Reinheitsgebot vs. irish moss/fermcap/gelatin

Since I make 5 gallon batches in a 7.5 gallon kettle, I have really come to like fermcap for how well it controls foaming over in the boil kettle. I put 6-12 drops in.

I also bought some Whirlfloc tablets just yesterday. I'm going to start using them because I'm not real happy with how clear my beers are. I heard Whirlfloc really helps the cold break if you add it to the last 15 minutes of the boil. Should I use 1 tablet or 1/2 tablet?

I have also heard that Gelatin/isinglass added to the secondary can help clear up beer. How much? When do you add it?

None of these additives are technically allowed under the Reinheitsgebot. How big of a deal is that? How many people strictly follow the Reinheitsgebot and only use barley, hops and yeast? The way I see it, even yeast has nutrients and stuff added. Is there an ethic to this? Should I tell people that my beer isn't "really" beer, and that I use simethecone and irish moss?

I would warn any vegetarians if you use gelatin/isinglass in your beer. My wife is one, so I do not use it.

BetterSense said:

None of these additives are technically allowed under the Reinheitsgebot. How big of a deal is that? How many people strictly follow the Reinheitsgebot and only use barley, hops and yeast? The way I see it, even yeast has nutrients and stuff added. Is there an ethic to this? Should I tell people that my beer isn't "really" beer

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The Reinheitsgebot is so antiquated it originally didn't include yeast because people weren't aware it existed. Personally, I see no reason to follow it. My understanding is it was created to help keep the cost of other grains such as wheat and rye low since they were illegal to brew with.

Do you prime your beers with corn sugar? That's not allowed either, you'd have to krausen your finished wort to carbonate it. I say screw the Reinheitsgebot, I'm keeping my whirlfloc, and anything else I want to put in my beer.

PS: There aren't many (if any) breweries in the US that follow the Reinheitsebot.

Not a big deal to me. It's your beer and you do whatever you want it.

Okay, I will ask and hijack this thread -- what is your process Uniondr?

there are things in your tap water that probably violate the reiheitsgabooty. I see no purpose in a homebrewer following this. Homebrewing is about expression, creativity and beer! Not rules.

Irish moss + patience + cold crashing = crystal clear beers for me.

Full starch conversion + Whirlfloc + a quick chill + gelatin +2 weeks in the keg = commercial level clarity for me. I'll keep my whirlfloc and gelatin.

LKABrewer said:

I would warn any vegetarians if you use gelatin/isinglass in your beer. My wife is one, so I do not use it.

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That's why I never use gelatin. Well, that, and my beer is clear without it. Most people would assume beer to be vegetarian friendly, and I wouldn't want to have to inquire with people what their dietary restrictions were before giving them a beer.

A good hotbreak, a good cold break (yes, I use whirfloc- one tablet- in the boil), a flocculant yeast strain, plus a couple of weeks equals perfectly clear beer anyway, with no need for gelatin (a meat by-product) or isinglass (from fish).

monstar said:

irish moss + patience + cold crashing = crystal clear beers for me.

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+1

Use gelatin if you want, unless you really care about what old crusty bavarians from centuries ago thought about what should or should not go into beer to prevent brewers and bakers to create a wheat shortage.

scottland said:

The Reinheitsgebot is so antiquated it originally didn't include yeast because people weren't aware it existed. Personally, I see no reason to follow it. My understanding is it was created to help keep the cost of other grains such as wheat and rye low since they were illegal to brew with.

Do you prime your beers with corn sugar? That's not allowed either, you'd have to krausen your finished wort to carbonate it. I say screw the Reinheitsgebot, I'm keeping my whirlfloc, and anything else I want to put in my beer.

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+1 QFT

Make beer don't sweat about some crazy, historic and abolished german law.

LKABrewer said:

I would warn any vegetarians if you use gelatin/isinglass in your beer. My wife is one, so I do not use it.

