TRIPEL - Fermentation Temps backwards?

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HomeBrewDan

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Hello fellow brewers, new member here and I was hoping to get some help on my second brew.

I started up on my second ever 5 gal batch of beer (Belgian Tripel using extract/steeping grains) this previous Wednesday (25th). I started by popping the smack-pack of Wyeast 1388 at 10AM and letting it float in 74*F water for about three hours. I then brewed up a half gallon batch to use as a starter and pitched the yeast into there, about 3 hours before I was ready to pitch it into the 6.5g carboy. Starter airlock was pretty active at this point. I pitched the yeast into the carboy around 6-7 hours after popping the smack pack.

When I pitched the yeast the carboy was at around 72-75F and the fermentation during the first three days was in the mid to lower 70's. Over the past three days the carboy has dropped to about 67/68 degrees F. Airlock shows bubbles every 3-4 secs.

I noticed that many here say to start a tripel out at lower temps (65F) and after 3 or so days raise to mid 70's. I did this backwards... My question then is what effect will this have on my overall product, if any?

Should I raise the temp of the carboy? I have no great way of doing this except buying a heater. I keep the house at about 64-69F ambient.

Thanks for the knowledge- Dan
 
You might get some fruity esters but your beer will be fine. I wouldn't raise the temp at all.
 
Belgian yeasts might throw off fusel alcohols in the mid-70 range as well. If this beer ends up giving you a headache more than other brews, fermentation temp may be the reason.

Not sure where you are at in the process, but lowering ferm temps can also lead to under-attenuation as well. Are you hitting your estimated FG?

Overall, I agree it will probably be fine, just maybe not as clean as it could be.
 
I started with an OG of 1.092 on Wed evening. I haven't checked the gravity since pitching the yeast. I need to buy a turkey baster, large syringe, or some sort of skinny tube on a stick so I can pull beer out of the carboy. I'd rather not use a racking cane to pull a few ounces out of the primary. My plan was to wait another week, rack to secondary, and take a reading then.

By the way, my recipe used:
12#LME (1 gallon),
1lb steeping grains (.5 Belgian aromatic, .5 Munich),
.5lb corn sugar, and
3oz hops (hallertauer, saaz)
Boiled in 4 gal water.
Starter + 0.25g water + .5ish gal wort = a hair over 5 gal

Should I be hitting my FG at day #6 with an OG of 1.092?
I just realized the OG I took doesn't account for the .25gal water and .5 gal of starter-wort I put in after I racked to 4.5gal of wort over... so my OG is probably a hair off...
 
"Should I be hitting my FG at day #6 with an OG of 1.092?"

If it is still bubbling every three to four seconds my guess is that you are not quite there yet. I'm not sure what the attenuation of the yeast you are using is but I would not be at all suprised if your fg is well over 1.020. Let us know how it comes out.
 
JonK331 said:
"Should I be hitting my FG at day #6 with an OG of 1.092?"

If it is still bubbling every three to four seconds my guess is that you are not quite there yet. I'm not sure what the attenuation of the yeast you are using is but I would not be at all suprised if your fg is well over 1.020. Let us know how it comes out.
Click to expand...

Not surprised if my FG WILL be over 1.020 when i am finished or RIGHT NOW...???
 
I really like this tool (the thief) for taking readings. Plus if you sanitize things well enough you can just drain your wort back in.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID=5020

+1 on the fusel warning. I like to ferment my belgians at around 70-68 for the entire duration, but I don't need them to be all that fruity either. I think you should be ok.
 
livErD69 said:
I really like this tool (the thief) for taking readings. Plus if you sanitize things well enough you can just drain your wort back in.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/ProdByID.aspx?ProdID=5020

+1 on the fusel warning. I like to ferment my belgians at around 70-68 for the entire duration, but I don't need them to be all that fruity either. I think you should be ok.
Click to expand...

how well does this tool work at not pulling in all the settled out yeast/crap in the bottom?
 
HomeBrewDan said:
My plan was to wait another week, rack to secondary, and take a reading then.
Click to expand...

