Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

Well,


that has almost blown the lid of the FV.

sweetcell said:

i wouldn't boil the coffee in the kettle, that would un-do the benefot of having cold-steeped the beans. adding at flamemout will help keep bitternerss under control. i added mine shortly after i started cooling, so the wort was around 190*F.

Click to expand...

I was satisfied with how my turned out. Coffee and chocolate came thru nicely. Was STRONG coffee till aged 3+ months. Only had issues with oats since I didn't use instant (ton of trub in primary) gonna brew this tomorrow with tweaks based on Canadian and Kentucky Breakfast Stout. Should be very complex.

Here is my plan for next brew:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/67646/breakfast-stout

Anyone else find that this takes quite a long time to carb up? I've been on gas for two weeks and its just starting to carb.....

studio1one said:

Got this mashing now, wow that is a seriously thick mash, not really suited to my mash tunbut there you go. It will be fine

Click to expand...

no harm in going a little thinner. also, you can add rice hulls if you're concerned about sticking your mash.

sweetcell said:

no harm in going a little thinner. also, you can add rice hulls if you're concerned about sticking your mash.

Click to expand...

Came out fine in the end, gravity fine, all good.

OK so I am going to age half of this in oak but I can't decide whether to use Sherry barrel or Bourbon barrel for aging, what are peoples thoughts?

i'd go with bourbon. i'm not sure that sherry would go well with an imperial stout - certainly not as well as bourbon, which is a proven winner. but it all comes down to what you like. have you had sherry-aged beers before? i haven't, so who knows... personally, i wouldn't be willing to risk a whole batch of this delicious beer to find out if sherry works or not

sweetcell said:

i'd go with bourbon. i'm not sure that sherry would go well with an imperial stout - certainly not as well as bourbon, which is a proven winner. but it all comes down to what you like. have you had sherry-aged beers before? i haven't, so who knows... personally, i wouldn't be willing to risk a whole batch of this delicious beer to find out if sherry works or not

Click to expand...

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/mikkeller-sherry-barrel-aged-black-as-hell/93012/

arborman said:

Anyone else find that this takes quite a long time to carb up? I've been on gas for two weeks and its just starting to carb.....

Click to expand...

I kegged this one and a scotch ale on the same day a little over a week ago. The scotch is pretty well carbed up but the breakfast stout is still not quite there. I'm guessing another week and it will be good to go. How did yours turn out? Mine tastes great, but still has a strong coffee kick.

I bottled mine and the first month is coffee forward, still a good beer. After 6-8 weeks the chocolate comes forward and the coffee dissipates revealing a different beer. Another guy in my club asked for the recipe after having it a month after bottling, I gave him the recipe along with a bottle with about 3months of age on it so he could take the difference.

Just did mine for the second year in a row. I've tweaked the recipe slightly and have done a second run that I keg that's a little more sessionable. More economical. My first run is big, I'll be aging on Oak for 2 months in the secondary and botteling. Here the recipe:

#17 2 row
#1 American Chocolate malt
14oz Roasted Barley
8oz American black patent malt
8oz crystal 120L
#2 flaked oats
Couple handfuls of rice
.5oz Nugget pellets 60 mins
.5 Mt hood pellets 30 mins
.5 Mt hood pellets 5 mins
At 15 min addition
.5oz MD, 4oz of powdered unsweetened hersheys chocolate, and Yeast nutrient
Flameout- 2oz ground colombian coffee
Mashed for 90 at 155
2 packages of dry safeale S-04 yeast
OG= 1.089
Will primary for 2-3 weeks, then 2ndary with 2 toasted oak spirals for 2 months
Will bottle


2nd run session stout
.5oz Nugget for 60
.5oz Mt Hood 30
.5oz Mt Hood 5
1oz MD at 15, 2oz of powdered unsweetened hersheys chocolate, yeast nutrient
Last 5 - #1lb DME
Flameout – 1oz Colombian coffee
1 packet Safeale 04
OG= 1.050
Will let ferment for 2 weeks then keg

Awesome idea to split the runnings! I honestly went down to the basement to grab a bottle of beer and had the breakfast stout in my hand but wasn't decided against the 10% beer and went with something more sessionable. Definitely let us know how it turns out!

I bottled this today with a little extra coffee and it seemed a little too bitter... will this mellow in the bottle after a month or so?

ziggityz said:

I bottled this today with a little extra coffee and it seemed a little too bitter... will this mellow in the bottle after a month or so?

Click to expand...

It'll mellow out big time with age...if your OG came in above 80 - 85 then it will probly take longer to mellow. I kegged my last batch, and it was at its best when i cashed the keg like 5months after brew day

pretty sure it was 81, I drank an actual founders breakfast last night, and my uncarbonated stout was close to the real thing but not exact

ziggityz said:

I bottled this today with a little extra coffee and it seemed a little too bitter... will this mellow in the bottle after a month or so?

Click to expand...

