You Guys doing a first all grain.........

I see a lot of first time brewers doing some compliced or weird brews. Your first all grain should be BEER. I say this because as I see it you should be rewarded by making a beer that you can rave about and not get discouraged by. It should be a beer that makes you come back for more. If this means that just a simple beer is made then you have eliminated a lot of the things that can wreck it! You would be suprised that just a two row can make a nice beer (with the right hops)that can be wonderful. It has to be aged and not consumed before it is time. If you like Cascades then this should be the hop of choice. If you like German then choose german hops (Saaz and Hallertur). What I am trying to say here is not to muddy the waters with all sorts of other grains, honey, or adjuncts until you see what plain malted grain can do as this is the essence of beer.

Mash it correctly, sparge it well, keep it sanitary and you will be rewarded with exceptional beer. Too often brewers want to use unknown additions to brews and then wonder why it has a weird taste. KISS IS THE WAY TO GO UNTIL YOU MASTER WHAT YOU ARE DOING. I am not trying to act like a know it all but to try to help other brewers realize that when you are new to something you should go ahead with caution. Known recipes give known results if brewed correctly. Unknown recipes are another matter entirely.

I'm no expert on the matter, but I did recently switch to AG and this seems like sound advice. My first AG batch was EdWort's Haus Pale (which seems to be a very popular choice for making the jump) - it was very straightforward to make, and from the very first pint, I knew I'd never be brewing extract again if I could help it. I think this recipe was more forgiving - it's hoppy but not extreme, so you can miss your OG (which is almost inevitable, not knowing your efficiency the first time) and it'll still be a perfectly fine pale ale.

Since then I've done a dry stout, an ESB, and a scottish - all middle-of-the-road, straightforward brews as well, and I've loved every minute (and pint) of it.

I looked at my first AG as an opportunity to work out the kinks with a new system & process...to that end, an ordinary bitter was just the ticket and it did reveal a few flaws that required attention.

I disagree. I think you should start right off with a barley wine, sour mash, or parti-gyle just to get the hang of it. Then you can work on refining your techniques.

AG teaches you that simple brews aren't so simple. A simple Extract is just dumping DME and hops in water. A simple AG typically takes just as much work as a complex AG.

Cheesefood said:

AG teaches you that simple brews aren't so simple. A simple Extract is just dumping DME and hops in water. A simple AG typically takes just as much work as a complex AG.

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But using a simple well designed recipe with few ingredieants, single infusion mash and batch sparge does make it easier.

I think once you have your set up and figures worked out a simple AG is simple.

At the very least, take a recipe that has been proven to work or buy a kit. A lot of guys want to start inventing their own recipes (myself included) before they know what the hell they're doing. For some reason, this coincides with a first AG. When the beer is sub par, you don't know whether you suck at AG, recipe construction or both.

I actually did simple beers with extract, when I did my first ag (brew #4) I made up my own recipe (first time, was a porter) and it was quite complicated, but it turned out to be an excellent beer that I was VERY proud of. If you want to dive in head first, then do it, I say! My second AG was a hefe ( no stuck sparge, no rice hulls ). Half the joy for me is creating something I put together from the bottom, up..

... my 2 cents

After doing just a few AG brews myself, I agree. Don't get too complicated: no protein rests, no step mashes or decoctions.

And don't try to create a recipe, unless you're taking an existing one and tweaking it just a little, like rounding the grain bill up because the LHBS only sells in certain increments, or because you can't get the exact hops called for, but can sub a similar alpha acid level hop.

you've got to learn how to walk before you can run. plus you've got to learn the ins and outs of your particular brewery, including rate of evaporation during the boil, loss due to deadspace, and your brewhouse efficiency.

that's a lot to try to juggle on your first AG.

malkore said:

After doing just a few AG brews myself, I agree. Don't get too complicated: no protein rests, no step mashes or decoctions.

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Now I do agree 100% with that. I was (and still am) a straight forward, single infusion, batch sparger. Someday I'll do the fly sparge thing, but right now I have to work with the equipment I have.

Yah, if I had it to do over I wouldn't have pushed quite so far with my first AG probably.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for PM brewers to be running make believe rests instead of just steeping at a strike temperature ~~if they want to think about maybe doing AG someday.

You aren't going to hurt anything if you are supposed to be steeping at 155° with some DME waiting on the counter - but you dough in at 100, wait ten minutes, pour in some boiling water looking for 122°...

