Do I really need a sparge arm?

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kombat

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I've been brewing for a few years now, and I've always done batch sparging. However, a couple of weeks ago, I had the opportunity to brew on the "pilot" system of a small brewpub, and they employed fly sparging. But they didn't have any kind of a sparge arm, they just had the hose from the HLT draped into the mash tun, and the flow was so constricted by the ball valve on the pump outlet that the hot water coming out of the hose was really more like a gentle spray.

It got me wondering if I could do this on my home setup. I'm wondering if it would work if I elevated my HLT up above my mash tun (I use a rectangular cooler), and gravity-fed the sparge water from the HTL into the mash tun, with the flow rate constricted to a trickle, and having it dispersed onto a piece of aluminum foil floating in the mash tun, to minimize any disturbances to the grain bed.

Does anyone do this at the homebrew level? Do I really need a sparge arm, or can I fly sparge with just a plain old hose from the HLT to the mash tun if I keep the flow rate low and have it "spatter" onto a piece of foil in the mash tun? Is there any reason I'm missing why this wouldn't work?
 
Yep, works fine for me. I got one of those ss float balls to put on the end of the hose for sparge water, but I'm not convinced that's really necessary.
 
A pan top + support sticks + the hose from the HLT = my solution.
I changed to batch sparging to save time and hassles, though.
 
I have a 4' long piece of 1/2" silicone in my keggle-based MLT. It self supports and creates a nice whirlpool action.

Chris
 
Something like this on the end of your hose would be a good bet. http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/fermenters-favorites-fighter-jet-sparge

The problem with foil on top is that it makes seeing the height of the sparge water v. grain bed difficult, not insurmountable by any means though. I've even gone super-old school before, and added sparge water to the MLT quart by quart as needed. But like others have already said, I've found it not with the time and hassle, so I just batch sparge.
 
I use a silicon hose with a lot of small holes in it and rest it in the water/grain bed. I still keep about an inch or so of water above the grain bed and it works great for me. Consistently hit about 80-82% efficiency.
 
I used to employ the "foil poked with holes" and it worked great. Since then, I now just use a stainless colander and allow that to disperse my sparse water from the HLT into my MLT. The two colander arms rest perfectly on the opening of my keggle, so I don't keep using the foil.
 
I've done this twice now (just trickling sparge water into the tun, dispersing it over foil), and it seems to be working great. I've gotten a 5% bump in my efficiency, and the water above the grain bed is crystal clear (suggesting that all the sugars are indeed getting "pushed down" and extracted). I'm quite happy with it and will likely continue to do it, although it does add some time to the process.
 
Qhrumphf said:
Something like this on the end of your hose would be a good bet. http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/fermenters-favorites-fighter-jet-sparge

The problem with foil on top is that it makes seeing the height of the sparge water v. grain bed difficult, not insurmountable by any means though. I've even gone super-old school before, and added sparge water to the MLT quart by quart as needed. But like others have already said, I've found it not with the time and hassle, so I just batch sparge.
Click to expand...


My Google fu fails me. Is there a video of this thing in use anywhere?
 
I don't even bother with a hose. I just add a gallon of water at a time with a pitcher as the volume in the MLT goes down.
 
Spartan1979 said:
I don't even bother with a hose. I just add a gallon of water at a time with a pitcher as the volume in the MLT goes down.
Click to expand...

Bingo Bango!

I always just added water with pitchers as the level goes down. People get all worked up about that splashing thing, then you brew a hundred batches and figure this out....

If I had a setup where I could use a hose and gravity feed, I certainly would.
 
estricklin said:
If I had a setup where I could use a hose and gravity feed, I certainly would.
Click to expand...

All I've been doing is putting my spare burner (the one that came with the turkey fryer set I started out with) up on the table, and putting my HLT pot on that. I mash in a rectangular cooler sitting on the table next to the HLT, and the HLT (on the burner) is high enough up that the hot water easily flows from the valve, into the mash tun just with gravity.

The only tricky part is getting the water into the HLT to start. I use a little step stool and just bring up buckets of hot water from the basement (I brew in my garage) to top it up to 8 gallons or so and I heat it up during the mash, before I start fly sparging.
 
Hello said:
My Google fu fails me. Is there a video of this thing in use anywhere?
Click to expand...

Not sure. It references adjustable flow and i don't know how it does that, but the operation is easy to figure out. It takes the direct hose stream, slows it down and spreads it out.
 
Hello said:
My Google fu fails me. Is there a video of this thing in use anywhere?
Click to expand...

Qhrumphf said:
Not sure. It references adjustable flow and i don't know how it does that, but the operation is easy to figure out. It takes the direct hose stream, slows it down and spreads it out.
Click to expand...

It's a very simple piece of plastic that goes on the end of a hose. You should find them for a couple dollars at any LHBS or online supply. I don't really use mine anymore as I don't think it makes much difference vs just the hose laying on top of the mash. Here's an example:

https://youtu.be/Q-jgmgbwvg4?t=6m43s
 
kombat said:
All I've been doing is putting my spare burner (the one that came with the turkey fryer set I started out with) up on the table, and putting my HLT pot on that. I mash in a rectangular cooler sitting on the table next to the HLT, and the HLT (on the burner) is high enough up that the hot water easily flows from the valve, into the mash tun just with gravity.