I kegged mine about a month ago and the first sample I tasted was about a week after that. It was bitter and had a really strong coffee flavor. Not bad, but pretty harsh. I'm drinking a glass right now and in the three weeks since the last sample it has mellowed out a lot. The coffee and bitterness are much more mellow and smooth now. It tastes great and seems likely that it will get even better.

this is a big beer with a lot of intense flavors. it isn't meant to be drunk fresh. most folks agree this beer peaks around 6 months. so yes, in 1 month the coffee will mellow... and even more so in 6 months.

two weeks after bottling I tasted this next to a founder's breakfast stout. I don't think mine was as hoppy or as coffee forward, chocolate still came through. Aroma was close, so was body. I wasn't trying to make an exact clone, just a good stout and I think I accomplished that goal! I can post my recipe if there is an interest

Wow, just tasted this after 10 days fermentation ... came from 1.077 to 1.022... not bad, 7.2%.. this is the first beer that I ever sat down and just enjoyed drinking the uncarbonated tester sample... delicious

the coffee is pretty full on right now.. I used 2oz of Lavazza ground straight in at flameout

Not much chocolate... looking forward to seeing how this comes out..

Whats people's opinion.. to nitro or not too nitro??

So I have 10 days already in primary... thinking 3 weeks primary then rack my 25L to 2 kegs so I can taste the difference over time..maybe have one before Christmas now and leave the rest till Paddy's day? OR shall I be patient and keep it all for 5 months?

man thats the first time I ever used a blow off tube... that was wild.. used White Labs Irish Ale, made a starter... BOOM..6 hours later I have black stuff on the roof of my fermenter fridge.. result!!

I think nitro for this beer sounds great! I wish I had the capability to try it. Let us know if you do.

Gonna have to try this one soon. SWMBO and I have been enjoying bottles of breakfast stout but it's getting pricey. Time to brew up a batch myself. Thanks for sharing the recipe.

Brewed a PM of this on Sunday and smells awesome so far! Might have miscalculated something, my OG was like 1.104. Oh well, I'm trying to swirl my beer daily to keep the yeast going.

I forgot to add cocoa nibs, maybe I'll just toss some in a little boiling water, then throw them in.

1.104? hopefully you pitched extra yeast and aerated the hell outta that bad boy.

Or a yeast starter..I use a yeast starter for anything assumed to be over 1.050.. Much easier to underpins than over pitch. I'd Boil up some nibs and pitch them in.. That's what the Commercial Brewers do when they forget.

I rehydrated 2 packets of US-05, then tossed that in with some yeast energizer. I figured if one packet is good for 1.050, two packets should be fine for 1.100.

Just working on controlling temp the best I can, and swirling the beer once in a while to make sure I have a good homogeneous yeast/beer solution.

Hi! What did some of you do for sparge temperature/volume on this recipe? Thanks much! -Colt

Is the recipe posted on the first page still the current / most accurate one?

Well, just screwed this one up.

Was pulling the grains from my jars for milling. Got to the Black Patent on the recipe. Can't get Black Patent at my LHBS, so I usually sub in Carafa III. Working on full-auto, I grabbed the Black Barley jar and used it instead. D'oh!

Black Patent is malted. Black Barley (Roasted Barley at 500L) is not.

How do I fix this?
Add Carafa now?
Accept it as it is?

Alternatively, I can scoop off and pick out the Chocolate and Black Barley. They're just sitting on top of the 2-row.

cjedin said:

Hi! What did some of you do for sparge temperature/volume on this recipe? Thanks much! -Colt

Click to expand...

I'm planning on using standard temp between 153-158 or so. I'm also thinkin' I'm going to let it go all night just to attempt a better efficiency if possible. I think the #s I saw earlier showed people using 1.25 qt per lb because it's so full - could be off on that though.

Can anyone comment on the caffeine content of this beer? Is there any left in it or is it somehow removed during fermentation.
Had a little trouble sleeping last night.

jmacker said:

Can anyone comment on the caffeine content of this beer? Is there any left in it or is it somehow removed during fermentation.
Had a little trouble sleeping last night.

Click to expand...

There seems to be consensus out there that there will absolutely be caffeine in the brew when coffee is used - moreso when the cold brewed process is followed.

But, from the sheer volume perspective, I don't think there's much, or enough to make a large difference due to the amount of coffee used per how much beer you're getting. But, we're all different so it could mean that the small amount will impact your sleep pattern.

I know I've done the math before, but let's run through the numbers.

I've seen a couple sources online say that there is around 2% caffeine in coffee beans. 4 oz of beans used, so that's 0.08 oz or 2268 mg of caffeine going into the 5 gallons, so that's 3.54 mg/oz or about 57 mg/16 oz pint or 42.5 mg/12 oz bottle.

