The GaP (Grocery and Produce) Beer Experiment

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I think this is a great thread, and very interesting. I have no idea what it tasted like, but my late uncle used to make what he called beer from sliced raw potatos, sugar, raisins water and yeast. I don't recall that he cooked it...but it was around 46 years ago, so I might not remember it exactly. I'd like to try a GaP at some point, but don't think I want to try the potats and raisins brew.
 
Has anyone though of using alfalfa sprouts in your mash? I don't know how much converting power they actually have, but I know they contain at least some amylase. Maybe someone could do a test mash to see what kind of conversion they get? or maybe someone with better googling skills than myself could find out how much enzyme is actually in the sprouts?
 
Unlike a Bull said:
Has anyone though of using alfalfa sprouts in your mash? I don't know how much converting power they actually have, but I know they contain at least some amylase. Maybe someone could do a test mash to see what kind of conversion they get? or maybe someone with better googling skills than myself could find out how much enzyme is actually in the sprouts?
Click to expand...

I'm not having luck either, I got excited when I found a pdf file, but it was less technical than I would have hoped....

but it occurred to me that they are some of the easiest seeds to sprout at home..I wonder then if it would be as easy to malt them..by halting the process mid sprout and then following the traditional malting of barley process...

And if so, would they then behave like two-row and help convert the other stuff you mash with it later?

Aussie Craftbrewer radio started something interesting a few years back, but sorta died out...they were going to attempt to brew a "bush beer" using malted native grass seed and indigenous plants as bittering agents...

They also are able to do some interesting things with unmalted storebought wheat flour, in the tropical flower wit recipe they talk about as well...

They have interesting stuff in their archives, they have a combined 60 years of brewing experience.

CraftBrewer Radio


Interesting tack.....:mug:
 
So I had a glass of my test batch of molasses, strawberry jam, corn sugar and christmas spices.

It was good, even still. The spices are very dominant but you still get that burnt taste from the molasses and a small hint of strawberry. I think I might make a few more gallons of this in the future.
 
Arneba28 said:
So I had a glass of my test batch of molasses, strawberry jam, corn sugar and christmas spices.

It was good, even still. The spices are very dominant but you still get that burnt taste from the molasses and a small hint of strawberry. I think I might make a few more gallons of this in the future.
Click to expand...

sounds tasty!!!
 
Careful folks, don't let Yuri Rage see this thread or he may have a temper tantrum and close it down for fear of too much free thinking.

Apparently anyone trying to make any kind of fermented beverage with anything other than hops, barley, and brewers yeast, is "on the ragged edge of simply making hooch"
 
mrhead said:
Careful folks, don't let Yuri Rage see this thread or he may have a temper tantrum and close it down for fear of too much free thinking.

Apparently anyone trying to make any kind of fermented beverage with anything other than hops, barley, and brewers yeast, is "on the ragged edge of simply making hooch"
Click to expand...

For such a new member, you are making quite a name for yourself! The GAP experiment was, just that, an experiment to press common grocery store items into service in making a quaffable beverage, not as you stated in your other thread, 'something effective' in getting a cheap buzz.
 
mrhead said:
Apparently anyone trying to make any kind of fermented beverage with anything other than hops, barley, and brewers yeast, is "on the ragged edge of simply making hooch"
Click to expand...

No, the rules of this challenge clearly state that we are making a beer like beverage...There's a big difference between this and making pruno for a cheap high.

This challenge is about pushing our skills as brewers, attempting to convert starch from unmalted grain and grainlike products, into sugar. Finding alternative bittering methods and harvesting yeast, using wild yeasts or other methods.

Besides this thread is at least a year old and has something like 10,000 views IIRC, and was at the top of the newposts lists for a couple of months solid, if the mods had a problem with it it would have happened a long time ago.

I don't know what your issue is, but don't bring it here. Most of us in this thread agree with the mods "no-hooch" threads policies, respect mods like Yuri, and would back them up anyday.
 