OTOH I picked up a book of winning recipes that I am planning to stick to for a while before I go out on a limb again...

My first AG will be an Ordinary Bitter, a classic style.... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=41983&highlight=ordinary+bitter

Just waiting for my keggle and 50' chiller!

Here's my 2-cents on beginners all-grain. Start simple, fewer ingrediants, the better. Learn your equipment, get into the rythm of AG brewing: heating the strike water, getting the single-fusion temp right, sparging, boiling the entire wort, wort chilling...etc.

Here's the story and recipe for my first AG brew. I called it "Catastrophic Failure." I've brewed this several times since, refining the recipe to use American or English base malt and adding a 1/2 lb of wheat malt for head retention...I even use the "cheap" yeast and whatever hops I have left or from the garden.

Ingredients: 8.5 lbs-ish of English 2-Row Pale Ale Malt
2.5 OZ total hops: Cascade 6.5%-alpha. (1oz boiling, .75oz flavor, .75oz aroma.)
Yeast: Wyeast 2112, California Lager
1/2 tspn Irish Moss (finings)
Original Gravity (O.G.) 1.040

OK, so why the name, "Catastrophic Failure (aka: Dutch Boy's Revenge)?" After I doughed-in the grains with the water, the mash temp was still a little high, so I drew off some wort to chill and add back in. After recirculating a couple of quarts, I notice a 'drip-drip-drip' coming from the tube at the bottom of the mash/lauter tun. When I went to push the hose in, it came out with hot wort pouring all over me!!! New Orleans' Ninth Ward got's nothing on me. I struggled to get the hose back in!!! I grabbed a bucket to catch the flowing wort. In good Dutch-boy fashion, I used my finger to plug the hole. Let me tell you: 155 deg water is HOT!!! When I got the tube in, I used a hot glue gun to seal the leak.

My buddy showed up right after I got done sealing the leak, saw the mess everywhere and asked what happened. While he missed all the "fun," his help was absolutely vital to the rest of process, especially when lifting hot sparging water!

Luckily, this happened early in the process. After I recycled what was lost and added some more grains, the rest of the mash went well. We relaxed and had some hot coffee and cold homebrew. Sparged off around 6.5 or so gallons, boiled for about 90 min. Chilling the wort with the rather nifty copper tube coil worked like a champ. Ended up with 4.5 gallon of wort in the fermenter. We pitched the yeast and are waiting for for activity.

1 Week primary; 1 week secondary, then bottle. Tune in to hear how it went at the homebrew competition and what it tastes like.

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Update on the Catastrophic Failure (Dutch Boy's Revenge) homebrew. I bottled the beer last night!!!!

I moved the beer to the secodary fermenter on Sunday. A lot more yeast dropped out in the couple of days after that. I tasted a bit of it then. Not too bad, a little hoppiness noted on the back of the toungue and no off-flavors.

Got about 40 bottles out of it. Three will go the judging team. The rest go to Brewfest for tasting.

If you live in Colorado Springs and can get to the Peterson AFB All-Hands Club, come to "Brewfest 2007" where the winners will be annoucned. There you can sample the homebrews and several local Microbreweries will be there sampling their wares (Arctic maybe?)

Gravity when racked to secondary: 1.010
Final Gravity: 1.080
Estimated Alcohol 4.5 - 5 %

My first AG was a fruit beer with real fruit, so it may have masked flaws or made it over complicated, but it's one of the best beers I've made. Had 6 people try it tonight and give me a thumbs up!

My first few attempts at AG have had mixed results. My first batch had a 58% efficiency, second had 60%, third 65%. I have been reading for months and taking notes on technique from many of the members here.

I'm having some problems getting my system dialed in. I use a 10 gal round cooler MLT. I can't seem to figure out how to calculate strike temps with this thing. I preheat it and never have more than a degree of temperature loss, but my initial temps i'm getting from calculators are much too high and I wind up having to use the hose to get my temps back down. Also the crush may be suspect as well, I don't have my own mill. Oh well Christmas is just aroudn the corner.

I did get a nice burn in my leg by carelessly backing into the burner on this last batch.

I think the OP's advice is good. Those German beer purity laws haven't been around for like 800 years for nothing.

Obviously, though, as far as homebrewers go, it's rule that's made to be broken.

Still, it's amazing what you can do with malted barley, hops, water and yeast. I think it's a good idea to get some experience under one's belt with brewing simple beer before adding all sorts of exotic ingredients or trying complex sparging techniques.

