my first attempt at wine

Hello everyone, I don't really have any specific questions I just wanted to share what I plan on doing and see if anyone has any advice for me. I am attempting my first batch of Apple wine, I plan to bring my unpasteurized apple cider to 160° and add 2-3 cups of sugar to dissolve into it then pour it into my 5 gallon carboy and add Potassium metabisulfate, Pectic enzyme, and yeast nutrient according to the amounts on the lable. Airlock it and let it set for a week and siphone it into a five gallon bucket so I can clean the sediment out of my carboy and then siphon it back into that since my bucket isn't set for an airlock and I figure that raking it twice will be good for it anyway. After that I am going to let it ferment out completely and a week or two after it stops bubbling I will siphon back into my bucket a second time, add a stabilizer (pottasiom something ? I forget but I already bought it) and then backsweeten with a frozen juice concentrate and bottle it. Does that sound right? Any tips or advice?

Oh yea, and of course I am also going to add my wine yeast after it is cooled off and before I airlock. Can't forget that.

I've never heated my cider, but you don't have to use k-meta if you are doing so. If you're using the k-meta anyway, there is no point to pasteurizing the cider with heat as that is the purpose of the k-meta.

Normally, you mix up the cider but leave out the pectic enzyme, and yeast. You add the k-meta (also known as "campden"), and then 12 hours later add the pectic enzyme. Twelve hours after that, you add the yeast. The reason is that the k-meta is used to kill microbes like wild yeast and bacteria, and pectic enzyme works better when not added to a sulfite-heavy must. The sulfite dissipates quite a bit by then. The next day, the sulfites have dissipated even more and the chosen yeast strain is added.

You don't need an airlock for primary- you can use use a clean towel if you want, and then move it to the carboy when fermentation slows down a bit. That's when you do "secondary".

It probably won't be ready to bottle as quickly as your plan seems to indicate.

Thanks I will wait 12 and 24 hours for adding those. I don't have any k meta or Camden unless it is another name for something I listed and I don't realize it. I will research a bit before I start though. Should I heat it to dissolve the sugar or just stir it in? How long should I wait to bottle it and where in my plan do I add the extra time? Before I add the nutralizer and backsweeten?

justineaton said:

Thanks I will wait 12 and 24 hours for adding those. I don't have any k meta or Camden unless it is another name for something I listed and I don't realize it. I will research a bit before I start though. Should I heat it to dissolve the sugar or just stir it in? How long should I wait to bottle it and where in my plan do I add the extra time? Before I add the nutralizer and backsweeten?

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Potassium metabisulfite (K2S205) is the same as campden and/or k meta. Most people don't say "potassium metabisulfite" when talking, so k meta is a good abbreviated form of it and is quite commonly used to discuss that ingredient. It also comes in tablet form, and that's called "campden tablets".

Sugar dissolves better in warm liquids, but I"ve never made apple wine by heating the juice so I'm not sure what to tell you to do. Here's the recipe I normally use: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f79/apple-juice-wine-27602/

Ok, what does it mean when it says recover primary?

justineaton said:

Ok, what does it mean when it says recover primary?

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Re cover, as in "take the cover off, do what you have to do, and then put the cover back on".

After re-reading I figured that out, thanks for all the help. It is in my secondary beer vessel with the spigot on the bottom with a lid sitting loosely on top but after 10 days I will siphon it into one of my good glass carboy's. I have alarms set to make sure I don't forget to add my next two steps and then I'm following all instructions in that link except for the tannins because I didn't buy that today. This first batch probably went much better than it would have without your advise and I greatly appreciate it!

justineaton said:

After re-reading I figured that out, thanks for all the help. It is in my secondary beer vessel with the spigot on the bottom with a lid sitting loosely on top but after 10 days I will siphon it into one of my good glass carboy's. I have alarms set to make sure I don't forget to add my next two steps and then I'm following all instructions in that link except for the tannins because I didn't buy that today. This first batch probably went much better than it would have without your advise and I greatly appreciate it!

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It'll be fine where it is, and then when you move it to the carboy you can airlock and top up so that you don't have headspace.

I'm glad to help, so if you have any questions, just ask!

When I switch it over, just add water or cider to bring it right up to the rubber stopper right? If my final gravity turns out the same as in the link you posted it should be a little over 13% abv should I add sugar water to maintain that as best I can? I will back sweeten this and Nock it down a bit anyway and I would like to keep it as close to 12% as possible

justineaton said:

When I switch it over, just add water or cider to bring it right up to the rubber stopper right? If my final gravity turns out the same as in the link you posted it should be a little over 13% abv should I add sugar water to maintain that as best I can? I will back sweeten this and Nock it down a bit anyway and I would like to keep it as close to 12% as possible

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You should be in the ballpark, even topping up with water. If you're really worried, you could top up in the latter rackings with a white wine.

