Classic Style Smoked Beer All Grain - Big Smoked Porter

Hello all. The purpose of this thread is to get input on taking a smoked porter recipe, adding more grain (to relax the smoky taste and increase the mouth feel and abv) and changing the yeast. I am going to list the original recipe and then what I wanted to change. I value your input.

Original Grain Recipe:
8lb 2-Row Brewers Malt
3lb Cherry Wood Smoked Malt
8oz Black Malt
4oz Caramel 120
4oz Chocolate Malt

My 3 hop additions:
1oz Brewers Gold
.5oz Northern Brewer
.5oz Brewers Gold

Yeast:
WLP001
-----------------------------------------------

I was thinking about adding 2 more lbs 2-Row, 1 more lb Chocolate, and .5lb Caramel 10. Then Changing the yeast to something else that will both ferment well in 66-68deg temp and add more mouth feel to the beer. In my secondary I was also going to add 2 vanilla beans. Hops I was thinking about keeping that the same.


Please comment on my grain addition, vanilla addition, and also a different yeast. I do not want to comment much because I rather hear feedback w/o me commenting in this initial post. ABV is not something I am worrying about now, as I want to run a recipe and then tweak things later in the year.

All feedback is welcome. Please give any advice.

Your grainbill is remarkably similar to mine in a 5gal robust porter where I wanted just a hint of smoke:

6# 2-row
3# cherrywood smoked
1# C60L
0.5# Chocolate malt (350L)
0.5# Black patent (500L)

There is a recent thread about smoked malt in porters/stouts that might help you decide how much of the smoked malt to use:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/use-smaoked-malt-stouts-porters-511254/

For me (Cliff's Notes) that was enough that, 3-4 weeks after bottling, some called it "very" smoky while others (including me) considered it "just a hint." Now 10 weeks after bottling, all call it "just a hint."

I mashed at 154F and used Nottingham yeast (which I think gave a very nice, subtle ester that really worked well) at 68F, and got 77% AA (OG 1.060, FG 1.014). I know that any American Ale yeast would have attenuated more than I wanted for this recipe, and probably have been too clean to add anything.

(I know you did not ask about hops, but I used 1oz Chinook at 60min, 1oz Chinook at 5min, and 2oz Mt Hood at flameout; calc's to about 42IBU)

So what would I do differently next time?

If I wanted to make it more obviously a smoked porter, I'd increase the cherrywood smoked by a pound or two (from 30% to 40-50% of the grainbill). If I wanted it more subtle from the get-go, I'd reduce by 1-1.5 lb (to 15-20% of the grainbill). Your add of 2-3# more total grains makes 3# cherrywood into 23-25% of the grainbill, which might just be right on, especially if you are wanting to age this batch a bit. (Age will relax the smoky taste for sure)

I think my recipe needs just a little more mouthfeel. I see your plan addresses that with 0.5# C10L, I think I'd try flaked barley or flaked oats instead, as I think that would also add a welcome "silkiness". I might also use a slightly less attenuative English yeast.

I think increasing my chocolate malt would help, too. There was a distinct mocha coffee note early after bottling that I'd have liked to stay stronger for longer. I'd increase from 0.5# to 1# (which is about what you're planning).

My porter has some lingering sweetness to it, but that too I'd like to increase slightly. Next time I'd maybe mash a little higher (155-156), definitely use a little less early hopping, and maybe switch from Chinook to Columbus (to try to get a touch of "licorice"-y spice). I think the vanilla beans will be good for that perception of sweet, too.

Hope that helps out.

Thank you for all of that. I think I will go w/ 1/2lb flaked oats, 2 more lbs of 2row, 1/2 lb more chocolate malt - You made a lot of sense saying I should go w/ the oats (thanks).

Now for the yeast. Any exact specifics? And your hops, what do you recommend for my use case? I am a malt demon, not a rabbit. You think I should swap the brewers gold out w/ something else?

For the yeast, I'd try S-04 or WLP-007 next time. I'd expect a bit less attenuation, a bit more body and sweetness, and a little more ester, all of which I think would be good.

As for hops, I was kinda going for an American/English hybrid thing with the Am hops and the Eng yeast. Many of the smoked porter recipes I researched used assertive Am hops (for bittering), but even though I am a hophead I still think I used too much and too harsh a hop in Chinook. I'd prob do 1oz CTZ and 2oz Mt Hood next time. I do think that if you don't want the hops to be such a focus, then N Brewer, Perle and Willamette also show up in many of these types of recipes.

Also, if you are truly a malt demon, maybe instead of 2# more of 2-row, use some Vienna and Munich malts, maybe even some biscuit/victory malt. Maybe even go with 6# 2-row and 4# of some mix of Vienna, Munich and biscuit malts instead of 10# 2-row.

Man, now I want to brew another smoked porter!

agrazela said:

For the yeast, I'd try S-04 or WLP-007 next time. I'd expect a bit less attenuation, a bit more body and sweetness, and a little more ester, all of which I think would be good.