I agree that you should start simple so if something does go wrong it is easier to retrace and find where the problems(s) happened and correct them.

My first AG didn't go well. It was a simple recipe but I have a bad thermometer and too hot of strike water. I got tannins and then to make matter worse the beer because infected. Oh well that is the breaks I didn't clean well enough and check my equipment before hand. It is time to gather everything up for a new batch and start again.

My approach...

Brew what the hell you damn well please this weeekend.

Life's too short and there's always next weekend to try again...

BierMuncher said:

My approach...

Brew what the hell you damn well please this weeekend.

Life's too short and there's always next weekend to try again...

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AMEN to that.

IMO, brewing should never be complicated. I think some folks just like complicated things or like gear and micromanaging brews while others would rather just dump water and grains, drain, boil and hopify. Both methods make great beer (or can, anyway). Hard to give simultaneous advice to both engineers and artists, eh?


MM

I gotta agree with the chill out angle. Yes, if you try a complicated recipe while still trying to learn AG you are making things harder for yourself, thats just common sense. But I have been wanting to say for so long: I read so many threads in which people treat AG as if it were trying out for the Olympics or something. Its not rocket science people. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Do a little reading and most of the angles have been covered and re-hashed over and ober.

The beauty of HBT is that there is a wealth of knowledge here, if you want to learn AG, do your homework, read papazian, read palmer, read HBT. Just these sources alone are ample to get you rolling. Jump in, enjoy the hobby. Then refine. But don't be afraid.
Just my 2 cents for what thats worth.

Good thread, I don't know ****. Feel wiser already.. I have some questions, but I need to search more.. I want to AG, but small 5gal batches only.. Err... Gotta go..

El_Borracho said:

Good thread, I don't know ****. Feel wiser already.. I have some questions, but I need to search more.. I want to AG, but small 5gal batches only.. Err... Gotta go..

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Go brew, what is stopping you?

WBC said:

Go brew, what is stopping you?

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Right now, I can't spend the $ on the stuff I need. The bills are paid, just no spending cash on had. I was ready last week, a few things have come up.

100.00 (shipped) for the Begginers kit at Midwest, the one with the 6.5gal bucket, a bottling bucket, and 5gal carboy. To that I need to add an extra air-lock and a wine thief.

Afterwards, I'd need to spend at least 50 bucks for two kits. No sense in one when I can have another going the same day. Drink up!

Right now I'm seriously considering going All-Grain from the start. It's really what calls my attention most of all. So I'd save myself the 50 bucks for the two kits...but I'd have to spend it on building a mash tun, plus ingredients, and a big enough pot to boil in - turkey fryer most likely.

I'll probably end up buying the kit, and the extract kits..then for the 3rd run go AG. Dunno, the ag literature I've found is a little confusing since when they tell you stuff it tends to get mixed up with other techniques...no local brewing in Miami - that I know of.

I like what you've stated. It makes perfect sense. I want to learn to crawl, walk, and then design my own beer....actually knowing what each thing is doing and understand the flavor/aroma/textures i'm producing.

I love beer, beer loves me.

I'm going for a rectangular cooler when I get one. I'll be making 5gal batches of regular beers, once I got it down it's big beers for me. What size cooler should I start with, if I don't want to upgrade??

Or if it better to get a smaller rectangular cooler, then get a bigger one when I actually need it?

Anyone looking to sell of equipment feel free to contact me I don't need much and I'm sure someone has something to get rid of..

Afterwards, I'd need to spend at least 50 bucks for two kits. No sense in one when I can have another going the same day. Drink up!

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There is really no need for kits if you go all grain. There are plenty of recipes here on this forum. Equipment is needed but could be improvised if need be.

Right now I'm seriously considering going All-Grain from the start. It's really what calls my attention most of all. So I'd save myself the 50 bucks for the two kits...but I'd have to spend it on building a mash tun, plus ingredients, and a big enough pot to boil in - turkey fryer most likely.

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I agree, You are better off going all grain for quality and savings. Equipment is the biggest expenditure for all gain brewing. Once you have it you are saving a lot of bucks. Find someone who is quitting that is selling their stuff.

I'm going for a rectangular cooler when I get one. I'll be making 5gal batches of regular beers, once I got it down it's big beers for me. What size cooler should I start with, if I don't want to upgrade??

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Rectangular coolers are cheaper and work well if the grain bed is deep enough. Size? What ever you can afford.