carapils vs crystal

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mparmer

mparmer

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I searched but couldn't find the answer to this. Does a crystal malt contribute to body, head retention the same as carapils? In other words if your recipe for a simple american pale ale was 8 lbs 2 row and 1 lb of crystal 60 (which I know contributes non fermentable sweetness) would it help body and head retention to also include a half lb of carapils or does the crystal 60 adequately cover this?
Thanks!
 
elmetal said:
crystal is NOT for head retention. it's for color, flavor, and sugars
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I don't agree with that. Crystal malts do provide flavor, color and a small amount of fermentable sugars, but they also give some body and head retention. Really, carapils is simply a lighter colored crystal malt. It's just kilned at a lower temperature to minimize any color impact.

I will say that I never use carapils anymore, and haven't for ages. But I use crystal malts, and I have no problem with body or head retention.
 
For some reason I just assumed they were the same thing, having substituted them based on availability. I guess not though. Yooper may I ask wh you've stopped using Carapils?
 
patrck17 said:
For some reason I just assumed they were the same thing, having substituted them based on availability. I guess not though. Yooper may I ask wh you've stopped using Carapils?
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Well, just because it's not needed. Most of my beers use crystal malt of some sort, so it's sort of redundant.
 
YooperBrew said:
I don't agree with that. Crystal malts do provide flavor, color and a small amount of fermentable sugars, but they also give some body and head retention. Really, carapils is simply a lighter colored crystal malt. It's just kilned at a lower temperature to minimize any color impact.

I will say that I never use carapils anymore, and haven't for ages. But I use crystal malts, and I have no problem with body or head retention.
Click to expand...

LOL off topic but the last sentence made me think dirty thoughts
 
Crystal malt

Crystal malts are prepared separately from pale malts. They are high-nitrogen malts which are wetted and roasted in a rotating drum before kilning. They produce strongly sweet toffee-like flavors and are sufficiently converted that they can be steeped without mashing to extract their flavor. Crystal malts are available in a range of colors, with darker-colored crystal malts, that is, those kilned at higher temperatures, producing stronger, more caramel-like overtones. Some of the sugars in crystal malts caramelize during kilning and become unfermentable; hence, addition of crystal malt will increase the final sweetness of a beer. They contain no enzymes.
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Carapils

Similarly to crystal malts in Britain, central Europe makes use of caramel malts, which are moistened and kilned at temperatures around 55-65 °C in a rotating drum before being heated to higher temperatures for browning. The lower-temperature moistened kilning causes conversion and mashing to take place in the oven, resulting in a grain's starches becoming mostly or entirely converted to sugar before darkening. Caramel malts are produced in color grades analogous to other lager malts: carapils for pilsener malt, caravienne or carahell for Vienna malt, and caramunch for Munich malt. Color and final kilning temperature are comparable to non-caramel analog malts; there is no diastatic activity. Carapils malt is sometimes also called dextrin malt. 10-120 °L.
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All from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mash_ingredients

So, carapils is a type of crystal. It's just the cara version of pilsner malt. Caramunich is just munich malt treated with the "cara" treatment of wetting and heat.

Personally, I too thought that carapils simply meant "gives more head"...after some smackdowns from folks here, I learned that it's just another (lighter) crystal. So, the rules you follow with crystal apply to carapils, and you don't want 5% carapils if you already have 15% crystal, since it'll make it hella sweet.

I used to throw 1 lb of carapils into everything for better head. Now I never use it, and still get great head.

Goddamn this post ended dirty :p.
 
I had always assumed that the conversion in the husk, for xtal.caramel malts, was made to happen using the moisture that was left from the malting process. The above seems to say otherwise. Also it does imply that the color comes from a process post conversion, which is what I had thought too. I think somebody above was implying that you use pilsner/vienna/munich malt to make carapils/cv/cm, which, even if not true, could be done as there are still enzymes in those malts, and the wiki does state the the grains are wetted.... so, are cp/cv/cm all made from a previously dried pilsner malt?

If carapils has undergone conversion in the husk, why is it not sweet? To me it is nothing like xtal 10L.
 
StMarcos said:
I had always assumed that the conversion in the husk, for xtal.caramel malts, was made to happen using the moisture that was left from the malting process. The above seems to say otherwise. Also it does imply that the color comes from a process post conversion, which is what I had thought too. I think somebody above was implying that you use pilsner/vienna/munich malt to make carapils/cv/cm, which, even if not true, could be done as there are still enzymes in those malts, and the wiki does state the the grains are wetted.... so, are cp/cv/cm all made from a previously dried pilsner malt?

If carapils has undergone conversion in the husk, why is it not sweet? To me it is nothing like xtal 10L.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, pils/vienna/munich are used to make carapils, caravienna, caramunich...but I could be wrong.

As for sweetness, carapils is more of a 2L, and the higher the lovibond rating, the more conversion to sugar, (crystal 120 leaves more residual sweetness than crystal 60 because of this)....so perhaps carapils is less sweet than crystal 10L because it's kilned less? (total guessing here now)
 
IME, the lighter the crystal malt the more head retention and body it contributes to the beer.

IMO, carapils/carafoam gets a bit of a bad rep because it is often touted as a head formation/retention cure-all (i.e. a 'crutch'). You don't need it to get great head but imo it has it's place. It should not add much if any sweetness.
 
Ok so I was misunderstood when I said crystal is not for head retention.

what I meant to get across is that you never see someone add crystal to their recipe for head retention, yet you see carapils additions all the time.

crystal does add to head retention, just as wheat and flaked grains do. bu you wouldn't add crystal to an american pilsner for head retention
 

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