I have tired this with ingredants from my local walkmart... useing corn syrup and malted oats (A breakfast cerial)... mashed frosted wheat... and used oak tea as a bittering agent, also a packet of red star champagne yeast (which was in the bread making section).... I made this way back when and didnt like it all that much but sombody might try it... you have to work pretty hard to clear it becasue the oatmeal turned it a heavy milky white color... My friend called it "Chunky Whale Speam Oat Ale"... i doubted it "Eternal Oat Ale" because you could brew it over and over again with the same mash and consistantly get the same brew each time for 6 consecutive batches, just alot clearer eachtime... i think i might play with this while i wait for time to pass on my Lager, my Apfelwine, High ABV cider, and Meade... my fermenters aer kind all filled with longer term commitment... I need to buy more ;)

Cheers
 
I'm completely interested in this thread.

Shortly after I started brewing again I looked around to see what could be "fermented" into a beer-like beverage. Still looking for the ingredients, have a few in mind... but I think I might "break the rules" and add a percentage of Goya Malta to get closer to a beer-like beverage, since it is available in my grocery store.

Since I'm considering using a portion of malta, might stick with Spanish ingredients. sweet potatoes, rice, corn, beans, fruits & spices

It's really funny for me, because the last time I brewed I only used "traditional" ingredients... never even considered using a rice or corn (even primed with malt extract) let alone a POTATO! Guess I'm just gearing up for the zombie-apocalypse!

Need to find a Glass gallon jug and a stopper w/ airlock hole as I really don't want to brew more than a gallon of this, but will be a very cool experiment.
 
starrfish said:
Need to find a Glass gallon jug and a stopper w/ airlock hole as I really don't want to brew more than a gallon of this, but will be a very cool experiment.
Click to expand...

Buy a gallon jug of the bottom-shelf wine at the grocery store. Choke it down or use it for cooking. The bottles work well.
 
Hopsalot:

Revvy said:
This challenge is about pushing our skills as brewers, attempting to convert starch from unmalted grain and grainlike products, into sugar. Finding alternative bittering methods and harvesting yeast, using wild yeasts or other methods.
Click to expand...
"Official" rules are posted early on on page

KingBrianI:
LOL a gallon of cheap wine might taste good compared to the beer-like substance that I might come up with...:drunk:
 
starrfish said:
Hopsalot:

"Official" rules are posted early on on page

KingBrianI:
LOL a gallon of cheap wine might taste good compared to the beer-like substance that I might come up with...:drunk:
Click to expand...

Here's the rules post from page 1

Ok Rules Post!!
#1 Anything from the grocery store can be used
#2 Juice can only be used if its in conjunction with other ingredients, No meads, ciders or wines.
#3 Yeast, Harvesting from a bottle is ok but you have to step it up using things from the store, no dme or dextrose in a starter.
#4 No hops, Alternative bittering agents should be used.!

Come on people lets see some cereal mashing. maybe some vegetable beers?
Click to expand...
 
starrfish said:
Hopsalot:

KingBrianI:
LOL a gallon of cheap wine might taste good compared to the beer-like substance that I might come up with...:drunk:
Click to expand...


Damn I know my first batch was horrible, $40 worth of ingredients and I just ended up with a f-ed up 6gal pot, a really dirty kitchen and I beverage that tasted like flour and burned sugar with 2%abv.. It was my first attempt after all.

I was thinking about a possible canned sweet potato wine though.:confused:
 
OK now that I'm moved, I'm going to give this another go. I'm thinking something with potatoes and wheaties. Possibly aspirin for the bittering. I still have no idea what I'm going to use for converting the starches to sugars though.
 
not to mention that in the presence of water aspirin degrades to salicylic acid and acetic acid(vinegar), not a good flavor for most beers.
 
Aspirin is not what you're thinking of king. Most major pain relievers aren't recommended for alcohol, but for different reasons. Aspirin messes with your stomach.

Tylenol is the big one for your liver, it can do quite a bit of damage.
 
hmm, your idea of malting alfalfa gave me an idea Revvy. Or maybe more of a recollection? When I was younger I had parakeets as pets. often times, their food bowl would get cleaned by dumping it into the yard, hosing it off and refilling it with fresh food. I soon found that new and strange grasses would grow where their seeds were dumped.

