy the BM.
Click to expand...

:D Oh, believe me: I already have a GREAT reason not to by the BM, right here in my wallet...:D:D

My intention was never to imply the BM wasn't good. On the contrary, I think it's a great design, and I absolutely agree with you that. for the money, you probably can't get any better than that, even if you diy.

Right not, my design is nothing more than a pipe dream. I don't have the money to buy grain to brew on my stovetop, let alone to build anything. But, if I do get the funds in the future, I'd be very surprised if I could finish my design for less than $5-6K. It was never intended to compete with the BM.

But we'll see. Right now I have more urgent issues to take care of (like getting a job, and eventually moving out of Miami), and then, to start working on it. But I don't expect to have anything for at least a year, and that's pushing it.
 
Yambor44 said:
Did everyone get to see this also from the Aussie site?

Click to expand...

Yay I'm famous or at least my sketch is :)

I reverse engineered the braumeister a few years ago from photos on the net before they were available in Oz when my mate Rob was developing HABS his arduino based automated brew system but my plans to build one never eventuated and I gave up on brewing. Anyway I have decided to get back on the horse and started researching again so I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions as the SNR on this board seems to be a lot better than the aussiehomebrewer site.
 
Stainless steel filter cloths are now available for both the 20 and 50 liter.

The local norwegian dealer just posted them on his website. I ordered a pair two minutes ago. The price wasn't bad. Less than the original plastic ones.

So I guess your US dealer can order them too!
 
beefeater said:
Stainless steel filter cloths are now available for both the 20 and 50 liter.

The local norwegian dealer just posted them on his website. I ordered a pair two minutes ago. The price wasn't bad. Less than the original plastic ones.

So I guess your US dealer can order them too!
Click to expand...

Hmmm. I just received this email from my state side dealer this past Tuesday after asking about the availability of the screen filters:

Rob,

Sorry. I thought I have had sent you an email already.
Ralf in Germany will try to send one but this were custom made and NOT for sale.
They found out that they are not working great and also the sides are not waved.
They just cut out a circle from a stainless steel mash wire to see if it was better.
Results were not good.

Ralf will find out if he can send some to me or not. I will let you know.

Thanks
Thorsten

I just sent another email about your post.

Thanks.

Rob
 
Hi all, the start of my questions!

Does anyone with a 50L system know the wattage of each element and roughly how long each one is if was unrolled? I am trying to work out what is the watt density of the elements, are they both 1600W each to make 3200W total or is the smaller one 2000W (the same as the 20L version) and the larger one 1200W. There is a post on the Aussie home brewer site but it is incorrect as it states there is only one element in the 50L system but all photographs I have seen show two elements.

Also is this the right thread for posts about a "home brewed braumeister" or should they go somewhere else?
 
ausdb, I personally think a new thread about a DIY braumeister should be started. Definitely use this thread as a resource to glean information (that is what I am doing), but I feel a new thread will help to keep it free from "clutter" for those just interested in the impressions, usage, etc. of "official" braumeisters. Just my $.02

:mug:
 

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