Stuck fermentation

I brewed a red ale 2 weeks ago and I hit the OG of 1.070, so not a huge beer but enough. I used a dry yeast from Windser, which I ave used many times before with no issues, but with smaller beers1.055 fish. Fermentation started as usual at about 20 hours(or the bubbles did) and continued for about 12 hours. As i went was going to bed 48 hours later I noticed not only did the bubbles stop but the airlock was sitting down wit no pressure(3 piece airlock). I thought crap a seal went and not much more of it. I pressed down on the bucket lid all around hoping to reseal. No such luck!
When I opened it to check I had a small amount of the protein crud on the side of the bucket, and my gravity was 1.030, hoping for 1.016. SO I assume fermentation stopped when the airlock died. I tried to remedy by making a starter with some champagne yeast that I started with some dextrose (had no DME on hand). Its been 12 hours since I added the starter and I see no activity.
Any ideas are welcome!!! Hate to lose the batch because I like beer!

Keep checking the gravity to ensure that no fermentation is happening. I wouldn't rely on airlock activity. If you've still got no additional fermentation you may want to try a higher attenuation yeast.

Assuming that you are using a Hydrometer and not a refractometer for your readings. Is this an all grain batch? If so what was your mash temperature and are you sure your thermometer is accurate.

Agreed that you need to keep checking the gravity since you have added yeast.

What is the temperature of the wort? You might try warming it up a little to see if that restarts it.

If the temp did not drop the cup part of the airlock should not bottom out. If you have a decent amount of liquid in the airlock and you gently drop the cup part of the airlock into place so it traps some air in the cup and it bottoms out you do not have a air tight seal. When that happens I wet the seating area of the lid with starsan and put the lid back on and that usually fixes it. I mark lids that do that with a check mark and if they do it again I replace them.

The champagne yeast aren't very good at eating maltose/maltotriose so it isn't surprising it isn't doing anything.
The sugars wine yeast can handle are long gone...

Ok some answers to some questions:
1) Yes I am using a hydrometer
2) It is an all grain batch
3) The digital thermometer I usually use did not work for some reason, but I did use my dial one that I use for other functions. But it is not too precise, boils at a a line over 200.
4) Wort temp may be a culprit, as this is my first batch during the winter and I just noticed that my programable thermostat shows night temps in the house hitting 55ish degrees. So I may have accidentally made the yeast go to sleep. I have since changed the program to stay at 72 and trying to warm up the wort. I am hopeful that will kick start it!

That would make sense for the airlock bottoming out as well.

As for the champagne yeast that was what my LHB suggested. If my gravity says the same for another few days, after the temp increase, would you recommend pitching more of the original style of yeast?

I would first try rousing the yeast back into suspension by rocking/swirling the bucket before adding more yeast.

ba-brewer said:

I would first try rousing the yeast back into suspension by rocking/swirling the bucket before adding more yeast.

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Agreed, swirl gently, do not splash. That and warming it up should get you going, if it will.

If you need to add more yeast get one that will tolerate alcohol and is more aggressive than Windsor. I don't have a recommendation.

Also take a taste before you continue. At 1.030 it should be quite sweet. If it is not maybe your reading was off and/or all the sugars that can be fermented already have been.

Foghorn said:

Ok some answers to some questions:
1) Yes I am using a hydrometer
2) It is an all grain batch
3) The digital thermometer I usually use did not work for some reason, but I did use my dial one that I use for other functions. But it is not too precise, boils at a a line over 200.
4) Wort temp may be a culprit, as this is my first batch during the winter and I just noticed that my programable thermostat shows night temps in the house hitting 55ish degrees. So I may have accidentally made the yeast go to sleep. I have since changed the program to stay at 72 and trying to warm up the wort. I am hopeful that will kick start it!

That would make sense for the airlock bottoming out as well.

As for the champagne yeast that was what my LHB suggested. If my gravity says the same for another few days, after the temp increase, would you recommend pitching more of the original style of yeast?

Click to expand...

You shouldn't add any more yeast for 2 reasons;
The champagne yeast should finish the beer, if it is possible to ferment any lower.
The champagne yeast has a competitive factor that will kill or at least inhibit the ale/lager yeasts you might add to it.
Good luck.

Ok I raised the temp of the wort to 72-73 degrees, and swirled for bit. I have no change in points. The taste is not overly sweet to me or my wife. So I guess maybe my mash temp was not right? What confuses me is if I have unfermentable sugars due to high (or low, but I think the error would be on the high side) temps, that the hydrometer is measuring, why does it not taste real sweet, I think it would.
As for the comment posted by Day tripper: "The champagne yeast aren't very good at eating maltose/maltotriose so it isn't surprising it isn't doing anything." Why is champagne yeast seem to be a common suggestion? Thinking about it makes sense, but since I design telecommunications circuits for a living, i do not know the chemistry/biology of it! Some thing to research I guess.
The end is: I will rack to a secondary to allow some clarification, in hopes of rousing the yeast one more time, and will keg if no reduction in points and see what a FG1.030 beer tastes like!