I just racked it for the second time I didn't have any white wine on hand so I topped it up with water. I'm not to worried about the abv especially since I changed my mind about backsweetening it. It needed more water to top it off than I expected, should I have been doing that all along or only when I rack it? Thanks

justineaton said:

I just racked it for the second time I didn't have any white wine on hand so I topped it up with water. I'm not to worried about the abv especially since I changed my mind about backsweetening it. It needed more water to top it off than I expected, should I have been doing that all along or only when I rack it? Thanks

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The purpose of topping it off is mainly to get rid of the airspace between the top of the wine and the bottom of the airlock stopper. After you rack for the first time in the secondary, and fit an airlock, that's when you can start worrying about topping up.

Primary fermentation, when it's most active, utilizes the availble oxygen to thrive. So a covered bucket can be a good thing. After fermentation slows, like yooper mentioned, you rack into a secondary. That's when I normally top up with water. I leave about 2 inches of space from the wine to the airlock.

Plus, adding the appropriate amount of sulfites at every other racking helps to prevent oxidation. But i'll admit that most of the time, I don't do that because I tend to leave the wine in the secondary for a long time and bottle it from the secondary once it's clear, depending on how much sediment builds up on the bottom.

Primary I didn't even put the lid on, it has been in secondary two months and this is the first time I have racked it from carboy to carboy. I didn't really word that well, since it is actually the second time I have racked it. While it is in carboy should I keep it topped off when I notice it is evaporating or only when I rack it every other month? Thanks

justineaton said:

Primary I didn't even put the lid on, it has been in secondary two months and this is the first time I have racked it from carboy to carboy. I didn't really word that well, since it is actually the second time I have racked it. While it is in carboy should I keep it topped off when I notice it is evaporating or only when I rack it every other month? Thanks

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The only time you'll need to top it off is right after you rack into a new carboy. Some of the wine and sediment are left behind in the old carboy which gives you less total wine volume in the next carboy. The wine won't evaporate while sitting in the carboy with an airlock.

I'd recommend racking as little as possible. Only when you need to while it's clarifying over time. You don't need to rack every other month if you don't have a noticable amount of sediment built up on the bottom.

[QUOTE="Normally, you mix up the cider but leave out the pectic enzyme, and yeast. You add the k-meta (also known as "campden"), and then 12 hours later add the pectic enzyme..[/QUOTE]

I have been noticing that a lot of recipes call for pectic enzyme, but not all recipes. How do you know when you should use pectic enzyme and when not to? Also I have seen a few recipes that call for pectin, how do you know when to use pectin?

[QUOTE="You don't need an airlock for primary- you can use use a clean towel if you want, and then move it to the carboy when fermentation slows down a bit..[/QUOTE]

I thought you had to starve the yeast for oxygen to get them to convert the sugar into oxygen and alcohol is a bi-product of that. If you use a towel, does it have to be a really thick towel so oxygen doesn't get in? Or is the CO2 coming out fast enough that it prevents the O2 from coming in? What if it ended up being a sluggish fermentation, would the towel still work?

Inkdrop said:

I have been noticing that a lot of recipes call for pectic enzyme, but not all recipes. How do you know when you should use pectic enzyme and when not to? Also I have seen a few recipes that call for pectin, how do you know when to use pectin?

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You can use it anytime, even if the recipe doesn't call for it. It breaks up the pectin in fruit, so you get more juice out of the fruit, so it's very useful for fruit wine making. When you're starting with juice instead of whole fruit, you can leave it out but it does help the wine clear and not have a "pectin haze" in it.

Inkdrop said:

I thought you had to starve the yeast for oxygen to get them to convert the sugar into oxygen and alcohol is a bi-product of that. If you use a towel, does it have to be a really thick towel so oxygen doesn't get in? Or is the CO2 coming out fast enough that it prevents the O2 from coming in? What if it ended up being a sluggish fermentation, would the towel still work?

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No. Yeast use oxygen for reproduction and oxygen is crucial for that process. After fermentation begins, they don't use oxygen anymore but since c02 is poisonous to yeast, stirring or leaving the primary open means that the c02 can more easily escape and giving you healthier yeast.

Since oxygen does ruin wine after fermentation, once fermentation slows done, the primary is covered and airlocked so that the c02 can still escape but oxygen can't bind with the wine.

March second will be my third time racking this wine with 2 months between. Right now it is very clear looking and I haven't gotten a single bubble in my airlock since the last time I racked it a month ago. My wife talked me into making this a sweet wine but I'm not sure exactly how to do it, I would like to use honey but am open to suggestions and would appreciate any advise.