As for hops, I was kinda going for an American/English hybrid thing with the Am hops and the Eng yeast. Many of the smoked porter recipes I researched used assertive Am hops (for bittering), but even though I am a hophead I still think I used too much and too harsh a hop in Chinook. I'd prob do 1oz CTZ and 2oz Mt Hood next time. I do think that if you don't want the hops to be such a focus, then N Brewer, Perle and Willamette also show up in many of these types of recipes.

Also, if you are truly a malt demon, maybe instead of 2# more of 2-row, use some Vienna and Munich malts, maybe even some biscuit/victory malt. Maybe even go with 6# 2-row and 4# of some mix of Vienna, Munich and biscuit malts instead of 10# 2-row.

Man, now I want to brew another smoked porter!

Click to expand...

Ha thanks for that. Maybe another lb of 2row and some amber malt. I don't know how much. I already have 8lbs of 2row (so I am just adding to things). I found some extra grains around, but have them around for some time. I tasted it and I don't see why it wouldn't be good. I have an efficiency issue with my new system so I rather have extra grain. What is your viewpoint?

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/crisp-amber-malt.html

Spread 2 or 3 lbs of your 2 row on a baking sheet in a 300f oven for 20 to 30 min. Should amber it right up, supposedly to about 20L.

What is your viewpoint on adding 3lbs of maris otter? Then 1/2lb oats, and maybe some more 120? ...then call it a day? I don't think getting too complex w/ this is the right way to go.

732Brewer said:

What is your viewpoint on adding 3lbs of maris otter? Then 1/2lb oats, and maybe some more 120? ...then call it a day? I don't think getting too complex w/ this is the right way to go.

Click to expand...

Agreed, keep it simple.
I'd do nothing but add the 1/2lb of oats and change the base malt to all maris otter. If you were intent on adding specialties, add some additional chocolate.

a good question is actually what FG you ended up at in the first place.

732Brewer said:

Hello all. The purpose of this thread is to get input on taking a smoked porter recipe, adding more grain (to relax the smoky taste and increase the mouth feel and abv) and changing the yeast. I am going to list the original recipe and then what I wanted to change. I value your input.

Original Grain Recipe:
8lb 2-Row Brewers Malt
3lb Cherry Wood Smoked Malt
8oz Black Malt
4oz Caramel 120
4oz Chocolate Malt

My 3 hop additions:
1oz Brewers Gold
.5oz Northern Brewer
.5oz Brewers Gold

Yeast:
WLP001
-----------------------------------------------

I was thinking about adding 2 more lbs 2-Row, 1 more lb Chocolate, and .5lb Caramel 10. Then Changing the yeast to something else that will both ferment well in 66-68deg temp and add more mouth feel to the beer. In my secondary I was also going to add 2 vanilla beans. Hops I was thinking about keeping that the same.
.

Click to expand...

If I were you, I would lose the black malt. That acrid character is just going to push up against the smoke. I usually add 1/4 lb or so of roasted barley; the roast and smoke notes go hand in hand, especially with the cherry smoke. If you want assertive smokiness, I'd keep the smoked malt at 30% or higher, but instead of adding more MO, think about adding some munich to ~15% to get some body and maltiness. The suggestion of flaked barley is spot on; I'd go with 8-10%. Crystal malt isn't really necessary IMO, especially with the added munich. I kept mine at about 6%, using 80L. Add enough chocolate as you need to get the color you want. I mash at 152.

Yeast - go with WLP004. Its perfect.

Good luck!

My issue is that it is already mixed. I was going to take out a lb or two and keep it for something else to throw into. I'm trying to make it so I don't toss it all away, and figure out how to make due. The black malt I wish I could take out. So maybe the answer is the oats and Munich over the otter?

732Brewer said:

My issue is that it is already mixed. I was going to take out a lb or two and keep it for something else to throw into. I'm trying to make it so I don't toss it all away, and figure out how to make due. The black malt I wish I could take out. So maybe the answer is the oats and Munich over the otter?

Click to expand...

Oh Right ok. Scratch the Otter then, whioch is a shame, cos when I changed my Base to otter, it became remarkably thicker.
Go with the 1/2lb oats and munich. As your increasing the Malts and OG, would it not be worth keeping a similar %age of Smoked malt, to keep that lovely flavour in there?

So everything went quite well. I took out 1lb of my mixed grain (from the initial forum post), then added 5lbs Munich and .5lb oats. Came out around 1.058 (I forget the exact number, as knowing I would be over 6.5% abv was what I was wanting). I would assume this is going to bottle at around 7%, as I boiled off a gallon (my new sparge setup worked better then expected). This week coming I will make a vanilla extract with 3 beans (in some vodka) and will add it to the secondary (or 2 beans to the secondary and then 1 to the keg - not sure yet, as I want to age this out a few months kegged).