Idk,my star-san in tap water is a little bit cloudy,just not a lot. & I filter mine now & then. Never an infection.
ALL beers - extract AND all grain taste bad. Please help me with new suggestions
- Thread starter TheSlash
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OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Give me something here! lol.
Its quite cloudy....
/shrug I feel I am quite clean. I know people that I wouldn't eat a thing out of their house, yet somehow they can still make beer there...
Hate to think it's sanitation as I don't know how much more I can clean stuff!
If you have some PH test strips,you can check it to see if it's 3 or lower. Strip should be bright red.
OP
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TheSlash
Well-Known Member
Ordered strips...
VERY interesting thing happened tonight though...
We went out to eat at a pretty classy restaurant tonight, and noticed the chefs also brew their own beer in small batches for the place.. I ordered an amber ale, and at first sip it was pretty good. Not great, but drinkable. As it sat and warmed a bit it developed the exact same off flavor I am getting on my beers. That warmish, almost over carbed "bite" not pleasant.
Then a gentleman at the table next to me was asked for his drink order and the waitress suggested an amber ale because they brew their own. He said eehhh I had one last time and it wasn't really anything I cared for. Do you have any 2hearted? She said no and offered him a sample of the amber, which he tried and did not like either.
Made me feel better that I have tasted this on someone else's brew, and they are charging 4.50 a glass. I'm dumping mine lol.
So something these chefs are doing, is something I'm doing wrong also.
My girlfriend got their pumpkin ale, and that I must say was pretty decent. No off flavor, slight spice.
Here is what they make and ingredients... Funny thing is on the amber, I've never even used those hops.
http://www.bravokalamazoo.com/bravo/beer.php
I just read through this thread and I must say it is quite interesting (not that I'm taking pleasure from your frustrations, but the wanna-be Sherlock in me wants to know what the culprit(s) is/are). The problem with trying to deduce the problem is that while any of the factors (yeast/ferm temps/oxygen/sanitization/trub) previously mentioned could be the culprit, any one of them could also be red herrings that send you on a wild goose chase. Unfortunately trial and error seems to be the only way you will find out your problem.
Having said that, here are a few things that you may want to try. The first thing I would suggest is to try using a turkey fryer to do your boil instead of electric. I'm not saying that using a stove top to do your boil creates bad/inferior beer (and I know there are plenty of people who make perfectly awesome stove top beer) but it is another variable that could be changed in your brewing process to see if it has any effect on your final product. I got my banjo burner for 70 bucks and then paid another 20 for a canister of natural gas. I know this is getting expensive for you but if you could spare another 100 bucks you could be going all gas and speeding up your boil process, plus it would also find/eliminate a potential culprit in your process. I know the Two Hearted Ale wort was not made on your stovetop, but then again it was suffering from something different than the flavor you were talking about in your first post.
Another option would be to bring your equip to a friend's house and brew/ferment there.. although I know that would be a pita to move equipment and also would be hard to watch ferm temps when you're not there.. but that may eliminate the question of there being an unwanted house germ/yeast/flavor that is at your residence and is somehow ruining your batches. I would only try this as a last resort though.
Speaking of getting rid of germs/bacteria/wild yeasts, sometimes (and you probably know this but thought I would mention this anyways) home brewers sometimes sanitize their equip by throwing them in an oven/autoclave for an hour at high temps.. obviously not possible for all your equip but might kill off any beasties that might be impervious to your current sanitizing procedures.
Some off the wall suggestions, I know, but thought I would throw them out there. Also, I don't remember if you alluded to this, but have you tried using both liquid/dry extracts and have there been any noticeable differences between the two?
On a side note I went to the restaurant link you posted where they brew their own beer and couldn't help but chuckle when I read this:
"We never use additives or extracts. Our slow fermentation and use of all grains create the natural malt flavors of high-quality beers. Our beers have refreshing and crisp flavors which our Chef's enjoy pairing with our menu offerings."
Not to dredge up the all-grain/extract debate here but I find it funny that they are implying that you cannot get "natural malt flavors" or "high-quality" out of extract. As if quality malt extract was made of something other than natural malted barley, lol.
Good luck!
Having said that, here are a few things that you may want to try. The first thing I would suggest is to try using a turkey fryer to do your boil instead of electric. I'm not saying that using a stove top to do your boil creates bad/inferior beer (and I know there are plenty of people who make perfectly awesome stove top beer) but it is another variable that could be changed in your brewing process to see if it has any effect on your final product. I got my banjo burner for 70 bucks and then paid another 20 for a canister of natural gas. I know this is getting expensive for you but if you could spare another 100 bucks you could be going all gas and speeding up your boil process, plus it would also find/eliminate a potential culprit in your process. I know the Two Hearted Ale wort was not made on your stovetop, but then again it was suffering from something different than the flavor you were talking about in your first post.
Another option would be to bring your equip to a friend's house and brew/ferment there.. although I know that would be a pita to move equipment and also would be hard to watch ferm temps when you're not there.. but that may eliminate the question of there being an unwanted house germ/yeast/flavor that is at your residence and is somehow ruining your batches. I would only try this as a last resort though.
Speaking of getting rid of germs/bacteria/wild yeasts, sometimes (and you probably know this but thought I would mention this anyways) home brewers sometimes sanitize their equip by throwing them in an oven/autoclave for an hour at high temps.. obviously not possible for all your equip but might kill off any beasties that might be impervious to your current sanitizing procedures.