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If it is clear and not dropping any more lees then rack it one last time onto sorbate and campton. Let sit a few days and backsweeten. Disolve your honey in a little of the wine before adding to the bulk of the wine. Backsweeten about a quart to tast befor you do the whole jug. That way if you get it too sweet you can add more unsweetened wine to fix it. Kinda hard to take out the sweetness in the whole batch. Add less then you think! It will devolop a sweeter flavore over time.
Personaly I would not backsweeten the whole batch. I would bottle it as is and then sweeten to taste by the glass or bottle just befor drinking it. A splash of frozen fruit juice concentrate in your glass of wine does a wonderfull job of sweetening. Especially if two people are sharing a bottle and only one likes it sweet.

Thank you, that is an excellent suggestion I think I will just bottle it unsweetened and sweeten by the glass. To dissolve honey into my wine should I heat a small amount of water to dissolve the honey in and then use the honey water to add to the glass?

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One more question, this is my first wine and I didn't really add anything to it for flavor just yeast nutrients and something to clear it up. Since then I see most recipes have tannin extract our something to get tannins from. I plan on cellering this for at least a year anyway is it to late to add that now?

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Don't be set on your racking time frames. I've made ciders that ran a wide range of times for ciders

Yup, either lighty heat up some wine or water, untill the honey is disolved. Using wine will maintain the full flavor. However as little water as you need it will not alter the taste significantly. Use witchever you want.
If you like the flavor as it is then there is no need to add anything. You can add tannin anytime. Give it a week or so after you add it for the flavor to meld fully. Try adding a tiny bit to a glass of the wine first. If you like how that taste you can dose the whole batch.
General rule of thumb, mess around with additions by the glass first! If it taste like crap you have only ruined one glass full. Second rule of thumb, wait! Time is your freind!

I just bottled it today, I decided not to sweeten. My wife likes sweet wine but I don't. I promised her a mullberry melomel though so I will sweeten some of that. Thanks for the advise everybody I had some of the last bottle which wasn't quit full enough to cork and even without the one year aging period it is great!

One last question, should I store them on their sides for the next year so the corks don't dry out?

Nice job.

Lay them on their sides. You are right in thinking that keeps the corks from drying out.


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Thanks, I have a wine rack that holds 20 bottles. Guess its time to buy a bigger one.

I was instructed to let it bottle age for one year, will it get better after that or is that when it peaks? My favorite hard cider (and always the clearest for some reason) is a pumpkin Apple cider. I just started a pumpkin Apple wine, it probably won't be quite ready for 2015 thanksgiving but close enough to open a bottle or two and try it.

justineaton said:

I was instructed to let it bottle age for one year, will it get better after that or is that when it peaks? My favorite hard cider (and always the clearest for some reason) is a pumpkin Apple cider. I just started a pumpkin Apple wine, it probably won't be quite ready for 2015 thanksgiving but close enough to open a bottle or two and try it.

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Some wines with complex flavors take longer to peak than others. If you look at your recipe, and the ABV, you can guestimate a likely aging time.

I used the recipe you linked at the start of this Thread. The final abv was 14%, which was higher than I expected.

If I were to stabilize and backsweeten would I still want to bottle age for one year? I'm thinking the pumpkin Apple wine may be better sweet and I did promise my wife a sweet wine next.

justineaton said:

I used the recipe you linked at the start of this Thread. The final abv was 14%, which was higher than I expected.

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I found a recipe for making a hard cider (apflewine) in a pumpkin..I dont know the exact recipe..but you will need paragon wax to re-seal the pumpkin after you remove the guts and toast the inside of the pumpkin with a burnzomatic torch. Then drill a hole to plug the airlock into...it sounded pretty cool when I read it..im gonna wait till next autumn and try it.

I have seen people do that and then put a tap on the pumpkin and set it out at a party. I make mine with libbys pure pumpkin added to my primary fermenter. It's the best hard cider I have made and I experiment a lot with it.

justineaton said:

I have seen people do that and then put a tap on the pumpkin and set it out at a party. I make mine with libbys pure pumpkin added to my primary fermenter. It's the best hard cider I have made and I experiment a lot with it.

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What spices do you prefer?

I usually make it without. I thought about using a can of libby's all natural pumpkin pie filling next time since the only difference between that and the all natural pumpkin is that it has pie spices in it.

So I just got a bottle of my Apple wine out to give to a friend and noticed a small amount of sediment. I gave this wine nine months before bottling and hadn't seen any signs of fermentation in a long time. Do you think maybe I just stirred a little sediment up when bottling? There was a fine layer in the carboy when I racked to my bottling bucket.