That's less than a brewed cup of coffee, but more than a diet coke. But that is assuming we are extracting 100% of the caffeine. I'm having a hard time finding numbers, but I did see someone mention 95% caffeine extraction in brewed coffee (hot). So that first 2 oz going in at the end of the boil (assuming you followed the recipe), could have close to 100% extraction. There seems to be some disagreement online (shocking, I know) about whether you extract more caffeine longer cold brewing vs shorter brewing at near boiling temperatures. But if you're extracting 95% when brewing coffee with hot water, you can't get much more than that.

So basically the answer lies somewhere between 0 mg and 57 mg If someone can find better numbers for the amount of caffeine that is extracted in the brewing processes, I can update the numbers. Hope that helps.

mtnagel said:

I know I've done the math before, but let's run through the numbers. I've seen a couple sources online say that there is around 2% caffeine in coffee beans. 4 oz of beans used, so that's 0.08 oz or 2268 mg of caffeine going into the 5 gallons, so that's 3.54 mg/oz or about 57 mg/16 oz pint or 42.5 mg/12 oz bottle. That's less than a brewed cup of coffee, but more than a diet coke. But that is assuming we are extracting 100% of the caffeine. I'm having a hard time finding numbers, but I did see someone mention 95% caffeine extraction in brewed coffee (hot). So that first 2 oz going in at the end of the boil (assuming you followed the recipe), could have close to 100% extraction. There seems to be some disagreement online (shocking, I know) about whether you extract more caffeine longer cold brewing vs shorter brewing at near boiling temperatures. But if you're extracting 95% when brewing coffee with hot water, you can't get much more than that. So basically the answer lies somewhere between 0 mg and 57 mg If someone can find better numbers for the amount of caffeine that is extracted in the brewing processes, I can update the numbers. Hope that helps.

Click to expand...

Don't know. But been researching the cold brew stuff and there is some interesting information/rumors regarding coffee brewing.

I for one am uncertain about what is accurate and what isn't. Some claim that there is a higher caffeine content to cold brewed coffee than auto drip brewed (hot) coffee.
Also read that cold brewing doesn't extract as much acid, the type of which degrades as hot brewed coffee cools and has an astringent flavor.
I believe the vacuum bags most beans are in, are designed to accept the fresh (hot) roasted beans, which presumably are sanitary having just been roasted, and then continue to vent in the sealed bag through the one way valve. Also, I've never heard of anyone getting sick from eating a roasted coffee bean, or for the chocolate coated bean, from spoiling due to contamination by critters on the bean. I think therefore the beans can be considered sanitary. The grinder on the other hand is presumably NOT sanitary. Unless you were to devise a way to crush the coffee beans in a sterile fashion and then cold brew with boiled cooled water, I think a pasteurization process may be beneficial prior to adding to the beer. There has been talk of boiling driving off dissolved gas in the brewing water and removing flavor from the final coffee. However, in breakfasts stout, I suppose that you would not want to add in any oxygen at that stage of the game, so pre boiling the brewing water seems a good idea. Also the pastuerization would not likely affect flavor much I don't think, since the cold brew method is not going to extract as much of the acids that hot brewed coffee contains. I realize I am overthinking this, and don't recall what I did the last time I brewed this, probably back in 2008 or 2009...

Has ANYBODY had a contamination problem in making this beer that they can attribute to a cold brewed coffee addition??

TD

I don't want to turn this thread into a coffee brewer one. To that end, I'll say this: Cold brew a cup of coffee over a 24 hour period. Then taste it compared to a warm brewed (and cooled) version. Personally, I find a HUGE difference in taste. Lastly, PLEASE DON'T BOIL THE COFFEE....it's like, sacriledge. Should brew ~ 190 degrees and not much warmer for the right flavanoids (ooh, big word!). I'd suggest the same if you decide to pastuerize - don't go above that threshold.

Beyond that, I agree with what Mr. TrickyDick stated.

And I believe there was a statement from someone that did a frenchpress cold brew method and did have an infection a few pages back....

I've made 4 beers with coffee. One with brewed coffee, cooled down in secondary. One with cold brewed coffee in secondary. And 2 batches with ground up coffee beans at flameout and more added in secondary. Never had an infection. Doesn't mean it can't happen, just that it hasn't been an issue for me.

Thanks for the caffeine content responses. I guess I'll just have to keep drinking it to see if it really does effect my sleep.

thadius856 said:

Well, just screwed this one up.

Was pulling the grains from my jars for milling. Got to the Black Patent on the recipe. Can't get Black Patent at my LHBS, so I usually sub in Carafa III. Working on full-auto, I grabbed the Black Barley jar and used it instead. D'oh!

Black Patent is malted. Black Barley (Roasted Barley at 500L) is not.

How do I fix this?
Add Carafa now?
Accept it as it is?

Alternatively, I can scoop off and pick out the Chocolate and Black Barley. They're just sitting on top of the 2-row.

Click to expand...

go for it and don't worry about it.

Brewed this tonight.. Hit 1.082 OG... Trickled out of the mash tun during first and second runnings

anyone adding yeast to the bottling bucket for priming? Figure with a beer that has 2 weeks primary and 4 weeks secondary, is there enough yeast left?