The only tricky part is getting the water into the HLT to start. I use a little step stool and just bring up buckets of hot water from the basement (I brew in my garage) to top it up to 8 gallons or so and I heat it up during the mash, before I start fly sparging.
Click to expand...

Do you have a good false bottom setup? If you have a less than ideal false bottom fly sparging doesn't work nearly as good in my experience.
 
I'm just using a simple bazooka screen in my rectangular cooler mash tun. I add a scoop of rice hulls to every grain bill and drain slowly. Seems to work fine.
 
TallDan said:
It's a very simple piece of plastic that goes on the end of a hose. You should find them for a couple dollars at any LHBS or online supply. I don't really use mine anymore as I don't think it makes much difference vs just the hose laying on top of the mash. Here's an example:

https://youtu.be/Q-jgmgbwvg4?t=6m43s
Click to expand...

Thanks. That makes sense. I may order one anyway since I need to get something from NB and I'm paying almost as much for shipping as I am for the other item.


FWIW, I don't fly sparge. I have before using a piece of foil and a lid from a disposable food container. I didn't see any measurable benefits, but I could have been doing it wrong.
 
You don't need a sparge arm, but this didn't cost much:

4120-P3040003.JPG
 
I do that, but without the foil. I just put the hose from the HLT into the top of the mash tun and sparge slowly. It works fine and no extra pieces parts to make or buy.
 
kombat said:
I've been brewing for a few years now, and I've always done batch sparging. However, a couple of weeks ago, I had the opportunity to brew on the "pilot" system of a small brewpub, and they employed fly sparging. But they didn't have any kind of a sparge arm, they just had the hose from the HLT draped into the mash tun, and the flow was so constricted by the ball valve on the pump outlet that the hot water coming out of the hose was really more like a gentle spray.

It got me wondering if I could do this on my home setup. I'm wondering if it would work if I elevated my HLT up above my mash tun (I use a rectangular cooler), and gravity-fed the sparge water from the HTL into the mash tun, with the flow rate constricted to a trickle, and having it dispersed onto a piece of aluminum foil floating in the mash tun, to minimize any disturbances to the grain bed.

Does anyone do this at the homebrew level? Do I really need a sparge arm, or can I fly sparge with just a plain old hose from the HLT to the mash tun if I keep the flow rate low and have it "spatter" onto a piece of foil in the mash tun? Is there any reason I'm missing why this wouldn't work?
Click to expand...

Sure you can...the question is "why would you?". Is there a problem with batch sparging? It's one of the beauties of homebrewing...that you don't have to be constrained by what commercial brewers do. You have the freedom to use processes that they don't or can't.
 
I was under the impression (and my admittedly rough calculations support it) that fly sparging improves efficiency. Doesn't it also permit clearer wort into the boil kettle?

The other thing I like about it is that I don't have to do math where I precisely measure my first runnings, then figure out how much sparge water I need to make my boil volume, then worry whether or not I undershot and am not going to get enough from the sparge, may have to add more, then tannin extraction, etc. I just run off from the mash tun until I reach my boil volume in the kettle, then stop.
 
kombat said:
I was under the impression (and my admittedly rough calculations support it) that fly sparging improves efficiency. Doesn't it also permit clearer wort into the boil kettle?

The other thing I like about it is that I don't have to do math where I precisely measure my first runnings, then figure out how much sparge water I need to make my boil volume, then worry whether or not I undershot and am not going to get enough from the sparge, may have to add more, then tannin extraction, etc. I just run off from the mash tun until I reach my boil volume in the kettle, then stop.
Click to expand...
Not trying to tell you how to brew, batch/fly/no sparge / brew in a bag, whatever works for you and makes you happy,
but:
I get really good mash conversion with batch sparging, around 80%.
The math isn't that hard, just subtract what you have in the kettle from what you want in the kettle.
Even with fly sparging most brewing software/calculators will estimate the volume for sparging whether fly or batch sparging.
And from what I understand tannin extraction is more of an issue when fly sparging then batch sparging.
 
kombat said:
I was under the impression (and my admittedly rough calculations support it) that fly sparging improves efficiency. Doesn't it also permit clearer wort into the boil kettle?

The other thing I like about it is that I don't have to do math where I precisely measure my first runnings, then figure out how much sparge water I need to make my boil volume, then worry whether or not I undershot and am not going to get enough from the sparge, may have to add more, then tannin extraction, etc. I just run off from the mash tun until I reach my boil volume in the kettle, then stop.
Click to expand...

Fly sparging is not necessarily more efficient than batch sparging. My batch sparge efficiency is higher than many fly spargers. There is no difference in wort clarity.

As to measuring, I don't know what to tell ya. It takes only a few seconds and you have to get your sparge water into a vessel to be heated somehow. measuring really is no big deal. And you don't have to do it if you don't want to. It's more of an advantage.

Tannin extraction is MUCH less of an issue with batch sparging than fly sparging. When you fly sparge, you are continually diluting the buffering power of the grain, meaning that pH will rise and tannin extraction become more likely.
 
Since I use a bucket with a manifold for a mash tun, I have a plastic lid I drilled holes in. I use another bucket for HLT and drain that through a short hose onto the perforated lid. 85% eff for me.
 

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