I'm thinking I can find some bird food hopefully without preservatives at my local grocer, and sort out the smaller millet seeds with a spaghetti strainer. Said seeds could then be soaked in water overnight, and placed between two moist paper towels until sprouts or rootlets appear and then slightly roasted to halt growth. If i understand correctly, that should give me malted millet with some pretty good enymatic power.

I'm thinking of making a one gallon batch of this millet beer using 2 lbs of millet (i'll take 8 ozs of the malted millet and continue roasting it until it's approximately the color of chocolate malt.) I will use 1 oz of rolled oats and also roast until chocolately looking. I will do a step infusion mash until iodine test shows full conversion, or 90 minutes has elapsed. 8 ozs of decaf coffee will be added post boil for bittering. I'm thinking I'll want to harvest yeast from SN pale ale to ferment with. I'll use malta as a starter for the yeast. I also think I'll call it "bird brain porter" or "I poured it down the sink".

I took some inspiration from this page Life's a Garden...Dig It!: Malting Gluten-free Grains

Problems: I have never done AG before, and this seems like a pretty difficult place to start. But, i think it might be a good jumping off point because of the small volume (though this will make temp regulation more difficult) and I won't really be worried about if this comes out tasting good or not. I'll really just be hoping for full conversion of starches.

I don't really know what kind of SG to expect from millet. I've found that uncooked, and unmalted it has slightly more starch per lb than barley, but that's about it. I don't really know the bittering power of coffee either. I really just kind of guessed.

i don't know if little millet hulls will form a decent filter. I may have to use corn husks.

If I don't get starch conversion, I won't know if it's something I did in the malting process, or my mashing as I have no precedent to say that my mashing should have worked.

Finally, I won't be able to get around to this until spring break (WOOO!) because school takes up so much of my time. I think before then though I can work on harvesting SNPA yeast and just store it in the fridge.

Any help/insight from the more experienced brewers would be much appreciated. Sorry for the long post.
 
Found this over the weekend at the local piggly wiggly grocery store:
Food For Life Ezekiel 4:9 Organic Sprouted Grain Cereal, Golden Flax in a 16oz box

Key words "Organic 'Sprouted Grain' Cereal" I think i've found a usable base grain, along with sweet potato, rice, corn grits, maybe some cornstarch, and brown sugar if gravity is way low.

will spice with fresh ginger, and asian 5 spice powder with some crushed peppercorns for bitter. I picked up some "malta" Only going to use a few 7 oz bottles to get closer to a beer-like finished product. (cheating I know, but I have to get rid of it since i bought it, stuff is pretty awful on it's own.)

Bought some whole-grain bread yeast, but i'm only going to use this if I can't get an active fermentation from some wild yeast on some raisins.

I will be trying to culture up a Chimay yeast to see if I can use that on an upcoming Belgian triple.
 
starrfish said:
Found this over the weekend at the local piggly wiggly grocery store:
Food For Life Ezekiel 4:9 Organic Sprouted Grain Cereal, Golden Flax in a 16oz box

Key words "Organic 'Sprouted Grain' Cereal" I think i've found a usable base grain, along with sweet potato, rice, corn grits, maybe some cornstarch, and brown sugar if gravity is way low.

will spice with fresh ginger, and asian 5 spice powder with some crushed peppercorns for bitter. I picked up some "malta" Only going to use a few 7 oz bottles to get closer to a beer-like finished product. (cheating I know, but I have to get rid of it since i bought it, stuff is pretty awful on it's own.)

Bought some whole-grain bread yeast, but i'm only going to use this if I can't get an active fermentation from some wild yeast on some raisins.

I will be trying to culture up a Chimay yeast to see if I can use that on an upcoming Belgian triple.
Click to expand...

Sounds cool!!! Take pictures.

