German Helles Exportbier Silver Medal 2016 Bluegrass Cup - Dortmunder Export

Grain Bill
10 lbs Pilsner Malt
1.5 lbs Munich Malt
4 oz. Melanoiden Malt

Hops
1.5 oz Hallertaur (4.8% AA) 60 min
0.5 oz Hallertaur 10 min
0.5 oz Hallertaur 5 min

Single Infusion @ 154F, Batch Sparge




http://www.singingboysbrewing.com/Dortmunder-Export.html

Me likey!

Family will be in Chicago weekend of September 10th for the Supernatural convention (Chicon). Save some for me!

Homercidal said:

Me likey!

Family will be in Chicago weekend of September 10th for the Supernatural convention (Chicon). Save some for me!

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Oh no! I'll be in northern California that week! Am traveling there for work and because I'm already going to be there committed to staying the weekend to judge at a competition in Sonoma County.

Well that sucks! The convention is much earlier this year.

Guess I'll have to drink some area commercial beers instead.

Homercidal said:

Well that sucks! The convention is much earlier this year.

Guess I'll have to drink some area commercial beers instead.

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Nancy will be disappointed, also.

Just doughed in with this one. Looks like a fine recipe.

Any updates on this one?

Brewed this today, except I'm using WLP830 in a 3 liter starter since that's what I have on hand.

I’m going to try it with Imperial yeast Harvest. Just waiting on it to come in.

Gave it a taste the other day - it needs a little more lagering, but early tastes were pretty darn good.

JonM said:

Gave it a taste the other day - it needs a little more lagering, but early tastes were pretty darn good.

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Do you know what your fermentation schedule was like? How does it taste and what do you feel like extended lagering would contribute to the flavor?

I did a double pitch of 37/70 and fermented at 56, followed by a D-rest, followed by a chilling to lager temps, a dose of gelatin, carbing and lagering.

The last taste was pretty yeasty. Now the yeast has dropped out. It’s crystal clear and damn tasty.

It looks good. I'm learning lagers, this is on the list.

I have been trying to make one of these for a couple of years after having one at an Oktoberfest. I always thought it was a hellesbock but I just recently learned that what I had was a Dortmunder export. I never even knew the style existed haha. I can’t wait to brew this! It’s next on my list.

I need to brew another batch of this, also.

What water profile should I use? Brewers friend has a dortmunder de carbonated profile
Dortmund (historic and decarbonated)
Ion Profile in ppm
Ca2+ Mg2+ Na+ Cl- SO42- HCO3-
155 23 10 100 300 53

Or should I just go with a lager profile?
Pilsen (Light Lager)
Ion Profile in ppm
Ca2+ Mg2+ Na+ Cl- SO42- HCO3-
7 3 2 5 5 25

I just went with 5g of calcium chloride in 4 gal of RO mash water. Kept it nice and simple and it worked out great.

I've slowly working through most of the German/Bavarian styles, going to work this in when lagering space comes available.
Gives me an a reason to try out a new yeast.
Fermenting at 40F is below the Wyeast recommended range, and I'm way too impatient for a 5 week fermentation schedule, so I'll probably start low and ramp it up using the "quick lager" method.

I followed the recipe exactly but did a fast fermentation. My OG was 1.064 and FG was predicted to be 1.018 which is where it is now. I don’t detect any diacetyl so I think I will cold crash and transfer to my serving keg this weekend and let it sit for a week or 2.

Br3w4u said:

I followed the recipe exactly but did a fast fermentation. My OG was 1.064 and FG was predicted to be 1.018 which is where it is now. I don’t detect any diacetyl so I think I will cold crash and transfer to my serving keg this weekend and let it sit for a week or 2.

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1.018 is pretty high for this style, although your OG was higher, too. How fast was your fermentation and are you going to lager it?

Pappers_ said:

1.018 is pretty high for this style, although your OG was higher, too. How fast was your fermentation and are you going to lager it?

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I thought it was high too but brewers friend showed that would be my FG and it seems to be right. I did 50 F for 3 days then raised the temp 2 degrees every 6 hours until I got it to 64 F. I left it at 64 for a day and it was at 1.018 the next day so about 7 days total. I am leaving it on the yeast at 50 F for 7 days then cold crashing and transferring. Then I will let it condition in the serving keg for a week or more depending on how it tastes.

The last taste I had was good but it has more body than I would expect. I’m not sure why mine was different though because I followed the recipe exactly. I used the balanced water profile on brewers friend and my mash PH was 5.3

The differences would be:

1. Your OG is six points higher
2. Your fermentation was completely different

I'm not surprised its different, but that doesn't mean your batch isn't good.

Br3w4u said:

The last taste I had was good but it has more body than I would expect. I’m not sure why mine was different though because I followed the recipe exactly. I used the balanced water profile on brewers friend and my mash PH was 5.3

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Changing the fermentation schedule, the OG, and the water chemistry really does make a difference. Your beer will likely be very good, just different than the original.

I figured out why my OG was too high. I used cara Munich instead of Munich . The beer turned out pretty good but probably more like an Oktoberfest because of the sweetness. I will try it again with the right recipe next time.