I would recommend against racking to secondary before you know you've reached FG. I take gravity readings at one week intervals and when I get the same reading two weeks in a row, I know it's finished and I've given the yeast a whole week to clean up after themselves. Racking too early can leave you with a stuck fermentation.
 
Mellman said:
how well does this tool work at not pulling in all the settled out yeast/crap in the bottom?
Click to expand...

I have one of those and I really like it. Stick it into your fermenter about halfway. Then drop your hydrometer in the tube. Shake the thief up and down several times and it will fill up the tube (there's a valve at the bottom). Once you've filled it up enough, you can spin the top of the hydrometer and take your reading. Once you have your reading, pull the hydrometer out. Then lift up the thief almost all the way out and lean the valve against the inside wall of your bucket/carboy. This will let the beer drain back into your fermenter.

Obviously you really want make sure your hydrometer and thief are well sanitized before you dip them in.
 
Yep, EvilGnome6 beat me to it, you don't need to push it all the way down into the trub, actually I would recommend against doing that.
 
I decided to rack to secondary today to make room for another batch tomorrow (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/recipe-what-do-you-think-150011/#post1717265). The fermentation was pretty slow at this point.

So I took 4 TSP of yeast nutrient and tossed that into he bottom of the carboy and racked on top of it. I did kick up some of the yeast cake too to try and get this fermentation moving along again. The gravity reading was at 1.040. So I think this batch is going to have to sit in secondary for 2 weeks, at minimum.

The Sample beer tasted good. It was definitely on the sweet side. I was tempted to boil up another 1/2lb of cornsugar and throw that into the secondary as well but I decided against it. The OG reading gave me an alcohol potential of 12% so I think it ought to end up in the 9-10% range. There were some fruity hints in the beer but not as many as I had hoped for. Maybe more will come with time? My temp is at67-68 right now.

I can't wait... :ban: :drunk:

(Also I dumped maybe 12oz of distilled water into the carboy, swirled and saved a pint jar of my WY1388 Belgian Strong Ale off the yeast cake)
 
HomeBrewDan said:
I decided to rack to secondary today to make room for another batch tomorrow (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/recipe-what-do-you-think-150011/#post1717265). The fermentation was pretty slow at this point.
So I took 4 TSP of yeast nutrient and tossed that into he bottom of the carboy and racked on top of it. I did kick up some of the yeast cake too to try and get this fermentation moving along again. The gravity reading was at 1.040. So I think this batch is going to have to sit in secondary for 2 weeks, at minimum.

The Sample beer tasted good. It was definitely on the sweet side. I was tempted to boil up another 1/2lb of cornsugar and throw that into the secondary as well but I decided against it. The OG reading gave me an alcohol potential of 12% so I think it ought to end up in the 9-10% range. There were some fruity hints in the beer but not as many as I had hoped for. Maybe more will come with time? My temp is at67-68 right now.

I can't wait... :ban: :drunk:

(Also I dumped maybe 12oz of distilled water into the carboy, swirled and saved a pint jar of my WY1388 Belgian Strong Ale off the yeast cake)
Click to expand...

What are your thoughts on this? Anyone? Did I put myself between a rock and a hard place buy starting with such a high (1.092) OG using mostly extract instead of less extract and feeding batches of sugar intermittently during the primary fermentation? Can I / should I add some cornsugar to the primary or am I at the limit of sugars for this Yeast (WY1388)?

Help from the Big Belgian guys would be great!! :fro:
 
HomeBrewDan said:
What are your thoughts on this? Anyone? Did I put myself between a rock and a hard place buy starting with such a high (1.092) OG using mostly extract instead of less extract and feeding batches of sugar intermittently during the primary fermentation? Can I / should I add some cornsugar to the primary or am I at the limit of sugars for this Yeast (WY1388)?

Help from the Big Belgian guys would be great!! :fro:
Click to expand...


At 1.040 I don't think you should have racked it off the yeast cake. I would have left it on the cake and warmed it up. You're also pushing the alcohol tolerance of Wyeast 1388 (which is 12%-13% according to the Wyeast site). That's going to be a sickeningly sweet beer.