:mug:
 
Food for Life product info

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* Flourless,
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We discovered when these six grains and legumes are sprouted and combined, an amazing thing happens. A complete protein is created that closely parallels the protein found in milk and eggs. In fact, the protein quality is so high, that it is 84.3% as efficient as the highest recognized source of protein, containing all 9 essential amino acids. There are 18 amino acids present in this unique bread – from all vegetable sources – naturally balanced in nature.

Ezekiel 4:9® Bread, made from freshly sprouted organically grown grains, is naturally flavorful and bursting with nutrients. Rich in protein, vitamins, minerals and natural fiber with no added fat. Try it served warm to release its exceptionally rich nutty flavor.
 
I am new here and have only brewed kit beers & wine but I have a suggestion for conversion. Papaya fruit has enzyme that breaks down starch. How about a can of papaya necter or some papaya fruit?
 
Okay I overlooked this thread when it was in its prime but boredom got the best of me today and I read it all.

Wow! I cannot believe you folks are so dead set on not trying the obvious! Beano? Come on! If my grocery store has it surely others do, I am in a pretty rural area. Why not buy some of this?

BRM-50fb57319f4731806b7b43b378dcd48b.jpg


and malt it? Okay yeah it is "hulless" ,which actually means it has a thinner easier to digest husk. You could find something else to aid in sparging though surely.

they also have:
BRM-4892dd3a5ded05e4907014f62be72367.jpg


and many other varieties of wheat and other grains you could malt!

Heck, even the joblots store has Bob's redmill stuff!

Or perhaps I missed something and you are against using grain?


As to the Koji kin (Aspergillus Oryzae) you won't find that in a regular grocery store. You might in an Asian market. You also won't be able to get it from just rice either. Rice you buy in the store is polished and processed. If there ever where any koji spores on the rice it would be gone. Additionally you need to steam the rice and then sprinkle the spores on the warm rice. Steaming it would kill it. It is a mold you can grow on rice and it is used in a symbiotic relationship with yeast to ferment. Essentially the mold breaks down and converts the rice starch simultaneously and the yeast then eats it.

There is another enzyme of which I do not know the scientific name that you could grow. There is a drink in Korea that is similar to sake but uses an enzyme called nuruk (pronounced new rook with the r pronounced as if you are about to make an l sound) which is a mold that grows on wheat. I have made it and I have also bought it at a Korean market. It smells like fermented sweaty socks! Take some whole wheat berries and crack them. Mix them in some warm water to make a rough dough. Wrap it in cheesecloth and let it sit for about 3 days in a warm place (80F or so). It should form a mold and will have dried out. Crush it up into a powder. You can then use it to ferment some steamed rice with yeast. It is a highly acquired taste and is like drinking cold (as it is served cold) slightly carbonated alcoholic sweet porridge! I actually like it when made right.

How this would help you folks I don't know as both koji-kin and nuruk only work on rice as far as I know. i don't think they will convert other grains.
 
I live in a pretty big city, and I've never seen any type of whole grain besides corn in any of the stores, of course I haven't looked in whole-foods yet, but the big chains don't carry anything like that here. and I've tried bean-o before, bad times, didn't work very well.
 
Freezeblade said:
I live in a pretty big city, and I've never seen any type of whole grain besides corn in any of the stores, of course I haven't looked in whole-foods yet, but the big chains don't carry anything like that here. and I've tried bean-o before, bad times, didn't work very well.
Click to expand...

My local supermarket is a chain but they aren't known for having anything too "wild". The "ethnic food" section is a quarter of an aisle and has such exotic things as taco shells, and canned chop suey. Okay it ain't that bad but it is not really that great. They do have that goya drink.

Point is, they also have a "health food" section which has the Bob's Redmill products. it is a nationally distributed product I am fairly certain. Comes from the Ozarks in MO. A big City like Sand Diego ought to have something like that if bumblefork Northeastern Vermont does. Did I mention there is a town not too far from me that did not have electricity until the 1960's?
;)
 
Zymurgrafi said:
How this would help you folks I don't know as both koji-kin and nuruk only work on rice as far as I know. i don't think they will convert other grains.
Click to expand...