Some off the wall suggestions, I know, but thought I would throw them out there. Also, I don't remember if you alluded to this, but have you tried using both liquid/dry extracts and have there been any noticeable differences between the two?
On a side note I went to the restaurant link you posted where they brew their own beer and couldn't help but chuckle when I read this:
"We never use additives or extracts. Our slow fermentation and use of all grains create the natural malt flavors of high-quality beers. Our beers have refreshing and crisp flavors which our Chef's enjoy pairing with our menu offerings."
Not to dredge up the all-grain/extract debate here but I find it funny that they are implying that you cannot get "natural malt flavors" or "high-quality" out of extract. As if quality malt extract was made of something other than natural malted barley, lol.
Good luck!
OP
OP
TheSlash
Well-Known Member
^^ Nice post. I have some to update that goes along with you here...
I went back to the absolute basics. I used a different BK, did the 3 pound light DME and Cascade hops. A simple 50ish IBU 5.2 ABV brew. No steeping, no partial mash, simple. This was to rule out gear and processes.
I did a stovetop 2.5 gallon batch and used 1 heatstick to help out. I chilled in an ice bath, threw into a new glass carboy and used Notty hydrated. I did aerate with o2 and put it in my ferm chamber at 64 for 10 days. Raised it to 68 for 4 days and kegged.
I must say I have made my first decent beer lol. I did not detect any off flavor. First batch ever without this off flavor. And it was a pretty hoppy beer too.
With this, the only major thing I know I changed was mixing my starsan in distilled water instead of my tap water. I think I have always made it with tap. It always turns very cloudy and I read that means it is being neutralized. So it could have been an unclean fermentation because I wasn't sanitizing very well. Thinking I was, I tried a ton of other things.
So I plan to do another extract this coming week, and I will be steeping some and adding my wort chiller. Everything else the same. Gotta narrow this down!
The other thing I can think of is I only let it sit on the trub 14 days, normally mine go 30-60 days.. But so many people do that with break and all I can't see that being it.
Of all the things I do, I learned most from the general masses here. If 100 people said they just dump it all in the fermenter, I tend to believe that isn't a common cause of off flavors.
The things I could have easily been doing wrong, is sanitizing with inactive sanitizer lol, not soaking/cleaning things as deep as I needed to, etc.
Thanks so far guys! I will update this as I learn more.
P.S. Odd you replied tonight because I literally just got done with my first glass.
Their slow fermentation, and use of all grains comment cracked me up to. And what's wrong with additives??
I went back to the absolute basics. I used a different BK, did the 3 pound light DME and Cascade hops. A simple 50ish IBU 5.2 ABV brew. No steeping, no partial mash, simple. This was to rule out gear and processes.
I did a stovetop 2.5 gallon batch and used 1 heatstick to help out. I chilled in an ice bath, threw into a new glass carboy and used Notty hydrated. I did aerate with o2 and put it in my ferm chamber at 64 for 10 days. Raised it to 68 for 4 days and kegged.
I must say I have made my first decent beer lol. I did not detect any off flavor. First batch ever without this off flavor. And it was a pretty hoppy beer too.
With this, the only major thing I know I changed was mixing my starsan in distilled water instead of my tap water. I think I have always made it with tap. It always turns very cloudy and I read that means it is being neutralized. So it could have been an unclean fermentation because I wasn't sanitizing very well. Thinking I was, I tried a ton of other things.
So I plan to do another extract this coming week, and I will be steeping some and adding my wort chiller. Everything else the same. Gotta narrow this down!
The other thing I can think of is I only let it sit on the trub 14 days, normally mine go 30-60 days.. But so many people do that with break and all I can't see that being it.
Of all the things I do, I learned most from the general masses here. If 100 people said they just dump it all in the fermenter, I tend to believe that isn't a common cause of off flavors.
The things I could have easily been doing wrong, is sanitizing with inactive sanitizer lol, not soaking/cleaning things as deep as I needed to, etc.
Thanks so far guys! I will update this as I learn more.
P.S. Odd you replied tonight because I literally just got done with my first glass.
Their slow fermentation, and use of all grains comment cracked me up to. And what's wrong with additives??
TheSlash: Congratulations on your latest beer turning out 'odd flavor' free! I think the fact that you decided to go back to square one and make a simple, no frills batch was a great idea. You now know that at least the replacement equipment you used can brew an untainted batch. And, as you said, you can continue to add more and more complexity to your brew process until you find the culprit. If you already corrected what was wrong and don't have any further off flavors in your beer then that would be a plus too (although It would still be more satisfying to know what was causing it all this time).
In any case, thanks for letting us know how this experimental batch turned out. Hopefully all will go well when you add steeping grains and your wort chiller to the process. I was going to say that my Star San clouds up as well and I use tap water too, so I may follow in your footsteps and use distilled water for sanitizing as well. I will admit that I thought it was normal for Star San to cloud up somewhat but I never really researched that so perhaps I shouldn't have assumed.
Here's to your continued success and keep us updated!
In any case, thanks for letting us know how this experimental batch turned out. Hopefully all will go well when you add steeping grains and your wort chiller to the process. I was going to say that my Star San clouds up as well and I use tap water too, so I may follow in your footsteps and use distilled water for sanitizing as well. I will admit that I thought it was normal for Star San to cloud up somewhat but I never really researched that so perhaps I shouldn't have assumed.
Here's to your continued success and keep us updated!
Cloudiness won't render starsan neutral. It has to do with PH of 3 or less being good. Although hard water could mess things up a bit. Or so they say.
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