New e-HERMS build, questions.

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NautiDogBrewingCo.

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NautiDogBrewingCo
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After abandoning the gas fired brew stand (it gets too cold to brew outside in the winter) I've started poking around the idea of an e-HERMS system in the basement.

I currently have the dryer outlet near the proposed brewing area, 3 kettles, pumps, etc.

I've browsed Kal's site for hours. Looked at eBrewSupply and HighGravityBrew, too. I'd like to use two 4500/5500 watt elements (one in HLT, one in boil), two pumps (one water, one wort), a potentiometer on the boil element, push button LED switches for the pumps, a 3-way switch for the elements, element on LEDs, an E-stop, and a keyed power switch.

Do I need a 2nd PID for the mash tun? Or can I just continuously cycle the wort through the HEX in the HLT?

And do these mock-ups look OK? (see pics, v.1 has 1 PID and potentiometer; v.2 has 2 PIDs and potentiometer)

Any suggestions are welcome!!!

V-1-controller.jpg


V-2-controller.jpg
 
The top design is pretty much E-Brew Supply kit with the 2 PID 2 element hardware kit. I started with this kit then added to it to build a blend design based on KAL's setup. I say this to say I just did a test run in the HLT with a single 5500 watt camco element and was more than pleased with the speed of heating. Not sure that helps any.
 
5500 watt, that's good to know. I'll probably go that route.

Do you have a recommendation as to using two PIDs and the potentiometer? Or just the 1 HLT PID and then constant recirculating the MASH through the HEX?
 
I've not used it enough to make that determination. Just did an auto-tune on the HLT last night. What is the POT doing for you? I have a switch that selects either the HLT or BK circuit. I can fire one or the other, can' think why I'd do both unless you plan to do back to back brews. I say use a PID per element.
 
The potentiometer (i'd use this) would allow me to scale back power to the Boil element after it has reached the boil. Running full bore might be too much. The way i understand it, it basically replaces a Boil PID.

If i were to use 2 PIDs, one would control the HLT element to maintain or raise water temp. The other one would control the pump for the mash tun, switching it on/off based on mash temp which would send mash water through the HEX to raise the temp of the mash. My hang-up here is that if i maintain HLT temp at my mash temp and constantly cycle mash water through the HEX, i'd hit the mash temp and wouldn't need the Mash PID.
 
True I suppose, but say you are doing a step mash, then you would need to monitor mash temp. Not saying what you are doing is wrong we all have our own goals. Maybe someone with more experience in the arena can chime in. I've been brewing for 15 years but just starting the electric business. Hope to brew first batch next weekend.
 
you have many options...I sugest using the mypin "TD4" model pid which has manual mode everything the auber will do for half the cost.... They are usually about $25 shipped... The manual mode replaced the need to use a knob for manual but if you really want a knob you can add an ssrv and potentiometer like this one which I have used

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140553987088?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

4500w is really way more than enough for 10gallons or less...just be sure to use ULWD for the boil element.
switches and sensors can be had for about 50-75% less than the distributors in the states that stock them if you order them direct from china where they are almost all made.

I built my panel for under $300 using ebay and amazon for most of it...the enclosure I got from home depot for $30 and the wire I bought in a kit from harbor frieght as well as stock I had..
I power and control 3 DC pumps and also a rims tube so you wouldnt even need much of what I have...
Btw I have found (through advice from here) that the autotune is not even needed on the mypin if you just change the "i" setting to 1.. thay all work great for me this way without overshooting.

IMG_20141029_193057_644.jpg
 
thanks, auggie.

i'll look into the mypin PIDs.

where did you get your switches and LED lights from? I've seen them on Auber and eBrew supply but cannot seem to find what i am looking for on Amazon or eBay.
 
I've done some digging, considered a lot of options, and looked more in depth at my electrical panel.

I've decided upon 1 PID for the HLT and the Auber boil controller for the BK. Which leaves me at pic 1 posted above for panel design.

Here's the next decision to be made: I have access in my electrical panel to a 2 pole 40amp breaker (currently unused). But when we change over the kitchen range from electric to gas, I will have access to a 2 pole 50amp breaker. I know you can fire 2 elements at the same time with 50amp service, other than that, is there a benefit of 50amp over 40amp?

OR should I swap out the 2 pole 40amp breaker for a 2 pole 30amp breaker so that I do not have to use breakers in the brewery control panel?

Any help or suggestions are welcome.
 
I made some decisions and made some progress on this build. It'll be 50 amp, with 1pid and 1 boil controller, 2 pumps.

I got a 50amp gfci breaker from Amazon for $65. Cheaper than a spa panel. I got the rest of the wiring parts from HD. Put it into the service box this morning and wired it to the plug. I'll try to build the brew stand in the next few days. Then it'll be time for panel construction.

View attachment 1421947141543.jpg

View attachment 1421947155004.jpg

View attachment 1421947172479.jpg

View attachment 1421947189515.jpg
 
I'm interested to see where you go with this since I'm at the crossroads of where to go now. Currently my 240v is only being used to push a welder and I have a semi finished basement so this was the route I'm very much leaning toward.
 
I picked up a Surplus Store find this morning for $15. It's basically a really big surge protector. It has 10: 20amp standard outlets, powered by 2: L5-30 plugs connected to 10feet of SJT 10awg 300v wire each. One plug powers 5 outlets, the other powers the other 5. It's labeled circuit 1 and circuit 2 and has power meters for each circuit.

