doing first AG tomorrow fly sparging question

Okay I am doing my first All grain batch tomorrow morning.

I have the 10 gal rubbermaid round cooler with false bottom all SS.

I am using beersmith. Grain bill is 12.26 lbs. Its suggesting 18.53 gallon strike water heated to 165 for a 152 degree 60 minute mash. I choose single infusion no mash out medium body.
I was going to batch sparge but would actually like to fly sparge.

I need advice on my plan. I want to do the initial mash and vorloff
and then can I keep the lid off the cooler and drain out slowly while pouring 1 qt at a time through a colander that will sprinkle over the grain bed? What temp should the sparge water be? Is that plan workable? I mostly want to make sure I get good efficiency. Beersmith says the fly sparge will be 4.75 gallons. I dont have another cooler but i do have big enough pots to heat water. I dont have a device designed to fly sparge. Can I proceed with fly sparging or should I batch it this time.

IMO, if efficiency is your concern then batch sparge this time and get yourself properly set up for fly if that's really what you want to do. Your proposed method will not generate consistent results

duboman said:

IMO, if efficiency is your concern then batch sparge this time and get yourself properly set up for fly if that's really what you want to do. Your proposed method will not generate consistent results

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I fully believe you but can you elaborate on why?


is it because the lid is off the mlt?

With that set up, I would batch sparge, you won't do any better fly sparging with this method. I would do a mash out with 1 gallon boiling water, using colander, stir, rest for 10 minutes, then vorlauf

PastorofMuppets said:

I fully believe you but can you elaborate on why?

is it because the lid is off the mlt?

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It's because when you fly sparge it's important to maintain a level if water over the grain, equal and even distribution of water over the grain to prevent channeling and a rate of flow that should take about 45 minutes to an hour.

Simply pouring hot water through a colander is a difficult way to achieve this and typically efficiency will suffer

Once Vourlaff is clear you are ready to Sparge. Your Colander idea is sound. Whichever method you use, make sure the water line is above the grain bed while you Sparge. The slower the better. You probably want to run 180-190 degree water over the Colander to run through the mash to your boil tank. Try to limit the flow to >1.5 hours (5 gal batch). An hour won't hurt, but you want it to last as long as your patience allows. Take real-time temp measurements of the grain bed as you Sparge (if you can). This will help you adjust your process for next time or allow for temp input changes for this batch. Sugar conversion is best ~150F for mashing. Most brewers Sparge with higher temps to 'rinse it out'. Don't overfill the boil tank, and if so boil longer to get to target volume. My theory on over-boiling is it is easier to add water later than it is to go back in time and boil longer.

meltroha said:

With that set up, I would batch sparge, you won't do any better fly sparging with this method. I would do a mash out with 1 gallon boiling water, using colander, stir, rest for 10 minutes, then vorlauf

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okay

so I do the initial strike, mash for 60 min at 152, then add 1 gallon boiling water, stir, rest, vorlauf, drain out, then add the batch water, wait 15 min, vorlauf again, drain again, then boil as before?

or not that?

18 gallons for 12lbs of grain? I hope those are quarts and not gallons. Check your beersmith units settings.

As for the fly vs batch I've experimented with both. With what you have I would stick with batch sparging. Fly sparging can be difficult to get the optimum input/output flow matched. If you have a sight glass on your mash tun it's definitely easier. Doing by eye on the inside graduations on the cooler is tricky. The biggest problem you would have is disturbing the grain bed, and potentially letting it drain too much. Neither are catastrophic but it will negate the benefits of fly sparging since you would essentially be doing an overly complicated batch sparge one quart at a time.

PastorofMuppets said:

okay

so I do the initial strike, mash for 60 min at 152, then add 1 gallon boiling water, stir, rest, vorlauf, drain out, then add the batch water, wait 15 min, vorlauf again, drain again, then boil as before?

or not that?

Click to expand...

To batch sparge read this:
Www.dennybrew.com
Everything you need to know and fail proof!

mtbiker278 said:

18 gallons for 12lbs of grain? I hope those are quarts and not gallons. Check your beersmith units settings.

As for the fly vs batch I've experimented with both. With what you have I would stick with batch sparging. Fly sparging can be difficult to get the optimum input/output flow matched. If you have a sight glass on your mash tun it's definitely easier. Doing by eye on the inside graduations on the cooler is tricky. The biggest problem you would have is disturbing the grain bed, and potentially letting it drain too much. Neither are catastrophic but it will negate the benefits of fly sparging since you would essentially be doing an overly complicated batch sparge one quart at a time.