I had one batch that was stuck at 1.040 and yeast nutrient didn't budge it. Not until I pitched another starter of the same yeast did it start moving again and it crapped out again around 1.020 (and it's still too sweet of a beer). If I had to do it over again, I'd probably pitch a starter with a different, more alcohol tolerant strain.
 
Well, several hours after I racked it over (mid you I did kick up quite a bit of the yeast cake while racking) I can see CO2 formation clearly. I mean, it IS still fermenting, and Im getting bubbles out of the airlock at one per 2-4 seconds. I'm just wondering if I can get it to finish to FG? This beer has been with yeast for 8 days now... I'd imagine such a large beer might take 2 weeks or more to finish up fermentation. I just needed that carboy for my next batch.

I will try warming it first. It is at 68F now. If I don't get to my FG should I try Beano? (That is the flatulence pill correct? lol)
 
HomeBrewDan said:
Well, several hours after I racked it over (mid you I did kick up quite a bit of the yeast cake while racking) I can see CO2 formation clearly. I mean, it IS still fermenting, and Im getting bubbles out of the airlock at one per 2-4 seconds. I'm just wondering if I can get it to finish to FG? This beer has been with yeast for 8 days now... I'd imagine such a large beer might take 2 weeks or more to finish up fermentation. I just needed that carboy for my next batch.
Click to expand...

If it's still at 1.040 after 8 days and you have slow bubbling like you describe, I would expect it to take at least 3 more weeks to finish out as is. Warming it up to 75-80F will help and repitching can speed up the process, too. Since you washed yeast from the primary, you can make a 1L starter with some of it and pitch it in. That has worked very well for me before but YMMV.

I will try warming it first. It is at 68F now. If I don't get to my FG should I try Beano? (That is the flatulence pill correct? lol)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't try Beano except as a very last resort. Repitching a starter from washed yeast from the primary or pitching a starter from a different strain would be preferable, IMHO.
 
Three weeks is a long time to wait, but all good things come in time. :D

I have no great way of warming the carboy, as I would need to run and extension cord.

Maybe I can tuck a couple of "hot-hands" hand warmers underneath the carboy.:rockin:
 
Ok, so this has been in the "secondary" since 12/4/09, brewed on 11/25/09. I washed yeast that I saved from transferring to secondary, made a starter and let it go for a day and a half (I'm guessing I got about a cup of yeast out of that), and re-pitched it into the secondary. That brought the level of my 5 gallon carboy up to within 1.5" of the neck, so I can clearly see bubbles from fermentation as they roll up the top of the carboy.

The re-pitching definitely helped to boost the fermentation, and I have a reasonable sized yeast cake in the secondary as well ( +/- .75" thick). Temps have remained in the 66-70F range (varies with house temp, heat costs money and this is the dead of winter in WI).

I checked the gravity over New Years and it was reading 1.022. Thing is, it is STILL FERMENTING. The 3 pc airlock throws a bubble about 2x a minute, and has been this way for quite some time. Every once or twice a week, I will gently rouse the yeast to prevent a stuck fermentation. And it goes, and it goes, and it goes.

Now, at what point should I consider racking over into a fresh carboy? This has been on the yeast for 7 weeks now. When I racked over from the primary to secondary I intentionally pulled a lot of the yeast over because it was only about half way through fermenting, but I wanted to get another batch in the 6.5 gallon carboy (I have since added another 6.5 and 5 gallon to my 'tools' :) ) And then there was the addition of the washed yeast/starter after I racked it over.

Should I be concerned about picking up 'off flavors' from the yeast at this point, even though it is still fermenting lightly? Do I wait for no visible bubbles in the carboy and a set of level gravity readings? Or transfer over to a clean carboy and hope it finishes up in there?

(By the way I learned my lesson about pitching rates and my 1.088 RIS got the help of a generous starter, and it made quite the difference in initial fermentation... it has pretty much closed to within .015 points of the Tripel. RIS brewed on New Years Eve).

Sorry about the length but details help you to help me learn.
 

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