I was planning on parting it out to use the 2: 10 foot strands of SJT wire for my elements and a few of the outlets for my pumps.

I will probably have to scrap the L5-30 plugs because they are only rated for 125v. :mad:
 
augiedoggy said:
you have many options...I sugest using the mypin "TD4" model pid which has manual mode everything the auber will do for half the cost.... They are usually about $25 shipped... The manual mode replaced the need to use a knob for manual but if you really want a knob you can add an ssrv and potentiometer like this one which I have used

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140553987088?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

4500w is really way more than enough for 10gallons or less...just be sure to use ULWD for the boil element.
switches and sensors can be had for about 50-75% less than the distributors in the states that stock them if you order them direct from china where they are almost all made.

I built my panel for under $300 using ebay and amazon for most of it...the enclosure I got from home depot for $30 and the wire I bought in a kit from harbor frieght as well as stock I had..
I power and control 3 DC pumps and also a rims tube so you wouldnt even need much of what I have...
Btw I have found (through advice from here) that the autotune is not even needed on the mypin if you just change the "i" setting to 1.. thay all work great for me this way without overshooting.
Click to expand...

What is the box from Home Depot? Would you mind documenting your build and basic schematic?
 
A sketch-up of the new panel lay-out. I taped the front of the enclosure this morning and should be able to start drilling holes in the next few days.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this?

panel2.0.jpg
 
I don't see any specific issues, but make sure you pay close attention to how close you are to the edge of the panel. You have to take in to account not only the whole for the component but also the associated wiring. You don't want it to get caught between the door seal and the enclosure opening.
 
Dubchedford said:
I don't see any specific issues, but make sure you pay close attention to how close you are to the edge of the panel. You have to take in to account not only the whole for the component but also the associated wiring. You don't want it to get caught between the door seal and the enclosure opening.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out. I moved things around (up and down, actually) and put them onto the enclosure.

View attachment 1428454554058.jpg
 
Looks great so far and trust me, you will LOVE it when its done!

Make sure you look into some ventilation..I see a window there but not sure if a vent hood ducting out that window is an option. Unless you want a sauna and dripping walls or an indoor weather system to form during brew day, ventilation of some sort is a must. Trust me.
Take your time during the wiring process and keep us updated. These projects turn out better when they are not "rushed".

:mug:
 
bbohanon said:
Looks great so far and trust me, you will LOVE it when its done!

Make sure you look into some ventilation..I see a window there but not sure if a vent hood ducting out that window is an option. Unless you want a sauna and dripping walls or an indoor weather system to form during brew day, ventilation of some sort is a must. Trust me.
Take your time during the wiring process and keep us updated. These projects turn out better when they are not "rushed".

:mug:
Click to expand...

Thanks! Right now I have a stainless 220 cfm vent hood from the old kitchen that I plan to mount and vent out that window. If that's not enough, I'll come up with something using a 400 cfm inline fan.

The build has been very slow so far and likely won't move any faster. I just want to have it all done before the cold weather comes back in the fall.
 
bbohanon said:
Looks great so far and trust me, you will LOVE it when its done!

Make sure you look into some ventilation..I see a window there but not sure if a vent hood ducting out that window is an option. Unless you want a sauna and dripping walls or an indoor weather system to form during brew day, ventilation of some sort is a must. Trust me.
Take your time during the wiring process and keep us updated. These projects turn out better when they are not "rushed".

:mug:
Click to expand...

Quick question, if i built this in my garage and just opened the garage door during my brew day would that be sufficient to keep things relatively dry? I'd probably put a box fan or something blowing around...
 
FuzzeWuzze said:
Quick question, if i built this in my garage and just opened the garage door during my brew day would that be sufficient to keep things relatively dry? I'd probably put a box fan or something blowing around...
Click to expand...

I've brewed in my garage before without any problems, but, it's an unfinished space with a leaky roof anyway. I wouldn't brew in a finished space without adequate ventilation.
 
spartybrews said:
Unfortunately, no. Life has taken over at the moment. I'm hoping to have it ready to go by September.
Click to expand...

I totally get life getting in the way man..It took me 4-5 months to get my brewshed project done. I went into it with the assumption it would take me 2 times as long as my target date to get done due to life happening..I was 100% right.
Take your time and get it done when you can. Just don't let it completely fall off the radar.
:rockin::fro::mug:
 
Where did you get that panel from at HD? I have been looking at HD and Lowe's and haven't seen anything like that.

augiedoggy said:
you have many options...I sugest using the mypin "TD4" model pid which has manual mode everything the auber will do for half the cost.... They are usually about $25 shipped... The manual mode replaced the need to use a knob for manual but if you really want a knob you can add an ssrv and potentiometer like this one which I have used

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140553987088?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

4500w is really way more than enough for 10gallons or less...just be sure to use ULWD for the boil element.
switches and sensors can be had for about 50-75% less than the distributors in the states that stock them if you order them direct from china where they are almost all made.

I built my panel for under $300 using ebay and amazon for most of it...the enclosure I got from home depot for $30 and the wire I bought in a kit from harbor frieght as well as stock I had..
I power and control 3 DC pumps and also a rims tube so you wouldnt even need much of what I have...
Btw I have found (through advice from here) that the autotune is not even needed on the mypin if you just change the "i" setting to 1.. thay all work great for me this way without overshooting.
Click to expand...
 

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