Rousing is not a real thing. Don't bother. Don't rack to second fermentor. Don't settle for 1.030. You're kidding yourself that it'll be good to drink later.

Have a look here for an idea that will probably save your beer: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597469.

Foghorn said:

[...]As for the comment posted by Day tripper: "The champagne yeast aren't very good at eating maltose/maltotriose so it isn't surprising it isn't doing anything." Why is champagne yeast seem to be a common suggestion? [...]

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Over time you see a lot of suggestions made frequently that make little sense.

Champagne yeast is very handy for "naturally" carbonating high-ABV beers, because it can tolerate the ABV and plow through simple sugars with aplomb. Aside from that, it's not much use to beer brewers, imo.

Ale yeast are also very good at digesting simple sugars - one should assume those are the very first to go after pitching - plus they digest the sugars like maltose and maltotriose that predominate mashing malted grains - something champagne yeast basically sucks at because it wasn't selected to do that job...

Cheers!

Foghorn said:

Ok I raised the temp of the wort to 72-73 degrees, and swirled for bit. I have no change in points. The taste is not overly sweet to me or my wife. So I guess maybe my mash temp was not right? What confuses me is if I have unfermentable sugars due to high (or low, but I think the error would be on the high side) temps, that the hydrometer is measuring, why does it not taste real sweet, I think it would.

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There is something called relative bitter ratios which compares different beer styles and how their bitterness level are perceived. I forget the point at where beers are perceived as balanced and bitter, but IPAs are generally pretty far from the point of being balanced so it would take a very high final gravity to taste sweet.

What was your target IBUs and mash temp?

passedpawn said:

Rousing is not a real thing. Don't bother. Don't rack to second fermentor. Don't settle for 1.030. You're kidding yourself that it'll be good to drink later.

Have a look here for an idea that will probably save your beer: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597469.

Click to expand...

Sssh, dont let the two beers which finish lower after be roused hear that it is "not a real thing". The yeast used were WY1469 west yorkshire and WY2112 cal lager.

I did have one that it did not work though. That one did get going with a dose of fresh yeast slurry. That beer used WY1099 whitbread.

It seems like some of the more flocculent british strains are prone to dropping out early, and people are able to rouse them back into action. I have also seen people comment that they perform better with more oxygen then the average ale yeast.

I dont know why or how rousing works but it does seems to work sometimes. It costs nothing and is easy to do so why not give it a try.

Reading your post it seem like amylase enzymes are appropriate for case where someone mashes too high or has a bad mix of grain, but it was unclear the OP had either of those issues(bad temp control maybe). Are amylase enzymes a fix all and how to decide when to use it?

Foghorn said:

What confuses me is if I have unfermentable sugars due to high (or low, but I think the error would be on the high side) temps, that the hydrometer is measuring, why does it not taste real sweet, I think it would.

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According to the book "Yeast", complex carbohydrates increase FG but don't add to the residual sweetness.

ba-brewer said:

Reading your post it seem like amylase enzymes are appropriate for case where someone mashes too high or has a bad mix of grain, but it was unclear the OP had either of those issues(bad temp control maybe). Are amylase enzymes a fix all and how to decide when to use it?

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Adding enzymes helps some, but not all. Not sure why. Whenever I hear of the "stuck fermentation" and the ABV isn't so high that the yeast might be dead, I consider enzymes the best solution. Regarding "rousing", I find it hard to believe that does anything, but it's hard to argue with somebody else's real experiences

Ok quick update: I made a starter with Safale-US05 on the 12th added it on the 13th. I got pressure and airlock activity by that PM. How long should I let it go? I usually have fermentation finish in 7 -10 days, but since it was already halfway there would that change the timing? Before I move it to the keg I will wait till my readings are the same, but just wondering when I should check again?

Ok so I kegged after a week and FG got to 1.020 or 1.018 at best! But after a week in the keg and with carbonation the beer tastes quite good. I have shared with a few friends and had gotten statements of my best beer yet! I think it is one of better as well, but now I am thinking how will I ever recreate this beer? Between the extended period in the primary (6 weeks total) and another 3 in the secondary, still a bit cloudy, but I drink through that!
With the additions of champagne yeast and a second dose of safale #5! I wonder how that did affect the final product and how the effect can be replicated. I plan on trying this again and seeing what will happen. Just purchased a new digital thermometer and will try next weekend.

I just wanted to take a second and thank all who commented and gave some valuable advice!