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yes its quarts. 18.53 quarts and then 4.65 gallons for the sparge water.
I am going to do a batch sparge this first time. I know there will be plenty more brews to work on the process. I just read several threads about horrible efficiency which scared me.

Just read a weird setting in beersmith. It says check to drain mash tun before sparge..Does that mean if you have room you can add the sparge on top of the original mash? If so I have never read that before? it would save a vorlauf and some time, but i still dont know how mash outs and all the rests and stuff really work.

If this is your first AG batch, do it as simply as possible.

Don't worry about raising the temp to 170 or whatever before sparging. Just vorlauf, drain (don't worry about doing it slowly), dump in the sparge water and give it a bit of a stir, wait 5-10 minutes, vorlauf, drain.

You will have enough stuff to worry about without trying to pour crap through a colander or hit your mash out temps, which barely make a difference in the overall scheme of things.


Speaking of temps: before adding any grain, stir in your strike water 5-10 degrees hotter than Beersmith says. Close the cooler and let it sit a few minutes. Open it up, stir the water around and check the temp. When it gets down to maybe 1-2F above your target strike temp, stir in the grain. Stir everything around thoroughly. Check your temp--you should be extremely close to your target mash temp. Then close the cooler and go have a homebrew, and don't open the damn thing up again until 60 minutes have passed. Re-checking the temperature in the middle of the mash is the surest way to screw it up.

PastorofMuppets said:

okay

so I do the initial strike, mash for 60 min at 152, then add 1 gallon boiling water, stir, rest, vorlauf, drain out, then add the batch water, wait 15 min, vorlauf again, drain again, then boil as before?

or not that?

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Correct

meltroha said:

Correct

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Do i subtract that gallon from the batch size?

PastorofMuppets said:

Do i subtract that gallon from the batch size?

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Not unless you are above 1.25 qts/lb, there is a profile for it on beersmith. If anything, you would take it away from your sparge water, but it depends on your system. If you do a single batch sparge, you can take it from your sparge water volume, then have about a gallon of 168° water on the stove, then do a second batch sparge with that if you do not hit your pre-boil volume, using same method as before. Homebrewing is all about experimentation, what works on my set up, won't always work on yours, the method I describe is pretty easy, a good start, and there is back up options just in case.

So my all grain cherry is broke now.

I added a straight 5 gallons of 165 degree water to MLT. added 5.2 then waited until it was 160 degrees and doughed in.
It seemed a bit loose. I hit the 152 mash temp perfectly. Midway through the mash my digital thermometer died and i only had the glass one that came in my kit. did the vorlauf but it was clear pretty much right away after maybe a quart. I ran 5 to be sure. got about 4 gallons on the first run. I did not do a mash out but just added 4.5 gallons sparge, stirred like crazy and waited 15 min. I vorlaufed again and easily got my 6.5 gallon starting point. I had about 2 qts left that i drained out. my gravity was 1.052 which adjusted for temp was 1.061 I was pretty happy.

Fast forward past the boil my OG after cool down was 1.056 I was shooting for 1.058. Beersmith reports 67.1% efficiency. I am pretty happy with it.
I had a devil of a time getting wort into fermenter. I just wasnt prepared for the amount of break material. My siphon clogged and I ended up pouring through a sanitized funnel and strainer, and spilled some. I ordered a thermapen during the mash cause im sick of stupid cheapo thermometers futzing out.

Got a .75 quart starter in and i think this beer will turn out great.
I made good notes for dialing in my system.

If you have any advice after reading that I am all ears. Thanks again for the help on this thread. I am only loving this hobby more and more.

PastorofMuppets said:

okay

so I do the initial strike, mash for 60 min at 152, then add 1 gallon boiling water, stir, rest, vorlauf, drain out, then add the batch water, wait 15 min, vorlauf again, drain again, then boil as before?

or not that?

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No need for those rests after adding water. It's a waste of time. See www.dennybrew.com for info.

Denny said:

No need for those rests after adding water. It's a waste of time. See www.dennybrew.com for info.

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I like to let it sit just so the crud settles a bit between sparges before I start the vorlauf. I find if I let it sit for 5-10 minutes after dumping the sparge water in there, I get clearer wort faster than if I start trying to pull the liquid out right away.

I suppose technically speaking there is probably some point in time where it's already settled and I am wasting time by waiting longer, but I don't know what that is and 5ish minutes seems to do the job fine while not seeming like I'm wasting a bunch of time. It's still about a gazillion times faster than a fly sparge.

I've experimented with different wait times dozens of times and never found a difference, so now I just stnir in the water and run off immediately. I have not found clarity of wort to have any bearing on the clarity or flavor fo the finished beer. YMMV, of course.