GrogNerd
mean old man
K-K-K-K-K-K-K-Kathmandu?
If I ever get out of here...
If I ever get out of here...
Completely random question, but could this be done with flavorless gelatin? Additionally, wouldn't this be good for those of us who don't have the space/funds for ferm temp control? If the yeast can only ferment at the pace the solution passes through the membrane, temp shouldn't get out of control, right?
came across this,
https://squareup.com/market/ruckus-fermentation
came across this,
https://squareup.com/market/ruckus-fermentation
That's the same guy/guys from the MuPor thread, fyi. Looks like they finally got a business together. But what's disappointing is the lack of information in terms of "how it works". I can't even find what their yeast strand is they are using.
Did anyone out there ever finish their own experiments with the technique Malfet outlined in the OP? I know someone was going to try this with some Brett strains, I'd be very interested in those results.
was that thread deleted?
Yeast stand up to acid relatively well, which is the principle behind acid washing.
I remember someone posting they thought StarSan was a fraud because it didn't kill his yeast.Starsan absolutely destroys yeast. The detergent opens up the cell to allow the acid in.That is how starsan kills, it's not just acid.
It has to kill yeast or else it wouldn't sell because of all the wild yeast infections people would end up with in their beer.
Exactly the opposite- if star-san killed yeast, you wouldn't be able to bottle condition a beer, as it's a 'wet contact' sanitizer, and we all bottle when the bottle is wet with sanitizer. We also sanitize our brewgear, and it's still wet with star-san when we add our wort and yeast to the fermenter.
It may kill some strains of wild yeast, and not brewer's yeast, but I wouldn't even say that would be a sure thing.
Exactly the opposite- if star-san killed yeast, you wouldn't be able to bottle condition a beer, as it's a 'wet contact' sanitizer, and we all bottle when the bottle is wet with sanitizer. We also sanitize our brewgear, and it's still wet with star-san when we add our wort and yeast to the fermenter.
It may kill some strains of wild yeast, and not brewer's yeast, but I wouldn't even say that would be a sure thing.
Star-San kills yeast. Star-san doesn't discriminate across different microbes. Despite that yeast can survive a pH2 solution, the pH is not the killing action of StarSan, its the redox reaction on the cell membranes of microbes that does the killing. The low pH is just what indicates that StarSan is active, not how it kills.
Like I have posted. There are reports of exactly this kind of thing happening. Different yeasts will have different tolerance levels to StarSan or any other sanitizer. Please familiarize yourself with the difference between sanitation and sterilization. Sanitation does not guarantee 100% kill as you seem to think you are getting anyhow. I don't think StarSan would be reckless enough to make that claim. It is a best effort kind of thing. If you start with a clean surface and rinse it down with sanitizer then more stuff will die or get weakened or simply rinse off. Given time it may indeed come closer to sterilization levels but it will never achieve that.Anyone still unsure. Make a starter wort, add the recommended amount of star-san concentrate for the volume of wort. Add yeast and see if your starter starts.
Mmmm.... Mausbier.... :cross:
Starsan absolutely destroys yeast. The detergent opens up the cell to allow the acid in.That is how starsan kills, it's not just acid.
Given time starsan will kill them all. I used a starsan solution diluted 100% (about 5ph) and left for 24 hrs to see what happens. They were turned to sludge in eight hours. I added starter wort after rinsing with distilled water. Left out at 70° for two weeks.absolutely nothing.
And yes, the acid does the killing. The sufactant/detergent disables the cell walls ability to monitor fluids in/out. The acid then enters the cell (carried by the sufactant) for the kill.
My understanding was that the surfactant janked up metabolic activity directly and that the acid was mostly necessary to create proper ionic gradient. Is that not correct? I certainly could be wrong, as this stuff gets above my knowhow very quickly. My only real source on sanitation beyond gossip is Principles of Food Sanitation, which seems to suggest on page 180 that anionic detergents have poor action on yeast.
In any case, I'm sure leaving your beads in starsan for 24 hours will kill your yeast (not to mention break up the binding agent...hence the sludge), but for the time periods involved here I've never observed any negative effects on yeast (even with a microscope and hemocytometer).
If star san does anything to a yeast slurry, I'd think it lowers the p.H., not raise it.
How do you know the yeast isn't dying?
I'd wager that once your star san hits the yeast slurry, the P.H. instantly goes too high and your star san is basically cloudy water with no killing ability. Next time, put your slurry into jars and settle it out. Decant the liquid and pitch a tbs full of slurry into a mason jar full of properly mixed star san and see what happens to your yeast...
Star san has to kill yeast or else you'd never be able to make a batch of beer with a low attenuating strain of yeast with the same gear you used to make a batch with a high attenuating yeast strain. If the star san didn't kill the high attenuating strain, it would always end up fermenting your wort to its attenuation level. You'd also never be able to make a beer with a neutral yeast after using a Belgian etc...
this all is 100% false.
Star san has to kill yeast or else you'd never be able to make a batch of beer with a low attenuating strain of yeast with the same gear you used to make a batch with a high attenuating yeast strain. If the star san didn't kill the high attenuating strain, it would always end up fermenting your wort to its attenuation level. You'd also never be able to make a beer with a neutral yeast after using a Belgian etc...
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