I brewed this today. Used step mashing instead of single infusion. I did the same recipe a couple weeks ago. Also step mashing. Substituted Cascade hops for that one. I had just kegged an ale, and had a nice cake of ale yeast sitting there, which I hated to let go to waste. So I pitched it on that. That batch is in the keg now, and I was drinking it whilst brewing today. This time I used Hallertauer hops, and a single pack of 34/70. Hoping it’s enough. It was already getting a slight amount of airlock activity after a couple hours. So I think we’re good. The only thing I’m worried about is fermentation temperature. I don’t have a good way to control it, other than leaving it on the basement floor. Which does stay fairly cool.

Fermentation was going strong this morning. Feeling good about this so far. It’s supposed to get very warm this week, so a little worried about upcoming fermentation temps.

This batch had very vigourous fermentation for a few days. It was just at, or slightly above, the recommended temperature range. Low 70's. Picked up a small kegorator the middle of the week, and started using that as a fermentation chamber. It's been sitting at about 50* since. Not sure how this will end up. The ale version I did previous is "very drinkable" as my wife said. If the lager version is a little cleaner tasting, it will be quite good. I plan to try it again soon, and use the FC yje whole time to see what difference there is.

I have brewed this basic recipe a few times now, but using pale malt instead of Pilsner. I picked up 10lbs of Pilsner, and plan to try it again. Maybe this weekend.

The batch I referenced above didn’t taste very good at the point I kegged it, and I was kinda worried. But it really changed after a few weeks cold in the keg. It was quite good. The hops had a clarity that really loved. On that batch I did step mashing. The one I have waiting in the keg now I did single infusion as suggested by the OP. I’m hoping it cleans up like the last batch did.

RePete said:

I have brewed this basic recipe a few times now, but using pale malt instead of Pilsner. I picked up 10lbs of Pilsner, and plan to try it again. Maybe this weekend.
. . . .

batch I did step mashing. The one I have waiting in the keg now I did single infusion as suggested by the OP. I’m hoping it cleans up like the last batch did.

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I think you'll notice a big difference on this beer (and many lagers) with using Pilsner malt over pale - the lack of esters really lets the bready maltiness of pilsner shine through, for my palate at least.

FWIW, for many German styles I now routinely do a double decoction, including Dortmunders, and am generally pleased with it.

Thanks. I just had a 50lb bag of pale malt sitting there, so that’s what I used.
If this turns out, I will go buy a 50lb bag of Pilsner.

I have this Robobrew, and it’s easy to just program the steps in. So I’ll probably do step mashing again.

If you are doing double decoction, are you still adding the Melanoiden? From what I have read, it’s something added to approximate the taste of decoction mashing.

RePete said:

Thanks. I just had a 50lb bag of pale malt sitting there, so that’s what I used.
If this turns out, I will go buy a 50lb bag of Pilsner.

I have this Robobrew, and it’s easy to just program the steps in. So I’ll probably do step mashing again.

If you are doing double decoction, are you still adding the Melanoiden? From what I have read, it’s something added to approximate the taste of decoction mashing.

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I do, but I think you're right.

So, I brewed this yesterday. 10 lbs of pilsner malt, and 1 1/2 lbs Munich. I skipped the melanoiden. The OG was 1.054. So...close. I did step mashing on this one

One thing I am wondering. I have been using Saflager 34/70 . This is the 3rd batch I will have used it. The first one tasted kind of funny, but then cleaned up. The second batch has been in the keg a couple weeks. It has a bubblegum kind of taste to it. I'm thinking that it must be the yeast. I found another thread where someone mentioned this with 34/70. I put that keg back in the fridge, and am hoping it cleans up.

I'm trying it again. May switch to the yeast the OP used if this one doesn't turn out well.

I kept the previous batch in the keg a while longer, and the bubblegum taste has mostly gone away. It’s quite nice at this point. A really clean taste with hops that shine through. I really like this recipe.

In another thread I think we figured out that the bubblegum taste comes from under pitching yeast. I was just using one package. The last batch is still in the fermenter, but I tasted it and it doesn’t have that taste. I used 2 packages this time.

This recipe looks good! How sweet is this Dortmunder?

This recipe has become one of my favorites. I’ve brewed several variations depending on supplies on hand, and have a batch on tap at the moment. Yes, it is best with Pilsner malt. I wouldn’t call it sweet. As the OP said above, Pilsner malt gives it a bread maltiness. The hops shine through without it being overly bitter.

Sounds great, any idea what the ABV is?

ABV is around 6%.

Am going to brew this again, after about a year-and-a-half of not brewing a Dortmunder. Don't have the Danish Lager yeast so am going to use a German lager yeast, and build it up in a 3 gallon extract batch/starter. Wooohooo!

Brewed this today, hit 1.058 SG and used 2 oz hallertau mittelfruh and 0.5 oz hallertau blanc at flameout (cause i had some in the freezer!). I used 2 packets of 34/70 and it’s in my 59F laundry room. Can’t wait, thanks for the recipe, I like several elements of this variant.

Dan