Why would you think that? The main enzyme produced by Aspergillus oryzae is alpha amylase, which will happily convert starch from any source.

As regards nuruk: the main difference between nuruk and koji is that koji is produced by a controlled fermentation based on a pure culture of Aspergillus oryzae, while nuruk is spontaneously fermented and contains a wide range of microorganisms. A study[0] found that nuruk typically contains Aspergillus oryzae, Aspergillus niger, and Rhizopus, as well as various bacteria and yeasts.

Another option which I explored (I did a small test batch to test its viability, but haven't yet done a full-scale batch) is Monascus purpureus, which is another amylolytic mold. It's found on red yeast rice, which I obtained from my local Asian grocer in dried form and used it and a packet of dry yeast to inoculate a batch of steamed rice. Cooperative fermentation between the mold, yeast, and some opportunistic Lactobacilli produced a tangy, mildly alcoholic beverage that happened to be pink.

[0] Kim, C.J. 1968. Microbiological and enzymological studies on Takju brewing. J. Korean Agricul. Chem. Soc., 60. 69-99.
 
My oat beers are flopping. In reality all I am trying to do is ferment the starches in the oats. My last batch which I flavoured with ginger tasted of watery ginger without the slightest sign of a head. My ginger ale tasted much nicer.

For me it's a big learning curve but I am learning.

At my supermarket they sell quinoa. So I am going to try germinating and then malting quinoa, corn and soya. I don't think the corn actually contains the enzyme, but generally speaking natural corn is so sweet anyway it might be worth just mashing a tin of sweet corn (no additives) (and caramelising some for colour).

A couple of the links I followed on here showed it was possible to germinate and malt rice and quinoa and that any extra grain such as the oats need to be added at the malting stage so their starches are converted by the acting enzyme. OK so I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks so this is all new to me.

And if the japanese are using soya I want to know how.

As for the zombie apocalypse, isn't it likely the zombies will congregate in the stores and prevent us from obtaining produce.
 
Ok brewed mine (pics to come)
Cultured yeast from 3 bottles of homebrew Using 3-4 oz of malta goya (couldn't bring myself to use bread yeast esp. considering the price of the cereal!!!)

2 lbs sprouted grain breakfast cereal - mash 1.5 hours 155°
.75lb sweet potato - cooked 30 min and added to mash
.25lb rice - cooked 30 min and added to mash
.25 grits - cooked 30 min and added to mash
1/4 cup cornstarch - cooked 30 min and added to mash
1/4 cup brown sugar - added to boil
3 7oz bottles of Malta Goya - added to boil (added a nice malty color)
1 TBS crushed peppercorns (white green red and black) 60 min
1 tsp asian 5 spice powder 30 min
.25 oz ginger 15 min
1/4 tsp asian 5 spice powder 5 min
3 small boxes raisins (for wild yeast)
Cultured yeast from 3 bottles of homebrew

mash still registered deep purple with iodine test after 1 1/2 hours at 155°. sparged it and moved on to boil
Took forever to boil down to 1 gallon

OG 1.047

between the raisins and the cultured yeast, fermentation started in less than 24 hours

Blowing a VERY fruity smell from jug.

OG 1.047
FG: to come
Anticipating between 4.0 and 4.5% ABV

Might Actually come out drinkable. Wort was slightly peppery, slightly malty and a unidentifiable fruitiness. wort was THICK. Thick junk is settling out as fermentation runs on.
 
PICS of Zombie Apocalypto

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Should have probably strained this through a muslin bag or coffee filter... will loose a good amount to the sludge... But smells really nice fermenting away.

Might try this again using real malts and some hops, but keep spice mix if comes out ok. Still going strong, probably take at LEAST another week or two until bottle.

Will prime with brown sugar... 1/5 of a cup +/-
 
I gotta say the fermenting pictures, with the raisins floating on the surface have to be some of the most discusting pics I have ever seen it kinds looks like eyeballs, or other body parts...

It looks like something that zombies would drinks. :D


I cant wait to see, hear how this ends up.

:mug:
 

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