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my GF and her family are jewish and keep kosher, so using gelatin moves the beer from being meat/dairy-neutral into the meat category. so i have to be judicious about which beers i use gelatin in, if I decide to share homebrew with them.

some pro brewers in the US will abide by the german purity law in order to give their german style beers more german-beer street cred, I guess. There are a lot of old restrictions and processes in brewing that people maintain out of respect for tradition more than the impact it has on the flavor itself... this is one of those, IMO.

thegerm said:

my GF and her family are jewish and keep kosher, so using gelatin moves the beer from being meat/dairy-neutral into the meat category. so i have to be judicious about which beers i use gelatin in, if I decide to share homebrew with them.

some pro brewers in the US will abide by the german purity law in order to give their german style beers more german-beer street cred, I guess. There are a lot of old restrictions and processes in brewing that people maintain out of respect for tradition more than the impact it has on the flavor itself... this is one of those, IMO.

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Ah, I never thought about the kosher aspect. I only have one friend (a teammate) who is kosher, but I never really thought about finings impacting that, just the vegan/vegetarian part of it.

It's one of those things that people can disagree on. But whenever I use anything in brewing, I'm always asking 'Why? What's the benefit to adding this?' For something like gelatin, I see no benefit- but I see some drawbacks so it's just not for me.

If you are seeking better clarity, why not invest in a filter? I have one and it gets used on occasion for comp beers or when I have a beer that just wont clear.

I have an APA, non-dry hopped. The yeast was an iffy slurry and it stalled out, the beer was incredibly hazy and murky even after pitching some dry yeast and it finishing out at 1.009.

It has been in the carboy "lagering" at 35° for almost 5 months, it has been racked to 3 other carboys now to clear it off sediment, but there never is much that drops out and it is still as cloudy as a young hefe, I think a trip through a 0.5 micron filter ought to do the trick.

azscoob said:

If you are seeking better clarity, why not invest in a filter? I have one and it gets used on occasion for comp beers or when I have a beer that just wont clear.

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Why ?

Filter setup: 150$ +
Pack of knox gelatin: 50 cents.

$150?? gadzooks! I spent $19 on the housing, $36 on a reusable autoclavable filter, and another $15 on fittings and hose.

I use Knox, don't get me wrong, but the big issue is about adding something to the beer, resulting in non-vegan, non-Kosher, or non-Reinheitsgebot beer, as far as I know a filter meets all the above criteria and doesn't need to cost a fortune. I also like tinkering and making brew gear.

yeah those are all strong arguments for filtering. I don't filter simply because I haven't gotten around to buying that piece of brew kit yet, and gelatin is right there at the grocery store

azscoob said:

$150?? gadzooks! I spent $19 on the housing, $36 on a reusable autoclavable filter, and another $15 on fittings and hose.

I use Knox, don't get me wrong, but the big issue is about adding something to the beer, resulting in non-vegan, non-Kosher, or non-Reinheitsgebot beer, as far as I know a filter meets all the above criteria and doesn't need to cost a fortune. I also like tinkering and making brew gear.

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You do need a kegging setup to filter though.

jfr1111 said:

You do need a kegging setup to filter though.

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True, valid point.

There has to be Kosher Gelatin, right??

azscoob said:

There has to be Kosher Gelatin, right??

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gelatin isn't unkosher... it's just not meat/dairy neutral(aka parve). the big rule in eating kosher is not mixing meat and dairy. so yeah you can still drink a beer with gelatin and keep kosher, provided you're drinking it with a meal with meat, and not with dairy.

so for that complicating factor, you'd just tend to not use a meat or dairy derived ingredient so you can keep your beer parve and drink it with whatever you want.

there are different "levels" of keeping kosher though. that's all personal choice like a lot of thinks religious. and it can get more restrictive and complicated, but that's the basic gist.

I think pectin is technically similar to gelatin, but derived from fruit. I have no idea if it works the same as a clarifier though or in what ratio.

I use Fermcap. I use Irish Moss (well, I'm currently using the Five Star "Super Moss" product, which I guess is the extract of the pure ingredient in Irish Moss (carrageenan). As for the Reinheitsgebot, neither of those things were around when it was in effect, or they might have used them. And since the Reinheitsgebot doesn't exist any more, I can't see why anyone would feel compelled to follow it. Actually, the original Reinheitsgebot only allowed water, barley, and hops. The existence of yeast was unknown until the 19th century. So- I'm not gonna add yeast to my beer?

rico567 said:

The existence of yeast was unknown until the 19th century. So- I'm not gonna add yeast to my beer?

