quick yeast question

I'm about to harvest some WLP400 (Wityeast I believe) from a fresh batch. I have two questions.

1. In this case I'd be going from a darker spicier beer to a german style wheat. Assuming the yeast is cleaned up enough will the yeast/leftover trub retain the flavors of the spices used on the last batch (cloves, cinnamon, allspice, orange peel, nutmeg, etc)?

2. Assuming this yeast can be cleaned up enough to ferment a cleaner light beer I'm going for a german wheat style beer where the fermenting process leaves me with a banana-y sort of flavor. I had done this before by accident when the yeast got too warm during primary (78 I believe). Will this sort of yeast yield those results if run too hot during fermentation or do I need different yeast?

1. You'll want to wash the yeast. Search "Yeast Washing". That'll take care of the remnants from the last batch.

2. Dunno if WLP400 will give the esters you're looking for. Most folks use WLP300 or WLP380.

Boodlemania said:

2. Dunno if WLP400 will give the esters you're looking for. Most folks use WLP300 or WLP380.

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Got it. That was the answer I was searching for. I couldn't recall the number but I think 300 was what I used the last time I did it.

So, check my math on this. If I use yeast that normally produces fruity esters is there any reason to try to ferment at higher temps or will it produce the same effect by fermenting at 73? I'm trying to determine how much high temps can influence a "byproduct" (desirable or otherwise) versus running yeast in a normal temp range.

In this case I just want to accentuate the banana. How to get there is the question.

I might be wrong, but I think getting the balance of clove/banana with WLP300 is more complex than strictly fermentation temperature. I'm far from an expert, but it also has to do with the characteristics of your mash.

I've had much better success with producing a balanced weisse once I started using a fermentation chamber as well as a multi-step mash.

Sorry I don't have a specific answer for you, but although I brew weisbier frequently and like what I brew, I do not claim to understand all the chemistry going on.

Boodlemania said:

I might be wrong, but I think getting the balance of clove/banana with WLP300 is more complex than strictly fermentation temperature. I'm far from an expert, but it also has to do with the characteristics of your mash.

I've had much better success with producing a balanced weisse once I started using a fermentation chamber as well as a multi-step mash.

Sorry I don't have a specific answer for you, but although I brew weisbier frequently and like what I brew, I do not claim to understand all the chemistry going on.

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Wow, I was not expecting that answer. I'm just doing an extract brew so there's not much mash to control. If anything, that sort of removes a lot of variables...what goes in has already been predetermined. I can control temp to a degree (or two, no pun intended) but that's it.

The reviews of the yeast on White Labs site seems to imply the average user gets enough flavor out of if doing nothing special so I suppose if I just do what it says on the vial I should be ok.

I got the "banana-ey" flavors from WLP300 doing fermentation at 63 - but I under pitched. I believe with that yeast you can get it the two ways, but a higher temp and by under pitching.

I under pitched, because in the same area I was fermenting the same batch of properly pitched hefe with WLP300, and at a lower temp you get a stronger clove flavor. So that worked out pretty well for myself.

luke2080 said:

I got the "banana-ey" flavors from WLP300 doing fermentation at 63 - but I under pitched. I believe with that yeast you can get it the two ways, but a higher temp and by under pitching.

I under pitched, because in the same area I was fermenting the same batch of properly pitched hefe with WLP300, and at a lower temp you get a stronger clove flavor. So that worked out pretty well for myself.

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Thanks, this is helpful. My brew closet sits at 72-75, I can cool it down to the low 60's (with frozen 2 liter bottles in an ice bath) but it takes a lot of effort. It's easy for me to underpitch though, just dump the vial in without a starter. Did you believe the cooler temp would be worth the effort?