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and that's about when they amended it to include yeast.

It's my understanding and that of an actual historical beer historian that I met recently (yes, I guess they do exist), that the Reinheitsgebot does not preclude the use of fining agents. These fining agents drop out and are not found in the finished product.

As such, they are not considered ingredients but rather processes. Therefore, they are implicitly allowed under the 1516 doctrine.

So you could use wirlfloc, gelatin, Irish moss, and isinglass and none of that would violate the German purity law.

I've also heard that some german brewers that still claim to be reinheitsgebot compliant add gypsum to their water. that's not technically ok, but they do it anyway.

it seems to mostly boil down to "it's all-malt, no adjuncts" for the modern pro german brewer purposes.

thegerm said:

and that's about when they amended it to include yeast.

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Our point is its antiquated, and has little bearing on the modern homebrewer

Well, I just racked my SMASH APA to secondary, and I put a packet of gelatin from the grocery store in with it. We'll see if it comes any more clear. I'm not sure what to blame my cloudy beers on; maybe its my BIAB technique.

BetterSense said:

Well, I just racked my SMASH APA to secondary, and I put a packet of gelatin from the grocery store in with it. We'll see if it comes any more clear. I'm not sure what to blame my cloudy beers on; maybe its my BIAB technique.

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How fast do you chill ? Ever since I started using Whirfloc and got a wort chiller, the wort I produce is of great clarity post-boil. If I leave the kettle be for the crap to settle, I can see at the bottom of it in about 20 minutes.

On the other hand, it's been my experience that even cloudy and hazy wort can drop clear once the beer is fermented and left to its own devices in a cold environement.

A packet of gelatin is way too much. Even half a pack seems to be pushing it. It can strip off flavours and aromas.

thegerm said:

my GF and her family are jewish and keep kosher, so using gelatin moves the beer from being meat/dairy-neutral into the meat category. so i have to be judicious about which beers i use gelatin in, if I decide to share homebrew with them.
.

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I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread but using gelatin to my knowledge would not make something "meaty" as much as it would not be kosher at all as most gelatin comes from animals that are not kosher

unionrdr said:

I just developed a good process for myself that gets clear beers without additives. Just seems more natural to me. Wouldn't want anything beneficial in the beers make up to be lost. In my mind,anyway.

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Me too. It's called Cold Crashing, down to about 36* for a week.

Whirlfloc and cold crashing. Clear beer every time.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app

cimirie said:

It's my understanding and that of an actual historical beer historian that I met recently (yes, I guess they do exist), that the Reinheitsgebot does not preclude the use of fining agents. These fining agents drop out and are not found in the finished product.

As such, they are not considered ingredients but rather processes. Therefore, they are implicitly allowed under the 1516 doctrine.

So you could use wirlfloc, gelatin, Irish moss, and isinglass and none of that would violate the German purity law.

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Bingo !

Section 6 of the German Beer Purity Law states:

6.Only materials which act mechanically or by absorption and are thereafter removable, leaving no, or only such residue in the beer which is of no health, taste or odour concern may be used to clarify beer.

I'm not sure how often the original laws were changed, but as brewing science and techniques advance there will probably be even more changes.

bosco

Reinheitsgloobengleeben is still in effect in Bavaria in lager breweries. If finings are used the Inspector of Breweries has to be notified. As long as the fining is removed before packaging all is good. Beechwood came about for use in settling tanks because it is left in the tank.

I get a kick out of people who take the whole Reinheitsgebot seriously. The laws have no provisions in them as far as the water or anything in it that is used in process.

Germany was using and still installing lead pipe (yes LEAD ) for drinking water up until 1970. They have been drinking beer out of pewter steins for centuries and only the newest of them are lead free. As a matter of fact lead pipes are still being used all over Europe and only within the past few decades have any laws preventing it been put on the books. Lead pipe has been used in the USA up until the early 1900's, where 70% of New York City's domestic water travelled through lead pipes either in the main supplies or in home plumbing systems..

I'd rather drink a beer with a little moss, polyclar or fish scales in it than something made with water that comes out of lead pipes and fountains that date back to the Roman Era.


bosco